Why is domestic violence seen as a gender issue? Watch

Historophilia
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#21
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#21
(Original post by swiftylol)
What I don't understand is why it many see it as acceptable for a woman to say "I hit him because he was cheating", but if a man did the same thing, a ****storm will arise.
Honestly I don't think anyone who is a decent person will think that is acceptable.
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limetang
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#22
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#22
(Original post by abc:))
What do you mean when you say it is treated like a gender issue? By who and in what way?
The person who answered bellow you put it very well.

But essentially. Society sees at as a gender issue. In that society views domestic violence as man as agressor woman as victim. Our governments view it as a gender issue by perpetuating the claim of man as agressor woman as victim (duluth model). And by not providing anywhere near the amount of support for male victims as it does for female victims.

This gender bias is further perpetuated by the fact that men are not allowed in women's refuges. For the primary reason that men are viewed as beasts, men are viewed as the agressors, the enemy etc.
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rad_student
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Historophilia)
Honestly I don't think anyone who is a decent person will think that is acceptable.
No, but maybe the female aggressor will then claim DV & police may apply the Duluth Model & charge him. If there was equality then the Duluth model would be adapted or never used again - given so much research on people's behaviour including reality by Erin Pizzey. Despite unacceptability, DV can allow no punishment even for murder.

The ManWomanMyth 1in4 video had an example of 50:50 DV; HO 1999 data pdf page 7. Although wherever there is DV stats its often someone that runs women's shelter that frames the situation/discourse.
I think there is a direct link between suicide & lack of men's support network.

A colleague of mine had a false DV allegation by his wife (who's cheating). Police came in 15 mins, he's a big guy and as there was no marks on her, as he hadn't hit her they let him go, but he's worried she might abuse herself & have him arrested. Now she can take a non-molestation restraining court order & he can't go back to the house without permission. He's Nigerian, but it happened to an Indian man I know.
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(Original post by abc:))
..
abc its not just DV or ABH/GBH that's gendered (for next time ). >67% of murder victims are male & men three times more likely to be be killed by a stranger - but society has safety ads, taxi priority for women only.

- There is the current discussion, definition of rape is gender specific, "Women Raping Men".
- Family law where >80% goes to mother alone (met someone trying for 2 years to see his children & another where son is saying you're not my father and his court date means no contact for 2 months). There is a proportionately high % of prison men from a single mother household. Last year Govt considered closing all women's prisons - r murderess women that saintly? Society thinks that mothers are best for children; in past men got the children during breakup.
- Is it common to hear of positive discrimination to help men get into women dominated careers? Or r women purposefully held back by the bosses?
- Less healthcare/homless provisons for men (early deaths but later retirement), despite paying more into the system. But we hear of a pay gap (its 19%).

These r the way the Govt controls its people by dividing. When women don't trust men, they turn to the Govt & the Govt can GROW with more funding for women-only services & everyone else gets on the back of funding possibilities. It then uses these gendered laws aided by women to control men. Although right now its cutting the bloat, as that's business; no love lost or existed.

Not sure how true but they say the women's vote is fickle & can be bought, politicians bribe for the women's vote & as they - Labour feminised, but Tory has to undo & it causes them to lose Tory women support. Most women focus on women & men have been brought up to focus on women, hence current situation.
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Historophilia
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#24
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#24
(Original post by rad_student)
No, but maybe the female aggressor will then claim DV & police may apply the Duluth Model & charge him. If there was equality then the Duluth model would be adapted or never used again - given so much research on people's behaviour including reality by Erin Pizzey. Despite unacceptability, DV can allow no punishment even for murder.

The ManWomanMyth 1in4 video had an example of 50:50 DV; HO 1999 data pdf page 7. Although wherever there is DV stats its often someone that runs women's shelter that frames the situation/discourse.
I think there is a direct link between suicide & lack of men's support network.

A colleague of mine had a false DV allegation by his wife (who's cheating). Police came in 15 mins, he's a big guy and as there was no marks on her, as he hadn't hit her they let him go, but he's worried she might abuse herself & have him arrested. Now she can take a non-molestation restraining court order & he can't go back to the house without permission. He's Nigerian, but it happened to an Indian man I know.
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But it's not something a normal person would do. You'd have to pretty sick in the head to fake a domestic violence claim and to self harm to make it more realistic.

I'm sure it does happen, but it's not common and it's not socially acceptable.

Besides it being an awful thing to do to a partner no matter how strained a relationship is it's utterly disrespectful to real domestic violence victims.

And while it's one of those things that is hard to prove for definite without witnesses or physical evidence if a woman makes an allegation of domestic violence then the police and courts have to take action. So many women are killed, beaten up and raped by their partners that to ignore a claim could result in someones dying. And can you imagine how it would look if a woman made a claim, the police didn't do anything for lack of evidence, suspecting it was false, and then it turned out to be true and she was murdered?

The police can't always get things right, and I'm sorry about what's happened to the people you know. But these cases are very difficult and no police force wants a death on their hands because they did not take action.
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limetang
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Historophilia)
But it's not something a normal person would do. You'd have to pretty sick in the head to fake a domestic violence claim and to self harm to make it more realistic.

I'm sure it does happen, but it's not common and it's not socially acceptable.

Besides it being an awful thing to do to a partner no matter how strained a relationship is it's utterly disrespectful to real domestic violence victims.

And while it's one of those things that is hard to prove for definite without witnesses or physical evidence if a woman makes an allegation of domestic violence then the police and courts have to take action. So many women are killed, beaten up and raped by their partners that to ignore a claim could result in someones dying. And can you imagine how it would look if a woman made a claim, the police didn't do anything for lack of evidence, suspecting it was false, and then it turned out to be true and she was murdered?

The police can't always get things right, and I'm sorry about what's happened to the people you know. But these cases are very difficult and no police force wants a death on their hands because they did not take action.
Point taken, but at what point is it fair to remove a man from his house, from his children etc. Purely because his wife made an accusation with no accompanying evidence to suggest that what she said was true she has no bruises, no cuts, no sign of physical injury whatsoever. In short she doesn't appear to be at risk. He is meant to be innocent until proven guilty. And I hardly see how having him thrown out of his house, and possibly given a restraining order can in any way be considered a presumption of innocence.

If the police believe there is no danger they should leave them until the next day where they can start processing them both, getting statements etc.

If they believe there is imminent danger by leaving them together they should separate the alleged agressor and the alleged victim(s), and then process them etc.
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rad_student
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Historophilia)
But it's not something a normal person would do. You'd have to pretty sick in the head to fake a domestic violence claim and to self harm to make it more realistic.

I'm sure it does happen, but it's not common and it's not socially acceptable.

Besides it being an awful thing to do to a partner no matter how strained a relationship is it's utterly disrespectful to real domestic violence victims.

And while it's one of those things that is hard to prove for definite without witnesses or physical evidence if a woman makes an allegation of domestic violence then the police and courts have to take action. So many women are killed, beaten up and raped by their partners that to ignore a claim could result in someones dying. And can you imagine how it would look if a woman made a claim, the police didn't do anything for lack of evidence, suspecting it was false, and then it turned out to be true and she was murdered?

The police can't always get things right, and I'm sorry about what's happened to the people you know. But these cases are very difficult and no police force wants a death on their hands because they did not take action.
The 2 women at the time r not thinking of other DV victims or their children (1 got her older daughter agreeing by bribing, whilst the other was put on a double bind) they r thinking of how to get rid of the man. The courts enable them even if it is false.
Its a swifter, less complicated way than getting a divorce & keeping the house (as children involved). I'm saying the courts side with the women even if it is false, same with no punishment if visitation rights r being withheld. There is less publicly known about this as family law is closed courts, at least false rapists r in the paper.
http://fathers4justiceadvertising.fi...rorist-ad4.jpg

Also lesser known Effect is that 90% of rough sleepers (2010 stats) r men because when women claim abuse, the DV shelters house them (who'd not lie to get off sleeping on the streets). Its just gendered that men can't get DV abused & escape (esp if children involved, as courts will still give children back to the abusing mother) so minimal funding & as Mankind have wrote in pdf link, men get turned away (some can be gay). My housemate (no children, 40s) was made homeless for a while, relying on handouts for a period whilst the wife lived in the house. But u're probably thinking rape (women-only) rather than 'bum fights' (as they say in USA), people not cared for as usually those on the streets have most mental & various addiction problems, let through big gaps.

As Reported most physical crimes & homicides r on men,but u don't see that (most funding goes towards fyrther protecting women) otherwise they'd be safety advice & the other stuff mentioned in ManWomanMyth vids (save myself repeating his stuff).
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rad_student
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#27
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#27
(Original post by limetang)
Point taken, but at what point is it fair to remove a man from his house, from his children etc. Purely because his wife made an accusation with no accompanying evidence to suggest that what she said was true she has no bruises, no cuts, no sign of physical injury whatsoever. In short she doesn't appear to be at risk. He is meant to be innocent until proven guilty. And I hardly see how having him thrown out of his house, and possibly given a restraining order can in any way be considered a presumption of innocence.

If the police believe there is no danger they should leave them until the next day where they can start processing them both, getting statements etc.

If they believe there is imminent danger by leaving them together they should separate the alleged agressor and the alleged victim(s), and then process them etc.
Good point to add, if almost 40% of DV happens to men how come there is so few male safe spaces? The NUS commisioner for women (men's application gets blocked) won't be doing anything in a hurry in Universities.
22 months ago 7500 v 60 spaces for women v men. Boys over 12 r not allowed to reside in refuge shelters, they have to leave; men get screened to be in men's shelters unlike women. 60 places is more spaces than men in usa, where pets get shelter! In uk first shelter opened in 2003, 30 years after Prizzey ("64 women out of 100 r just as violent as the men they left") gets booted from Chiswick.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...estic-violence
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Historophilia
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#28
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#28
(Original post by limetang)
Point taken, but at what point is it fair to remove a man from his house, from his children etc. Purely because his wife made an accusation with no accompanying evidence to suggest that what she said was true she has no bruises, no cuts, no sign of physical injury whatsoever. In short she doesn't appear to be at risk. He is meant to be innocent until proven guilty. And I hardly see how having him thrown out of his house, and possibly given a restraining order can in any way be considered a presumption of innocence.

If the police believe there is no danger they should leave them until the next day where they can start processing them both, getting statements etc.

If they believe there is imminent danger by leaving them together they should separate the alleged agressor and the alleged victim(s), and then process them etc.
I don't know enough about the police process in these cases to comment. To be honest neither of us do.

I'm sure the police know a hell of a lot more about how to deal with domestic violence than either of us do, so regardless of whether in some cases a man is unfairly treated I'd say that their methods are probably going to be as good as is possible.

The police rarely act without some form of evidence, and even if in the case of your friend where their was no physical evidence they may have had other reasons to believe her story. Perhaps neighbors had reported odd things happening or they thought that their was something odd about the relationship when they spoke to both halves of the couple. they don't just ban someone from their house because they feel like it, they will have had their reasons, which may not be true, but they cannot just ignore them.

Your suggestion that they leave it till the next day is I'm afraid not viable. In domestic violence cases women are most in danger over the period of separation and when officials start to get involved. If the police think something is wrong they have to act immediately or their mere presence can put a woman's life in even more danger than it was before.

In the grand scheme of things, while t really isn't fair for those who get unfairly impacted, I think it's better that situations like your friends occur from time to time rather than someone getting brutally murdered.
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rad_student
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#29
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Taking restraining orders is common for leverage (police know that as I think policemen with orders temporarily lose some of their public authority). Also by trying 1 one early on, the courts won't risk it & accept an Undertaking = father removed from house & lost all rights for full residency (unless teenager). Leverage to see the kids = £, etc.
Someone wrote if rich Bob Geldof, who was knighted can be stripped of kids, what chances do the rest of us have? As part of the marriage strike, it was suggested by a women (psychiarist or psychologist) that if you want to have kids with no women's right to take them of you then surrogacy, in a different country. That's how biased the laws r, again despite evidence - why do u think Cameron is delaying Shared Parenting, the hypocrite wrt his good relationship with his own father & his own children.
Father's Love Is One of the Greatest Influences On Personality Development.
Role of Fathers.

Join the dots of DV political power & how it affects boys/men (its more than £, physical/mental treatment & suicide), there are underlying reasons. Causes & effects detrimental to society by DV: husbands/men denied from their property (a guy may pay the rent, but if she has moved in then its he who leaves) & children (as they may have an undertaking which will get reused; even with taking HER to court for denial to access; also worst late payers when men have residence/contact); allegations happenning with anonymity for 1 side; then lack of any suitable punishment when found false. Run Forrest run!

http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.co.u...tic%20Violence = as u seem like a history buff, old fashioned justice for wife beaters. Do you know what years it happened that husbands were punished for the crimes of wives?
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Historophilia
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#30
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(Original post by rad_student)
The 2 women at the time r not thinking of other DV victims or their children (1 got her older daughter agreeing by bribing, whilst the other was put on a double bind) they r thinking of how to get rid of the man. The courts enable them even if it is false.
Its a swifter, less complicated way than getting a divorce & keeping the house (as children involved). I'm saying the courts side with the women even if it is false, same with no punishment if visitation rights r being withheld. There is less publicly known about this as family law is closed courts, at least false rapists r in the paper.
http://fathers4justiceadvertising.fi...rorist-ad4.jpg

Also lesser known Effect is that 90% of rough sleepers (2010 stats) r men because when women claim abuse, the DV shelters house them (who'd not lie to get off sleeping on the streets). Its just gendered that men can't get DV abused & escape (esp if children involved, as courts will still give children back to the abusing mother) so minimal funding & as Mankind have wrote in pdf link, men get turned away (some can be gay). My housemate (no children, 40s) was made homeless for a while, relying on handouts for a period whilst the wife lived in the house. But u're probably thinking rape (women-only) rather than 'bum fights' (as they say in USA), people not cared for as usually those on the streets have most mental & various addiction problems, let through big gaps.

As Reported most physical crimes & homicides r on men,but u don't see that (most funding goes towards fyrther protecting women) otherwise they'd be safety advice & the other stuff mentioned in ManWomanMyth vids (save myself repeating his stuff).
And if they are doing things like this then I stand by what I said before. Only deeply unpleasant people would behave like that and very few people with any moral judgement would condone those actions.

And if the courts find in their favor they will have reasons for it. They do not convict without proper evidence so they must have had it, whether fabricated or not and considered that this evidence was such that they would find in the woman's favor.

A miscarriage of justice yes but a miscarriage due to the despicable actions of that woman and her accomplice and her ability to misle the court. Not due to some pro-woman bias which is what you seem to be suggesting.

And I agree that the number of men who are rough sleepers is a serious issue but I'm not sure that you can blame it all on family law courts.

Very many rough sleepers are in their situation partly due to drug or alcohol abuse. And since men are more likely to drink and take drugs (which is also partly reason why men up till now have had a shorter life expectancy) then it is highly unsurprising that more men are rough sleepers.

It is true however that their are more shelters for female victims of abuse than their are for men and that this may contribute to the problems of male rough sleeping.

However I say this; at the heart of the problem are societies ideas about what men and women are like. Society thinks that men should be big and strong and capable to taking care of himself and that men who are abused by women are not proper men. Many will not even believe it possible that women will be able to abuse a man, because societies ideas about women are that they are small weak and fragile and not capable of being violent.

These stereotypes about the sexes and pigeon holing of men and women into certain roles and assigning them certain characteristics regardless of what they are actually like is incredibly damaging to everyone. No-one benefits from gender stereotyping.

In fact this same gender stereotyping is ultimately responsible for another bias in family law courts, that of tending to assign custody to he mother in most circumstances. This is based on the stereotype that women are always the best person to raise children and that to disrupt that would be wrong. I disagree heartily with this idea, as both men and women are equally capable of being wonderful and also awful parents. I disagree with the automatic assumption that women = child rearers and if this view was done away with and the courts based their decisions of a totally gender neutral basis then the world would be a better place and more fathers would get primary custody more often.

Also remember that due to these stereotypes, the mothers are a lot of the time the primary care givers to children in divorce cases. Courts will generally be more likely to give custody to the primary care giver and since it is better for children to remain in the home they are used to, this explains why women in divorce cases might be more likely to keep the family home rather than their former husband.

Discrepancies and apparent gender-bias in family law cases and divorces are not due to courts preferring women and trying to make life harder for men but are due to the gender stereotyping that is the cause of a lot of the problems men and women face.

Get rid of gender stereotypes, and you solve these problems.
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