Double dip recession Watch

onda
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#21
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#21
I don't like the way this government is handling our economy, it seems Like they're only interested in keeping their old boys network alive and kicking.
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Llamageddon
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#22
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I do have to wonder how a party that oversaw the lions share of our longest period of economic growth since records began, that ran a number of surpluses and made dramatic improvements in the nations infrastructure and public services, that negotiated reduced pensions without strikes and so on can be almost universally regarded as economic incompetents by the british public. I myself typically veer to the right on economic issues and naturally favour the conservatives (though the wing of eurosceptic climate change deniers is putting me off somewhat), but data simply doesn't support the view that the last government couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.
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The_Great_One
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#23
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#23
I disagree i think its people in this country have a sense of entitlement they want everything even though they dont have the money for it. A millionaire who has his own business can have everything because he has the money to pay for it but the average person cant. Its just life plain and simple.
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The_Great_One
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#24
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#24
(Original post by bkeevin)
Well the Germans, French, Scandinavian countries among others would beg to differ. They all have larger public sectors as a percentage of GDP than we do. All those countries are have not yet experienced the double dip recession despite some being in the heart of the eurozone crisis. You cannot just look at the examples of three or four countries in the developed world with less government than the UK and extrapolate when majority of countries rather have way bigger governments. Most of the successful countries rely on a vibrant private sector and a large public sector to assist.
Yeah and the germans are going to lose their AAA rating and were not. The germans actually make things and we dont any more and they want to do some work where as people in this country dont.
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bkeevin
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#25
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(Original post by The_Great_One)
Yeah and the germans are going to lose their AAA rating and were not. The germans actually make things and we dont any more and they want to do some work where as people in this country dont.
Can you remind me why it is important to keep that rating again? Our manufacturing sector is is lower than Germany but we are still in the top 10 in the world. That does not even change the fact Germany still has a bigger public sector than Britain possibly because the public sector invested more to enable the German manufacturing remain competitive.
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bkeevin
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#26
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(Original post by The_Great_One)
Yeah and the germans are going to lose their AAA rating and were not. The germans actually make things and we dont any more and they want to do some work where as people in this country dont.
The fact is the cost of borrowing fell following the US being downgraded. Japan with a massive debt over 200% of their GDP is paying less than half of what we pay for their 10year bond and even witnessed a 4% growth thanks government borrowing and spending last year. Japan's credit rating is about 3 notches below AAA. Keeping this elusive AAA will not serve us one bit if our economy remains in the duldrums.
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The_Great_One
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#27
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#27
(Original post by bkeevin)
The fact is the cost of borrowing fell following the US being downgraded. Japan with a massive debt over 200% of their GDP is paying less than half of what we pay for their 10year bond and even witnessed a 4% growth thanks government borrowing and spending last year. Japan's credit rating is about 3 notches below AAA. Keeping this elusive AAA will not serve us one bit if our economy remains in the duldrums.
So how come the germans are saying that the greeks need more austerity or else they wont get any more help. If your theory is correct and the germans invest loads in the public sector.
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bkeevin
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#28
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(Original post by The_Great_One)
So how come the germans are saying that the greeks need more austerity or else they wont get any more help. If your theory is correct and the germans invest loads in the public sector.
Well they may be simply asking the Greeks to spend less than the tax levied because the rate they are currently borrowing is unsustainable especially as they cannot print more money to devalue the debt and boost their export.

The Germans spend more in their public sector as a percentage of GDP than we do but they do not have to excessively borrow to do it unlike Greece or Britain.
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The_Great_One
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#29
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#29
(Original post by bkeevin)
Well they may be simply asking the Greeks to spend less than the tax levied because the rate they are currently borrowing is unsustainable especially as they cannot print more money to devalue the debt and boost their export.

The Germans spend more in their public sector as a percentage of GDP than we do but they do not have to excessively borrow to do it unlike Greece or Britain.
They ca nafford to do it because they arent in debt like we are. They didnt spend too much on it to start with and its evolved organicaly where as we blew everything on it and got in debt.
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bkeevin
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#30
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(Original post by The_Great_One)
They ca nafford to do it because they arent in debt like we are. They didnt spend too much on it to start with and its evolved organicaly where as we blew everything on it and got in debt.
Believe me the Germans are just in as much debt as we are(just check it!). They simply have a higher growth and a lower deficit. They were helped by their manufacturing whereas the UK suffered because of our over reliance on the financial services and taxes derived from it. Before the crisis we had one of he lowest debt in the developed world relative to our GDP. Our tax receipts have never recovered since while spending has been about the same. Reducing our public spending would simply accelerate the decline in output.
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The_Great_One
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#31
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#31
What is the answer to the problem then because more spending doesnt work and less spending at the moment isnt workingsomaybe we should move towards less workers rights and regulations for business so companies can employ people easier.
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bkeevin
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#32
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(Original post by Llamageddon)
I do have to wonder how a party that oversaw the lions share of our longest period of economic growth since records began, that ran a number of surpluses and made dramatic improvements in the nations infrastructure and public services, that negotiated reduced pensions without strikes and so on can be almost universally regarded as economic incompetents by the british public. I myself typically veer to the right on economic issues and naturally favour the conservatives (though the wing of eurosceptic climate change deniers is putting me off somewhat), but data simply doesn't support the view that the last government couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.
Exactly. The facts and figures don't lie. New labour did make a few mistakes say on Iraq, immigration, bank regulation etc but then all governments make similar mistakes. The have probably been the best stewards of our economy post wartime. The thing is if the press keep repeating a lie enough times every end up believing it.
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A7d8i6l
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#33
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#33
Where in a double dip recession and David Cameron was entertaining party donors!! He still carrying on with top down reorganisation!! Out of touch tory government and the lib dems are just lost!!


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bkeevin
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#34
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(Original post by The_Great_One)
What is the answer to the problem then because more spending doesnt work and less spending at the moment isnt workingsomaybe we should move towards less workers rights and regulations for business so companies can employ people easier.
Why not follow Keynesianism that has kind of served us enrich ourselves over the past decades. However we could ensure that we save during the boom time like Brown did initially during Labour's first term and only run deficits during recessions like now. More government spending does work as we saw it in China who never entered the 2008 recession because of it or Japan last year.
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scriggy
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#35
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Part politics aside, it's really getting worrying now. 3 quarters in a row with the economy shrinking faster and faster.

And supposedly these figures mean we are having to borrow more money now than we used to, which essentially mean the cuts have gotten us nowhere. :sigh:
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The_Great_One
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#36
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#36
(Original post by scriggy)
Part politics aside, it's really getting worrying now. 3 quarters in a row with the economy shrinking faster and faster.

And supposedly these figures mean we are having to borrow more money now than we used to, which essentially mean the cuts have gotten us nowhere. :sigh:
It shows that we need more cuts. We haven't cut deep enough or fast enough I've been saying It for ages and look where we are now.
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The_Great_One
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#37
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(Original post by bkeevin)
Why not follow Keynesianism that has kind of served us enrich ourselves over the past decades. However we could ensure that we save during the boom time like Brown did initially during Labour's first term and only run deficits during recessions like now. More government spending does work as we saw it in China who never entered the 2008 recession because of it or Japan last year.
So what about Spain, Ireland, Greece and Italy.
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creak
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#38
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(Original post by The_Great_One)
So what about Spain, Ireland, Greece and Italy.
All have gone through deeper and harsher austerity programmes, and look what happened.
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scriggy
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#39
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(Original post by The_Great_One)
It shows that we need more cuts. We haven't cut deep enough or fast enough I've been saying It for ages and look where we are now.
But the faster we've cut, the deeper the recession has gotten.

Labour left a recovering economy in 2010, then the Tories came in and started their austerity program, and look where we are now.
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bkeevin
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#40
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(Original post by The_Great_One)
So what about Spain, Ireland, Greece and Italy.
They and we probably would not currently be in recession today if they followed simple Keynesianism. The countries that haven't followed the austerity route have not yet entered a recession even if their economies are not that great.
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