kka25
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Ghost6)
Lol, I have stellar academics, have my fees paid by a departmental award and part of my living costs covered by the college, this for master's. The "advice" given here is purely hypothetical and the OP is free to implement it or not. I would not write anywhere I didn't finish a PhD and would rather fabricate a job or a trip around the world. But hey, you are free to be an honest loser if it makes you sleep better at night, if you can afford that in this economy.
Ghost6 that's unethical. It's frowned upon.

(Original post by gutenberg)
To the OP: do not make stuff up. It will come back to haunt you.
This. This. This.
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Nathanielle
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#22
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#22
@ghost: I think your underestimating employers and the difficulty to lie in the long run and with that I mean lying everytime you are confronted with your journey or meeting old colleagues from your university.

Why should an employer value a year round fun trip more than an abondened PHD for financial reasons? I am sure some people would prefer the experience and when someone is abandoning for financial reasons it is easy to call his/her former supervisor to check that up.

I just wanted to add an exemple: In the current economic climate, like in previous crisis some companies will have to "fire" some of their employees to be able to survive the crisis. When you decide which ones will have to go, you normally take strategic reasons (e.g. you concentrate on tables and the people making the chairs have to leave) and/or social reasons into consideration (you keep the family father and the young one without obligations has to go). Thus it is not so uncommon to have to leave your job without being "fired due to the low quality of your work". Sometimes the new employer will ring the old company up to get to know if it is true, that it has nothing to do with the work of the employee and that's it. You won't find false companies or world trips in their CVs and the employers know, that exspecially in hard times, everybody can get into this situation.
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sj27
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#23
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#23
Just to add a plea to the OP to not lie.

Remember if you caught lying about anything it calls into question everything else you've said. I don't know if Ghost actually believes what he's said or if he's trolling, but this is the kind of thing that can dog you forever. As an employer given the choice between someone who's honest about not having completed something (especially if due to financial reasons) and someone who gets caught in a lie, I can tell you without hesitation which person we'd go for. And we would not fudge the issue if called by another prospective employer and asked why X left the company, if X was fired after being found to have lied.
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threeportdrift
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#24
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#24
There's really not an issue for employers. Everyone knows PhDs are hard to fund, but you are pointing out you have the ability to work at that level. So it does no harm to a CV to put

2011-12 University of Wherever, PhD Nanotechnology, withdrew for financial reasons
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ThePants999
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#25
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#25
I'm very surprised to be the first to mention this, but if you use a word like "deferred", employers are going to assume that you're going to quit and go back to the PhD as soon as you're financially secure. Personally, when interviewing, I'd be much happier about someone having a change of heart and deciding PhD study wasn't for them, than someone who's just trying to raise funds to carry on with the PhD.
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geetar
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#26
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#26
As the user above me said, surely if you put 'deferred due to cost', the employer will assume you will work to raise the funds, and then leave again, which will obviously put a black mark against your name. I know you've all ripped into ghost for telling people to lie on their CV, but I would just say that I quit it voluntarily (and with a valid reason).
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Norton1
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#27
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#27
(Original post by geetar)
As the user above me said, surely if you put 'deferred due to cost', the employer will assume you will work to raise the funds, and then leave again, which will obviously put a black mark against your name. I know you've all ripped into ghost for telling people to lie on their CV, but I would just say that I quit it voluntarily (and with a valid reason).
Almost everyone lies on their CV, it's all about the lies you choose to tell. I'd do the same as you.
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gutenberg
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#28
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#28
(Original post by geetar)
As the user above me said, surely if you put 'deferred due to cost', the employer will assume you will work to raise the funds, and then leave again, which will obviously put a black mark against your name. I know you've all ripped into ghost for telling people to lie on their CV, but I would just say that I quit it voluntarily (and with a valid reason).

(Original post by Norton1)
Almost everyone lies on their CV, it's all about the lies you choose to tell. I'd do the same as you.
I agree with you that it's about phrasing, and you need to be careful not to give the impression that you're only working to gather some money together and go back to the PhD, as it will make things harder.

However Ghost was advocating making up a job, or a trip around the world, rather than admitting to withdrawing from a PhD, which is simply flat-out lying, and is absolutely awful advice.
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Dirac Delta Function
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Ghost6)
Not as long as they don't find out. Plus, you are only "lying" by omission, technically speaking, not inventing skills you don't have. Let's face it, everyone "embellishes" CV's, and a friend of mine got many scholarships that way.
"friend"?


It's really not a good idea to lie. OP has a reasonable excuse.
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Podcaster
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#30
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#30
(Original post by sj27)
Well, congratulations to your friend, but what happens when prospective employers want to discuss the countries he supposedly visited in an interview, or contact the employer where he supposedly worked full time? I can't honestly believe you are suggesting lying. People get fired for lying on their CVs, even from senior jobs, and that kind of f***s up your references etc from then on. As employers, we would not look down on someone who deferred study for financial reasons. And no, not everyone "embellishes" CVs. There are plenty of people who actually have integrity out there.
How would they ever find out? And **** integrity, it's a dog eat dog world out there. I admit pretending to be a doctor or pilot when you're not is too far but nothing wrong with a few lies here or there. Gotta put food on the table.
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DazA
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#31
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#31
(Original post by evantej)
I will ignore the actual question and deal with the financial aspect. There are a number of short and long-term solutions to your problem I feel.

First of all, if you are struggling for living costs then apply to your university's access to learning fund. They might make you an award of a couple of hundred pounds (I received £500 in my masters year, and something like £350 while at undergraduate level). Secondly, take a year off and try to earn some money. Thirdly, take out a career development loan for your living costs. You can borrow up to £10,000 in total. You need to be aware of the risks this poses though.

And finally, give up full-time study altogether. I think this is the most sensible option as part-time study would allow you to apply for Jobseeker's Allowance (maximum study time is 16 hours per week), which would take care of your immediate and long-term loving costs, and potentially make you eligible for other things like council-tax and housing benefit.

With a PhD, you obviously do not have formal classes so staying 'under' 16 hours is not a problem. If you struggle to find work then you still have some money coming in and you can use more time to improve your research. In fact you could be putting in full-time hours into your PhD so long as you are looking for some jobs as well.

I am resubmitting my masters dissertation at the moment. When I organised this with someone from my university, I was working full time, did not live anywhere near the university I studied at, and had a baby. I was given a rolling deadline in view of my circumstances (i.e. I would have little time to actually do the dissertation). Now that I am unemployed, I devote more time to my dissertation than before and only have to allocate x amount of my time for job seeking. I still obviously face some of the same difficulties, but I much prefer the current situation than working full-time and trying to fit some study in when I come back from work or over the weekend. In this sense, so long as you are working on your PhD you are doing something productive while you are 'unemployed'.

Studying part-time is underrated in my opinion.
THIS is the answer.

Very well put.



This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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Podcaster
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#32
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#32
(Original post by evantej)
And what happens if your new employer wants to see past wage slips because they are willing to match (or improve upon) your previous wage? And what happens when your new employer, you know, asks referees what you did?

What a completely moronic suggestion. It is not lying by omission (passive). You are deliberately fabricating the details of your CV to look better than they are (active), and then failing to tell them the truth (passive). It is deception. Someone was imprisoned last week for using false information on her CV.

Just because some employers do not check CVs as thoroughly as they should, does not make it right. Your friends have committed fraud by lying to obtain a scholarship.
Fake job is stupid but they cant prove anything for trip around the world. Even id they demanded to see they the plane tickets just say you threw them away as you have no reason to have kept them. if they want to see pics, how hard is it to jump on a plane to Spain for a few snaps? or Photoshop. i'm surprised at the amount of dogooders on this site. If you knew your lie would never be found out and it didn't affect your ability to do the job in any way what argument is there for not lying? Who cares about ethics? Do you know or care about your rival for the job? No.
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DazA
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#33
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#33
It ALWAYS comes out in the wash. Do not lie!
You'll be screwd if, for your job you need a:
Enhanced CRB
Security Clearance
Developed Vetting

There's nothing wrong with deferring a Phd for financial reasons.


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poohat
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Ghost6)
It is very easy to come up with a reason not to provide them. Also, you are not going to fabricate some CEO position to embellish a CV and no one will bother checking references for some ordinary job anyone with a half functioning brain can do. Also, it is generally advised to use a bankrupt company as former workplace to avoid the problem of references entirely.
This really depends on the field, if you are working in something that is (eg) FSA regulated like trading floor positions in ibanks, you can expect a pretty detailed background check to be carried out.

I mean dont get me wrong, I would probably also recommend leaving a PhD that you left in first year off your CV, but its not as simple as "noone will bother checking". The exception might be if your PhD instiute was vastly more prestigious than your undergrad one in which case the mere fact that you got accepted might be a positive CV signal, but even then you would need to have a really good reason for why you dropped out to avoid the "it was too hard for them" stigma.
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evantej
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Podcaster)
Fake job is stupid but they cant prove anything for trip around the world. Even id they demanded to see they the plane tickets just say you threw them away as you have no reason to have kept them. if they want to see pics, how hard is it to jump on a plane to Spain for a few snaps? or Photoshop. i'm surprised at the amount of dogooders on this site. If you knew your lie would never be found out and it didn't affect your ability to do the job in any way what argument is there for not lying? Who cares about ethics? Do you know or care about your rival for the job? No.
You sound like a psychopath.
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