T08 - Treaty of Ascension for Georgia Watch

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toronto353
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Morgsie)
I am giving the context and saying it is a long process IRL, I am not getting involved regarding Georgia (Impartial because of the hats I wear). You are right to express your concern though
Actually you can get involved here because you're only Secretariat of the EU Bloc in the MUN. Here you're an MP. It's akin to Nick saying that he can't give his opinions on anything on the whole site because he's Speaker here. Here he can't give opinions, elsewhere he can.
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obi_adorno_kenobi
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#22
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(Original post by Morgsie)
I am giving the context and saying it is a long process IRL, I am not getting involved regarding Georgia (Impartial because of the hats I wear). You are right to express your concern though
We don't need the context and to be told that it's a long process in real life, we (or at least I) know! Sometimes things don't have to be said, you can take it for granted that political aware and educated people know certain things. As regards your so-called "hats": *******s. You have an opinion, clearly.
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Morgsie
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#23
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#23
(Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
We don't need the context and to be told that it's a long process in real life, we (or at least I) know! Sometimes things don't have to be said, you can take it for granted that political aware and educated people know certain things. As regards your so-called "hats": *******s. You have an opinion, clearly.
The Right to Self Determination, it is upto the Georgian people to decide. Take Croatia for example there was a Referendum in favour of EU Membership and legislation was passed.

All Treaties have to be Ratified by Member States
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Rakas21
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Morgsie)
The EU is a soft power and Enlargement is part of it. The EU offers democratic consolidation and opening up markets. The previous enlargement that took place in 2004 and the ones back in the 1980s was to consolidate Democracy ion those States.

The RL Enlargement process is long and complicated and I cannot put into words to explain it. The Copenhagen Criteria is used./

The long blurb at the top is my doing, I used from the Croatia Accession Treaty and modified it
I think that calling the EU a soft power is a very soft notion in itself, the Berlin Plus 2002 agreement gives the EU the power to declare war even if it has not utilized such an action yet.

...................

After a cursory review i will be voting No to Georgian accention, it shares no border with a current EU member (not bothered about the geography per say but until Turkey is admitted i will not accept Georgian membership) and additionally it is very poor per capita.

In short, i wish it well in the future but now is not the time.
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tehFrance
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#25
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#25
I urge all members of the house to think about the ramifications of relations with Russia if we allow Georgia to join the EU, Georgia are not ready, they harbour terrorists for crying out loud!!!
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Morgsie
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#26
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#26
I would like to point out that States that joined the EU in 2004 and 2007 are in receipt of funds to help their economies
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obi_adorno_kenobi
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Morgsie)
The Right to Self Determination, it is upto the Georgian people to decide. Take Croatia for example there was a Referendum in favour of EU Membership and legislation was passed.

All Treaties have to be Ratified by Member States
State the bleedin' obvious. Croatia is a European nation and the question of its status as an eventual member of the European Union isn't one that is ever likely to be raised. Georgia's right to self determination doesn't mean that it gets to become a member of the European Union. What if Afghanistan applied to join, would you be hip-hooray in favour? Oh I can imagine the post now:

The Right to Self Determination, it is upto the Afghan people to decide. Take Croatia for example there was a Referendum in favour of EU Membership and legislation was passed.

All Treaties have to be Ratified by Member States
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tehFrance
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Morgsie)
I would like to point out that States that joined the EU in 2004 and 2007 are in receipt of funds to help their economies


Why must you insist on stating what we already know?
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eff01
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#29
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#29
I would like to bring to the attention of the house that this accession treaty was unanimously backed by EU members at the MUN. Georgia has continuously expressed its desire to join the European Union, it has the backing of the big hitters in the EU. I really don't understand what the fuss is about. Georgia wants to join the EU, EU states have agreed to its accession so why should the MHoC prove to be a stumbling block.

For those stating that Georgia is not a member of Europe, I would like to point out it is. Ukraine and Georgia are seen as countries that have the potential to join the European Union. This notion that the idea of Georgia joining the EU is alien is incorrect, several active discussions have taken place and many EU nations in RL support this. The partnership between Georgia and EU has continued to increase post 2008. Georgia in real life is in active negotiations with the EU on a whole host of issues including free trade and visa-free travel. In RL Georgia is preparing to receive an application for EU membership by 2013. United States has supported Georgia's RL ambitions to join NATO and the EU.

EU states back it, Georgia wants it, why should the MHoC not support it. I really don't see what is the need for all this objection.
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Morgsie
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#30
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#30
(Original post by eff01)
I would like to bring to the attention of the house that this accession treaty was unanimously backed by EU members at the MUN. Georgia has continuously expressed its desire to join the European Union, it has the backing of the big hitters in the EU. I really don't understand what the fuss is about. Georgia wants to join the EU, EU states have agreed to its accession so why should the MHoC prove to be a stumbling block.

For those stating that Georgia is not a member of Europe, I would like to point out it is. Ukraine and Georgia are seen as countries that have the potential to join the European Union. This notion that the idea of Georgia joining the EU is alien is incorrect, several active discussions have taken place and many EU nations in RL support this. The partnership between Georgia and EU has continued to increase post 2008. Georgia in real life is in active negotiations with the EU on a whole host of issues including free trade and visa-free travel. In RL Georgia is preparing to receive an application for EU membership by 2013. United States has supported Georgia's RL ambitions to join NATO and the EU.

EU states back it, Georgia wants it, why should the MHoC not support it. I really don't see what is the need for all this objection.
I would like to add that Georgia is moving away from Russia and hasd increased ties with NATO and the USA.

If the MHOC Votes against this then you will create a massive problem
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tehFrance
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Morgsie)
If the MHOC Votes against this then you will create a massive problem
No, no we will not. If we vote in favour, we will cause a huge problem... "uh hello Russia, just going to let in the country that harbours Chechen terrorists to the EU"
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toronto353
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Morgsie)
I would like to add that Georgia is moving away from Russia and hasd increased ties with NATO and the USA.

If the MHOC Votes against this then you will create a massive problem
Not really. All that will happen is that Georgia will not be a member state only a candidate state in the EU Bloc.

The reason I brought this treaty to this House by voting yes was to get their opinion on this issue so that this House can have a fair say on whether they want Georgia in the EU. You shouldn't harass this House into voting yes because it creates problems for the EU Bloc. That is not how you win votes. I am yet to decide what my vote will be at this current time, but that was my reasoning for voting yes - to give this House a proper say on this important issue.
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eff01
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#33
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#33
(Original post by tehFrance)
No, no we will not. If we vote in favour, we will cause a huge problem... "uh hello Russia, just going to let in the country that harbours Chechen terrorists to the EU"
Could you provide evidence for this claim? Contrary to what you have stated, Georgia along with US support has been active in defeating terrorism not just in the border regions of the country, but also around the world in particular in Afghanistan. Your comment that Georgia is harbouring terrorists is categorically incorrect.
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PierceBrosnan
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#34
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#34
Aye! However, only if Georgia renews its position on LGBT rights to be more in line with Europe. Georgia has been gripped with authoritarianism and grips from its neighbour Russia, therefore it is only right for Georgia to have a shot in the EU.
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Rakas21
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#35
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#35
I must caution you all in regards to the economic effects of Georgian accent-ion, GDP per capita is not just below te EU mean but below the global mean, this is likely to lead to large capital outflows and immigration to the richer EU members.

Georgia is not yet ready.
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Faland
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#36
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#36
'Ascension' is something to do with Jesus, 'accession' is the appropriate word for this. As a secularist I'm voting against anything with such strong religious connotations.
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eff01
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#37
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#37
(Original post by JPKC)
'Ascension' is something to do with Jesus, 'accession' is the appropriate word for this. As a secularist I'm voting against anything with such strong religious connotations.
Haha! I was waiting for someone to point this lol
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Mechie
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Morgsie)
If the MHOC Votes against this then you will create a massive problem
I was going to abstain (as I think I have with most, of not all, treaties) but to find out that voting no would cause a problem I'm sorely tempted just to vote no. I think I will now. Thanks for convincing me :yy:
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Metrobeans
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#39
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#39
Division!!
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