Cardiff University - Kitten Murders Watch

littlemissmidget123
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Shabalala)
What a ridiculous comment as someone above mentioned they use cats because they have forward pointing eyes like us and are born with poor vision and ‘learn’ to see as their brain cells develop connections with the eye.

and more importantly you are judging what animals right to live/not be tested on going by it's cuteness that is pathetic what makes it alright to test on rabbits and rats but not cats just because one looks cuter that is unbelievebly shallow, superficial and even barbaric.
imho a lot of animal testing shouldnt be done be it rats or cats, but the rats are bread for testing, and i agree it makes no logical sense, but its the way i feel - maybe its because i have a cat who is currently ill, but its the way i feel...

humans are too determined to play god, what happened to just dropping dead of a heart attack, rather than long stays in hospitals on horrible medicines, when the end result is death anyways? at least there is minimal suffering. why put animals through mutilations to test some medications, why not just use humans instead, after all we are essentially just another living species, and the medicine is ultimately for us in this instance. just because we have the power/ability to does not mean that we should.
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internet tough guy
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#22
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#22
Cruel but being selfish is part of life
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Xotol
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#23
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#23
(Original post by littlemissmidget123)
imho a lot of animal testing shouldnt be done be it rats or cats, but the rats are bread for testing, and i agree it makes no logical sense, but its the way i feel - maybe its because i have a cat who is currently ill, but its the way i feel...

humans are too determined to play god, what happened to just dropping dead of a heart attack, rather than long stays in hospitals on horrible medicines, when the end result is death anyways? at least there is minimal suffering. why put animals through mutilations to test some medications, why not just use humans instead, after all we are essentially just another living species, and the medicine is ultimately for us in this instance. just because we have the power/ability to does not mean that we should.
I take it your refusal to take any drugs or medicine is working out for you, yeah?

Look through any medicine research, and one of the most pivotal stages is to test animals. It's not only for drug development - it's also to discover certain features about anatomy and physiology that we don't know about to lead to huge advances in medicine. And this isn't always exclusive to just humans, it also advances the vet med field.
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Snagprophet
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#24
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#24
Distasteful. Why don't I sew their babies eyes up and see how fun it all is? I don't see why, if we have to experiment, we don't do it on ourselves.
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Pkysam
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Snagprophet)
Distasteful. Why don't I sew their babies eyes up and see how fun it all is? I don't see why, if we have to experiment, we don't do it on ourselves.
So your suggestion is that this would have been ethically more acceptable if they'd used babies? I see.


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Snagprophet
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Pkysam)
So your suggestion is that this would have been ethically more acceptable if they'd used babies? I see.


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As a species I'd rather we did it to ourselves than other ones.
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Pkysam
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Snagprophet)
As a species I'd rather we did it to ourselves than other ones.
Does this go for food sources too? We should kill and eat people rather than chickens perhaps?


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EffieFlowers
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Xotol)
I take it your refusal to take any drugs or medicine is working out for you, yeah?

Look through any medicine research, and one of the most pivotal stages is to test animals. It's not only for drug development - it's also to discover certain features about anatomy and physiology that we don't know about to lead to huge advances in medicine. And this isn't always exclusive to just humans, it also advances the vet med field.
But we aren't talking about drugs, we are discussing this particular research. Tell my why you think this particular investigation is worth it. Not sensory deprivation in general, this one.
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Dmon1Unlimited
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Tesphena)
It is important to understand sensory deprivation tbf. I'm sure the scientists didn't chose to blind kittens for fun, although I'm not sure why they had to be put down and not rehoused.
I understand animal testing that can save lives but research like this allows (potentially, not certainly) information that lets us understand more about conditions like lazy eye...

If lives are saved, then I understand the unfortunate sacrifice, but where do you draw the line when research bears no life saving? Does curiousity or a wanting to aid others aesthetically justify this animal cruelty? Personally I don't think so.
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EffieFlowers
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#30
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So it was to treat the lazy eye condition.

So firstly, and most importantly, this can already be treated.
Secondly, it's not a severe condition which is deprimental to a child's physical and mental health.

How can you actually say that this is worth it? In order to conduct experiment's as cruel as this, the end result should be of a massive benefit to us, such as the curing of a possible fatal disease, not for a condition as minor as lazy eye...
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TheQuietOne
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#31
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#31
(Original post by EffieFlowers)
Your class giggled at the idea of kittens having their eyes sewn shut? Oh how hilarious that is...

And are you saying that this research has already been done? Then it is not entirely necessary that it be repeated. Why is this piece of research so important? People keep saying that, can you tell me what benefit the study will bring?
Well, our teacher was drawing silly pictures on the board of little kittens with their eyes shut to try and explain it to us. Most of the class thought it was hilarious.

As for repeating an experiment that has already been done, they may have refined it to build up on the previous results, test the accuracy of previous results, or you're right and it wasn't necessary.

I think the argument for the benefits of the study is just expanding our knowledge of how the senses work to use for human medical purposes. The experiment we learned about was done in the 1960s-70s (by Hubel and Wiesel if you want to google it) to find out if there was a critical window of development when a kitten needed to receive stimulus to fully develop it's eyesight. If the kitten had one of its eyes sewn shut over this critical period of time (at about 5 weeks I think) then it would not be able to receive this stimulus and so would not develop the required brain pathways for binocular vision, and one eye would take over all the work, even if the other eye was opened again. If its eyes were sewn shut after the period, it would still be able to see perfectly after its eyes were opened again. This showed that occular dominance developed irreversibly in child development. This experiment actually helped with understanding and treatment of cataracts, squints and lazy eyes in babies.
(Regurgitated from an A2 bio textbook, I hope I remembered right.)
Not sure why it needed to be repeated again so recently though...
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littlemissmidget123
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Xotol)
I take it your refusal to take any drugs or medicine is working out for you, yeah?

Look through any medicine research, and one of the most pivotal stages is to test animals. It's not only for drug development - it's also to discover certain features about anatomy and physiology that we don't know about to lead to huge advances in medicine. And this isn't always exclusive to just humans, it also advances the vet med field.
the number of times ive had prescription medicine could be counted on one hand. other than that it was just injections which i needed to get since i went to kenya last summer
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Lovefoxxx_93
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#33
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#33
I have a lazy eye and as much as it sucks having dreadful vision in one eye I don't totally agree with this experiment. Why couldn't they have re-homed them afterwards? But then again I suppose not many people could be bothered enough to adopt a blind cat.
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Xotol
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#34
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#34
(Original post by EffieFlowers)
But we aren't talking about drugs, we are discussing this particular research. Tell my why you think this particular investigation is worth it. Not sensory deprivation in general, this one.
First, I never said that this particular investigation was worth it. I only commented because some people were in outrage over animal testing, and one poster even said it was akin to 'playing God', even though everyone has no doubt reaped the benefits of drugs at some point in their life.

Whether this was worth it, I don't know enough about the research to comment with a clear opinion. However, from what I've read about this, a lazy eye can lead to loss of vision and blindless, so research into this could potentially help with alleviating or even curing those conditions.

(Original post by littlemissmidget123)
the number of times ive had prescription medicine could be counted on one hand. other than that it was just injections which i needed to get since i went to kenya last summer
That's one hand too many given the arguments you've made. Also, I'm not sure if you know, but animal testing is also a requirement for developing vaccines (presumably the injections you took).
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littlemissmidget123
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Xotol)
That's one hand too many given the arguments you've made. Also, I'm not sure if you know, but animal testing is also a requirement for developing vaccines (presumably the injections you took).
Yeah, but I would rather have animal testing, which I note will most likely not have been cats, than get hep b, or malaria, or yellow fever, or hpv for that matter - plus to travel to where i went to, it is virtually mandatory that you have a yellow fever jab.
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EffieFlowers
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Xotol)
First, I never said that this particular investigation was worth it. I only commented because some people were in outrage over animal testing, and one poster even said it was akin to 'playing God', even though everyone has no doubt reaped the benefits of drugs at some point in their life.

Whether this was worth it, I don't know enough about the research to comment with a clear opinion. However, from what I've read about this, a lazy eye can lead to loss of vision and blindless, so research into this could potentially help with alleviating or even curing those conditions.



That's one hand too many given the arguments you've made. Also, I'm not sure if you know, but animal testing is also a requirement for developing vaccines (presumably the injections you took).
There's already an established cure for lazy eye. I don't disagree with animal testing, but i believe that the use of animals to this degree should definitely be confined to the most productive research that will help lead to a great increase in people's well being and lives. I'm pretty sure that the aims and outcomes of this experiment has not done that. I'm so surprised that it had been given the go ahead.

I feel that sometimes universities are too concerned with maintaining their high research status...
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Xotol
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#37
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#37
(Original post by littlemissmidget123)
Yeah, but I would rather have animal testing, which I note will most likely not have been cats, than get hep b, or malaria, or yellow fever, or hpv for that matter - plus to travel to where i went to, it is virtually mandatory that you have a yellow fever jab.
So you're not really complaining about animal testing per say; you're complaining about the involvement of cats, which I assume is for personal emotional reasons?

(Original post by EffieFlowers)
There's already an established cure for lazy eye. I don't disagree with animal testing, but i believe that the use of animals to this degree should definitely be confined to the most productive research that will help lead to a great increase in people's well being and lives. I'm pretty sure that the aims and outcomes of this experiment has not done that. I'm so surprised that it had been given the go ahead.

I feel that sometimes universities are too concerned with maintaining their high research status...
I'm pretty sure I didn't say it's 'just' for lazy eye - it could potentially help in loss of vision which is a bit more serious. We barely know anything about the story given that the tabloids that have broken it have been extremely biased towards the animal cruelty side. Not saying that they're necessarily wrong, but there could easily be more reasons for this experiment taking place.
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EffieFlowers
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Xotol)
So you're not really complaining about animal testing per say; you're complaining about the involvement of cats, which I assume is for personal emotional reasons?



I'm pretty sure I didn't say it's 'just' for lazy eye - it could potentially help in loss of vision which is a bit more serious. We barely know anything about the story given that the tabloids that have broken it have been extremely biased towards the animal cruelty side. Not saying that they're necessarily wrong, but there could easily be more reasons for this experiment taking place.
Would you agree with it if it were just for lazy eye?
The only condition we know that it treats- from a statement from cardiff university- is that it treats lazy eye.
We can't really assume that it helps with loss of vision, if it did, I'm sure Cardiff would mention that alongside lazy eye. And research is so specific and narrow and the eye is so complex that I doubt it anyway.
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lulublue14
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#39
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#39
To everyone who is saying that the research on animals is necessary, please, actually do SOME research and you will find that actually, vivisection is completely useless and actually harmful to human health.

It doesn't help any kind of scientific or medical progress because animals have completely different reactions to humans. Just look at the 80 AIDS cures which worked on monkeys but were completely useless for humans.

Plus, I have to say that killing kittens for lazy eyes condition is not worth it AT ALL. Anybody can live with lazy eyes and not suffer physically at all when innocent animals, which actually trust humans to take care of them and love them, are tortured and killed. Not everything justifies means, and I am sorry to say that lazy eyes definitely DON'T justify this. Animals feel pain, are lonely and suffer. In my opinion, this is exactly the same as testing on new born humans, I just don't see the difference.
We are not almighty and surely we are not more important than animals. There are other methods to do biological research these days and innocent animals shouldn't have to take any part in this, they should be left alone and live the life NATURE intended they had.

We should all know that this is completely unethical and wrong and that something must be done. I do not understand how some people can be indifferent to this, but again, this is human nature to be cruel and I am sad to be part of this specie, which can inflict so much pain on other beings. I truly hope people who think that these poor animals NEED to be butchered for such small gain are going to die very slowly and in a lot of pain.
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james22
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#40
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#40
(Original post by lulublue14)
To everyone who is saying that the research on animals is necessary, please, actually do SOME research and you will find that actually, vivisection is completely useless and actually harmful to human health.

It doesn't help any kind of scientific or medical progress because animals have completely different reactions to humans. Just look at the 80 AIDS cures which worked on monkeys but were completely useless for humans.

Plus, I have to say that killing kittens for lazy eyes condition is not worth it AT ALL. Anybody can live with lazy eyes and not suffer physically at all when innocent animals, which actually trust humans to take care of them and love them, are tortured and killed. Not everything justifies means, and I am sorry to say that lazy eyes definitely DON'T justify this. Animals feel pain, are lonely and suffer. In my opinion, this is exactly the same as testing on new born humans, I just don't see the difference.
We are not almighty and surely we are not more important than animals. There are other methods to do biological research these days and innocent animals shouldn't have to take any part in this, they should be left alone and live the life NATURE intended they had.

We should all know that this is completely unethical and wrong and that something must be done. I do not understand how some people can be indifferent to this, but again, this is human nature to be cruel and I am sad to be part of this specie, which can inflict so much pain on other beings. I truly hope people who think that these poor animals NEED to be butchered for such small gain are going to die very slowly and in a lot of pain.
Whats the difference between this and killing animals for food?
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