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Another Innocent dead in police custody watch

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    (Original post by sammy93)
    If only people faced police brutality/ corruption when resisting arrest! What about throwing people walking down the streets (they may be 'hoodies' but I don't think that changes anything), into a police van, sticking a bag over their head, beating them up then chucking them out?

    How about lying in court and planting evidence on innocent people, so they get sentenced for terrible crimes, including murder, that they did not commit? Go on innocent.org.uk, it makes for interesting reading for people that think only criminals face this corruption.

    I used to think like you - it's much easier to bury your head in the sand. But once you've had close friends go through these situations, your perspective changes. I really think it's one of the worst things about this country - it's not even like the evidence isnt out there. Its just being ignored.

    Both of these cases have happened to people I am very close to.
    just because a few english people does drugs and wears track suit, does that make all the English a drug addict chav? No.

    Theres always 2 sides of the story, where both sides accuse of each other, thats what the court is trying to decide. Just because your friend is your friend does necessarily mean they're innocent. not that im accusing them

    (Original post by Indian_Prince)
    you restrain woth sufficient force when theres 11 of you and 1 of them, the beating was not needed....

    If 11 normal people beat a criminal theyd be the ones facing charges, the officers are obviously protected over these thing.....
    you dont even know the exact occurance. News paper articles are as one sided as the writer who edited it. Maybe you shouldnt jump into conclusions?
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    (Original post by Tut.exe)
    you dont even know the exact occurance. News paper articles are as one sided as the writer who edited it. Maybe you shouldnt jump into conclusions?
    hmm a person died, i dont see any reason for anyone to die during a arrest unless they are very old and have a heart attack or that they were going to die the instand police came, the fact of the matter is that a person did die, a 25 year old, i dont see how a young man can die unless he has been brutally beaten.
    Gangs beat up individuals all the time, even these people dont die, obviously this can show how much force must have been used by the police to take this guys life away :/

    but yeh this is just my opinion.
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    Can't help but feel anger at the police officers involved, excessive beating with batons?...*sigh*

    Such cases like this I feel like rinsing this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HSNeHHuQA4
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    So everyone saying that it's only one side of events didn't read the part where it says that it was confirmed by the IPCC or the neighbours who saw what happened.
    How can anyone every justify having 11 men gang up on one guy is beyond me. And I'm guessing that those saying it have never been stopped by a van load of police and been surrounded before.
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    (Original post by ocelotrevs)
    So everyone saying that it's only one side of events didn't read the part where it says that it was confirmed by the IPCC or the neighbours who saw what happened.
    How can anyone every justify having 11 men gang up on one guy is beyond me. And I'm guessing that those saying it have never been stopped by a van load of police and been surrounded before.
    I can only think that he must have been really out of control and a danger to himself and others then. Our police force are overstretched and understaffed as it is - I can't see why they would dispatch 11 officers to kill a random delusional guy purely for the hell of it.Probably a combination of lack of information about the suspect and the excessive amount of officers there with no one actually in charge - perhaps each officer expected that one of the others was checking to see if the suspect was still actually resisting.

    I hope that the officers involved were in the right and that no action will be necessary (apart from a review of the handling of these sorts of situations - this seems like an ideal scenario for the use of a TASER). If it turns out that they were in the wrong and that they deliberately assaulted him for no good reason (I just can't quite see why this would happen), then I hope that they get prosecuted. Simple as.

    In modern Britain very few groups of people are still subject to generalisations and stereotypes. I've seen people being told off by other posters on here for things as trivial as a post saying jokingly about someone "he looks like a mug" (generalisation associating a certain set of physical characteristics with a certain level of intelligence, apparently) - yet whenever a thread is ongoing about the police it seems to be OK to generalise and say that all officers are bent, sadistic, racist, jack-booted thugs. In the wake of an incident like this it's very easy for asinine statements to fly around - "all pics are scum" is just as bad as "he was a scumbag, probably deserved it" if we want to have a serious debate.

    The police are held to a double standard - and considering their position of authority that's quite right. But what I think is wrong is that police officers seem to be one of the only groups in society against which it is still acceptable to make broad generalisations and summary allegations. The nature of those sort of generalised makes them almost impossible for the police to respond to, and frankly I think it's damaging for society long-term to have them flying around.
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    Happens all too often. I would like to know HOW he died tbh. The hospital that he went to should know..........they treated him till he died.
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    (Original post by Agent Smirnoff)
    Happens all too often. I would like to know HOW he died tbh. The hospital that he went to should know..........they treated him till he died.
    Not really, a lot of people assume when they hear deaths in custody it means every case will be like this.
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    (Original post by TheFatController)
    I can only think that he must have been really out of control and a danger to himself and others then. Our police force are overstretched and understaffed as it is - I can't see why they would dispatch 11 officers to kill a random delusional guy purely for the hell of it.Probably a combination of lack of information about the suspect and the excessive amount of officers there with no one actually in charge - perhaps each officer expected that one of the others was checking to see if the suspect was still actually resisting.

    I hope that the officers involved were in the right and that no action will be necessary (apart from a review of the handling of these sorts of situations - this seems like an ideal scenario for the use of a TASER). If it turns out that they were in the wrong and that they deliberately assaulted him for no good reason (I just can't quite see why this would happen), then I hope that they get prosecuted. Simple as.

    In modern Britain very few groups of people are still subject to generalisations and stereotypes. I've seen people being told off by other posters on here for things as trivial as a post saying jokingly about someone "he looks like a mug" (generalisation associating a certain set of physical characteristics with a certain level of intelligence, apparently) - yet whenever a thread is ongoing about the police it seems to be OK to generalise and say that all officers are bent, sadistic, racist, jack-booted thugs. In the wake of an incident like this it's very easy for asinine statements to fly around - "all pics are scum" is just as bad as "he was a scumbag, probably deserved it" if we want to have a serious debate.

    The police are held to a double standard - and considering their position of authority that's quite right. But what I think is wrong is that police officers seem to be one of the only groups in society against which it is still acceptable to make broad generalisations and summary allegations. The nature of those sort of generalised makes them almost impossible for the police to respond to, and frankly I think it's damaging for society long-term to have them flying around.
    Good post
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    (Original post by Agent Smirnoff)
    Happens all too often.
    Your definition of 'often' is obviously different to mine. The police forces in England & Wales make around 1.5m (cba checking exactly how many) arrest per annum but deaths in custody are a tiny proportion of that figure. IIRC it's in the order of 0.005% and actually less than that in some years. Hardly evidence of a brutal, controlling and manipulative Police State is it? It really is begining to look like there are some people only to willing and ready to leap on the police brutality bandwagon whenever there is an incident like this.

    There clearly are some police officers who (ab)use the uniform for their own agenda but I really wish people would get real and realise that there very often is no smoke without fire. If "Come quietly please sir" was requested by the officer(s) and adhered to by the MoP there would be no need for forcible restraint for their own, the arrestee and other MoPs protection would there? Where stress/anxiety, drugs, alcohol and maybe even hatred an inherent dislike of the very people who are trying to arrest you come into the mix you can see how officers may have to use a bit more force to restrain someone than they ordinarily would. None of us can possibly know the physiological affect that can have on the person being arrested. Maybe, just maybe, it could even result in them dying. For people to automatically jump to the conclusion that it must be as a result of excessive violence by police officers is wrong ..... imho. If it was unjustified force then the law should apply to whoever was responsible. But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good rant eh? That's not directed at you personally btw but a general comment
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    (Original post by Mockery)
    I really dislike stories like these, they spread hatred for the police force therefore leading to people in this country forgetting how good, disciplined and decent the members of our police force are compared to pretty much all others across the planet.

    The guy who died shouldn't have been getting involved in trouble in the first place, and the article is from the viewpoint of the parents who are indefinatly going to look at the police in dismay.

    Yes it isn't nice he died, but really, these things happen and the police don't deserve the amount of stick they will recieve from the public because of this story and others.
    What, accept that people die in police custody as something that ain't worth our time and move on?

    The police is a large organisation and generalisations should not be made, but nonetheless these cases should not be swept away under the carpet.

    Yes, this guy shouldn't get into trouble, but surely this doesn't excuse his death while in police custody? I mean fair enough if he was a major gang member and got killed by a rival gang, but this is totally different. The police should uphold the law and abide by it as well. Obviously its still an ongoing investigation, so who knows what really happened :dontknow:
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    (Original post by fuzzybear)
    What, accept that people die in police custody as something that ain't worth our time and move on?

    The police is a large organisation and generalisations should not be made, but nonetheless these cases should not be swept away under the carpet.

    Yes, this guy shouldn't get into trouble, but surely this doesn't excuse his death while in police custody? I mean fair enough if he was a major gang member and got killed by a rival gang, but this is totally different. The police should uphold the law and abide by it as well. Obviously its still an ongoing investigation, so who knows what really happened :dontknow:
    See you don't even know if the police are at much of a fault here, did they use excessive force? Was it clear that he needed urgent medical treatment? But the crap journalism I'm seeing in this article makes it sound like the police are stone cold murderers who stood around the body laughing and thinking of themselves being above the law. Its from the viewpoint of a bereaved family for peat sake who look like they've always had a dislike for the police for shutting down their local drug den.

    Yes questions should be asked and answers should be found, but the media always seem to put an anti-police element to their stories and/or add irrelevant details that make it sound much worse.
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    (Original post by Mockery)
    See you don't even know if the police are at much of a fault here, did they use excessive force? Was it clear that he needed urgent medical treatment? But the crap journalism I'm seeing in this article makes it sound like the police are stone cold murderers who stood around the body laughing and thinking of themselves being above the law. Its from the viewpoint of a bereaved family for peat sake who look like they've always had a dislike for the police for shutting down their local drug den.

    Yes questions should be asked and answers should be found, but the media always seem to put an anti-police element to their stories and/or add irrelevant details that make it sound much worse.
    The media isn't universially anti-police, its made up of all sorts of news organisation. I seem to remember The Sun were quite sympathietic to the met in the aftermath of the stockwell shooting incident, and as it turned out they were quite close to the Murdoch paper.

    I don't think I accused the police of using excessive force. My main point is that these cases should be reported. No organisation in this country should be immune from criticism. I agree the problem is that often articles are too one sided, and in this case, its understandable because the police are no doubt obliged not to speak too much about this to the press as theres an on-going investigation. So the media could only turn to family members and other witnesses for their story. But I don't think its sensible to ignore these stories due to this reason. The fact of the matter is, The Guardian have made it clear that these claims in the article are from family members and neighbours, as well as making the point that, 'Cheshire police said it is unable to comment because of the IPCC investigation'. I think this is reasonable enough, its not the paper's fault that some readers choose to make sweeping judgements based on such limited information.
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    Of course when they heard the suspect was a 'darkie' they put down their donuts and all rushed to the scene for a piece of the action ,because all the police are racist bullying pigs who would brutalise someone in full public view with totally impartial witness's (neighbours and family) watching all that take place.

    Or maybe just maybe, there is another side to the story which the media aren't reporting just yet,but it will all come out in the wash at a later date when those coppers have been put through the ringer and will be lucky to have careers left. The police involved cannot defend themselves in the media and give their side because they will have been gagged at least until the investigation is concluded and even then I doubt the officers involved will talk about the incident.

    Now perhaps they were out of order and a man died,that certainly does need to be investigated if it was a family member of mine I would want some answers but before people rush to judgement Iam reminded of another case that really outraged people (including myself and it turned out the full story was not reported by the media).Namely a policeman sat on a girl punching her with full force into her face several times,she ended up with broken bones in her face . It was shown on camera in the underground car park where it happened and straight away mass public outrage.

    The guardian even held a candlelit vigil for this poor girl. However what later was revealed was this girl had hold of his testicles at the time and was squeezing them hard to the extent he needed hospital treatment,he was punching her quite legitimately to defend himself . You just couldn't see it due to that particular camera angle.Later several witness's including the girl admitted this. It also was revealed this girl had gone on the rampage assaulting several members of the public and vandalising cars before her encounter with the policeman.She blamed drink and her medication for this. But for weeks this policeman was public enemy number one, and the stress caused him to attempt suicide. But you see how the picture changes over time?

    So don't rush to judgement is all Iam saying. The media especially the Mail and the guardian which have strong political leanings, like to sensationalise and maybe not report all the facts to support those leanings and get people to read their writings. Until they absolutely have to tell the full story or are ordered too for legal reasons.
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    LOL look at his parents.
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    IPCC has investigated many of these cases and not once does it find a police officer guilty. Shocking. Definitely institutionally racist. IPCC only ever do the right thing when it is an internal issue which brings the force into disrepute. But if it is the murder of a black/asian they do **** all. I read somewhere that not a single officer has ever been found guilty in these kind of cases since 1980. Shocking.

    I cannot say for this particular case as I don't know the facts.
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    the police are meant to be threatenin and scary, whod respect the laws if they were all a load o nancies?
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    (Original post by Potential Trigger)
    IPCC has investigated many of these cases and not once does it find a police officer guilty. Shocking. Definitely institutionally racist. IPCC only ever do the right thing when it is an internal issue which brings the force into disrepute. But if it is the murder of a black/asian they do **** all. I read somewhere that not a single officer has ever been found guilty in these kind of cases since 1980. Shocking.
    Ahem.

    http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/pr...ess%20Releases

    http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/pr...ess%20Releases

    It is true that they do not find everyone guilty but has anyone ever considered the fact that this may be because that's the correct decision. Either way they do find them guilty when they need to. Often the IPCC will find them guilty of an offence or attempt to prosecute but the courts are reluctant and, as with the police, they end up with the stick.

    On another note I'm sick and tired of the police being blamed for people getting off with small sentences or being found not guilty . It's not their fault, the courts make these decisions. The CPS in England and Wales and the Procurator Fiscal in Scotland are often complete arses and don't get enough stick for the poor way they manage cases. There needs to be a balance.
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    I'm not surprised.

    The police are heavy-handed, violent bullies.

    Watch any police TV docu series and you will see this.

    Read this article:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/ju...l-fan-attacked
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    (Original post by pedmond)
    Ahem.

    http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/pr...ess%20Releases

    http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/pr...ess%20Releases

    It is true that they do not find everyone guilty but has anyone ever considered the fact that this may be because that's the correct decision. Either way they do find them guilty when they need to. Often the IPCC will find them guilty of an offence or attempt to prosecute but the courts are reluctant and, as with the police, they end up with the stick.

    On another note I'm sick and tired of the police being blamed for people getting off with small sentences or being found not guilty . It's not their fault, the courts make these decisions. The CPS in England and Wales and the Procurator Fiscal in Scotland are often complete arses and don't get enough stick for the poor way they manage cases. There needs to be a balance.
    That article says nothing about the race of the person. I am referring to black/asian deaths or beatings, the officers have always been cleared.
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    (Original post by Potential Trigger)
    That article says nothing about the race of the person. I am referring to black/asian deaths or beatings, the officers have always been cleared.
    While that may be true how many specific allegations of a racial beating or death with a racial side to it have their been? If you check the IPCC website there are lots of press releases about allegations of assault but on whites or non-ethnic minorities. They don't get the high profile media attention that the non-ethnic minority cases get giving the impression that there are more racially aggravated cases than there actually is.

    I'm not denying that there are cases just that there may be a warped sense of how many of these allegations there are, and of them how many can be deemed credible.
 
 
 
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