Is Feminism over? Watch

silence
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#21
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#21
i do actually; i'm a subscriber.
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Ferrus
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#22
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#22
(Original post by silence)
i do actually; i'm a subscriber.
This would be a prime example of when the phrase "owned" was adroitly used.
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Exoskeletal
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#23
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#23
ah right. pwnd indeed.

fair does.
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black_mamba
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#24
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(Original post by chrissy909)
Personally I associate feminism with angry women who refuse to shave/burn their bras but likewise I agree with some of the original issues. Can feminism still exist in the naughties or is it totally over!?
I think your definition of a feminist is very out of date. Its a real shame but a few extremists (and often, anti-male! :eek:) women call go under the banner of feminism and give the rest of us a bad name. The movement has become so deluded and mixed up its very difficult trying to convince your friends you're not a man hater. :rolleyes:

I was really into the whole riot grrl movement a while ago (young women's feminist groups) and we were really into activism. Eventually I realised that it was quite short sighted (lots of concentration on beauty, the media, and getting women into rock music etc.) and my views slightly conflicted with the other members, so my interest stopped. I still occasionally read one of the member’s websites (she writes for the guardian I think) tis a very good site, but I don't always agree with the opinions expressed on it:

www.thefword.org.uk

I think the western world is pretty darn fair to both sexes, not completely of course, but equal enough in its treatment of both genders to allow me to pursue my male dominated hobbies and career and whatnot. Maybe my mind will change when I enter the workplace…

If I wanted to call myself a feminist, I'd be trying to actively make a difference to women in trouble, and I think western women can do that on their own. At the moment I still adopt a general feminist attitude (that of appreciating both sexes), but I don't put aside time to campaigning against, for example, gender-specific punishment for crimes in the middle east.

This is something I'm not 100% about - am I a feminist even though I don't get involved in activism anymore? And who cares what I call myself, its the actions that count, right?
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dyslexic_banana
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#25
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(Original post by Exoskeletal)
agreed.
All men should be feminists too. it's merely about striving for equality of treatment and oppurtunity.
I know quite a few men who call themselves feminists.
I am also a feminist, and i wear bras and shave my legs and wear make up.

people should be careful not to lump radical and liberal (or even socialist) feminists together.

I don' think feminism is dead.
look at the UN for example, the representatives of nearly all the countries in the world... and how many are women?
very few.
surely 50% should be women, as 50% of the world's population is female!
It is meant to be a world forum, but women are disasterously underrepresented. and women also only own 1% of the land in the world.

We still have so much to achieve, but i am so greatful to the women of the past for my life today. i can drive, vote, work, get an education, say no to sex and yes to contraception.
These things are still impossible for many millions of women across the planet.
And what is to be done about cases of sexism against men? How is it fair that it should be seen as OK for a woman to hit a man, but not for a man to hit a woman? How is it fair that men should be expected to pay for women? How is it fair that women should be awarded custody of their children in 95% of cases? How is it fair that men should be portrayed as incompetent idiots, both in advertisments and programmes? How is it fair that men should usually lose out so badly, when it comes to divorce cases?

My gripe with feminists is that they see things only from their own point of view; inequalities are all but ignored totally, when they disadvantage men, in today's world. And while I've at least, when arguments such as this have come up before, tried to offer explanations as to seeming inequalities against women, no-one ever seems to make any attempt at explaining cases of discrimination against men, that I bring up; this says it all.
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black_mamba
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#26
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#26
(Original post by dyslexic_banana)
My gripe with feminists is that they see things only from their own point of view
But thats the whole point of the movement. Read this:

http://www.thefword.org.uk/features/...sts_are_sexist

There are plenty of male-centric movements too, ya'know.
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c0co
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#27
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#27
(Original post by dyslexic_banana)
And what is to be done about cases of sexism against men? How is it fair that it should be seen as OK for a woman to hit a man, but not for a man to hit a woman? How is it fair that men should be expected to pay for women? How is it fair that women should be awarded custody of their children in 95% of cases? How is it fair that men should be portrayed as incompetent idiots, both in advertisments and programmes? How is it fair that men should usually lose out so badly, when it comes to divorce cases?

My gripe with feminists is that they see things only from their own point of view; inequalities are all but ignored totally, when they disadvantage men, in today's world. And while I've at least, when arguments such as this have come up before, tried to offer explanations as to seeming inequalities against women, no-one ever seems to make any attempt at explaining cases of discrimination against men, that I bring up; this says it all.
I think originally women were coming from a place of feeling opressed in society, not having the vote or any kind of equality in the workplace. What your talkin about is 'reverse discrimination' which is more of a backlash post the main jist of the feminist movement. Women were fighting for equality not the rights to abuse men and get away with it. Although I agree it is wrong that 95% of women can get custody of children, and it seems unfair that women can publish books and articles depicting men as senseless idiots who think with their penis's and if a man did the same, there would be a national uproar.
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dyslexic_banana
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#28
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I have no gripe with the original concept of feminism; believe it or not, I admire it; women used to be treated terribly, I admit. But any woman who calls herself a 'feminist', in this day and age, is merely a sexist who 'conveniently' ignores examples of sexism against men (of which there are countless). The typical feministic argument doesn't go very far beyond the 'men still earn more than money, and hold more positions of power' tripe; how small-minded and idiotic those must be, who think that this is proof conclusive that it is a man's world; as if it's all about how much money one earns; as if men aren't judged more, in accordance with how much they earn, anyway; as if this is necessarily all down to discrimination, anyway.

I agree with what you say, and you seem to talk of feminism in the past; where it well and truly belongs.
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Exoskeletal
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#29
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#29
(Original post by dyslexic_banana)
And what is to be done about cases of sexism against men? How is it fair that it should be seen as OK for a woman to hit a man, but not for a man to hit a woman? How is it fair that men should be expected to pay for women? How is it fair that women should be awarded custody of their children in 95% of cases? How is it fair that men should be portrayed as incompetent idiots, both in advertisments and programmes? How is it fair that men should usually lose out so badly, when it comes to divorce cases?

My gripe with feminists is that they see things only from their own point of view; inequalities are all but ignored totally, when they disadvantage men, in today's world. And while I've at least, when arguments such as this have come up before, tried to offer explanations as to seeming inequalities against women, no-one ever seems to make any attempt at explaining cases of discrimination against men, that I bring up; this says it all.
I don't think it's ok to hit men.
My parents are divorced and my mum did not sting my dad for all he has, and us kids lived with each parents 50-50. shared.
I do agree with you that men are often represented as stupid in adverts for domestic products (but i don't watch TV, it's too irritating). But similar stereotypes have been made of women in the media over the years. It's best to disregard them.

However feminist is not the same as sexist (as you say in you last post).
Feminism is anti-sexism.
I am a feminist. I do not hate men. i like them, even love some. I see them as equal and as companions, not as the enemy, or oppressors.
I think this is the modern feminism.
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black_mamba
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#30
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#30
(Original post by dyslexic_banana)
But any woman who calls herself a 'feminist', in this day and age, is merely a sexist who 'conveniently' ignores examples of sexism against men (of which there are countless).
I take it this is your opinion rather than fact, because in either case its misjudged and mostly wrong, not to mention offensive. A lot of intelligent feminists (some of whom are men, shock horror) understand how the relationship between female and male opression works and choose not to ignore it, some do, but simply ignoring one gender's issues in light of looking after heir own rights isn't inherently sexist. :rolleyes:

The typical feministic argument doesn't go very far beyond the 'men still earn more than money, and hold more positions of power' tripe; how small-minded and idiotic those must be
What feminist writings are you reading? Are they even up to date? Seriously...
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Lush Law
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#31
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#31
Feminism isn't over but it's not as prominent as it used to be. It's had its hey day if you like.

My personal views on feminism is that it has done a lot of very useful things. I think it was obviously a necessary movement, but now it can be taken too far by some women. Like a girl who lives near me at uni, she goes "the man should do everything, I'm never lifting a finger" - and she was being serious. She's a total hardcore feminist. And it's like, no love. You're stupid, and ignorant. Surely equality is the only way forward, right?

Stuff your sodding Germaine bloody Greer. Despite this, I do have respect for feminists who went all out there for womens rights when it was really important, but pathetic feminism and women who treat their husbands like **** really annoy me.
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black_mamba
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#32
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#32
Greer was never anti-men. (Was she?!) :confused:
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c0co
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#33
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#33
(Original post by black_mamba)
Greer was never anti-men. (Was she?!) :confused:
She argued that women don't realize how much men how them and they are taught to hate themselves, and are being brought up being told to hate their sexuality. So I don't think she hated all men, I think she just hated what she thought men had done to women!?
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black_mamba
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#34
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Really? Wow, I had no idea. From reading a few of her books and seeing her on the telly, I'd never have thought she was so bitter about 'what men have done to women', or should that be 'what women allowed themselves to become'? Just kidding!
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conservativebohemian
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#35
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As long as there are women authors and female doctors, feminism will not be over. As long as women earn less money for the same amount of work, feminism won't go anywhere. And quite frankly, it shouldn't.
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clyn
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#36
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#36
we could do with a new movement, "feminism"'s just become a nasty old word.
Have you seen that "new feminist" woman who's put a picture of herself naked on the front of her book? (That wasn't me making a point, but if I use that description, people may know who I'm on about, by the way).
Personally, I don't hate men, I get on better with men than women but I'm not going to apologise for feeling that the mother should get custody more often than the father, if she's fit for it. Incidentally, more and more well-off women are having to pay their ex-husbands an alllowance- is that still "wrong"? How about the woman who build up her career as a solicitor and had to give her husband half of her own money (yes, even the money in her own account had to be split) and has sole custody of her children- because he doesn't want to see them.?
It's paranoid idiots who point the finger and dribble on about a sex war and say feminism is dead and buried who bugger it all up for everyone.
If people are treated as individuals then things'll be okay, it's when you get generic that the problems start. But it won't get better if no-one does anything about it.
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mancsmithsfan
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#37
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feminism will never be over .... why is there no male equivalent apart from misogyny which is flagrant hatred? Because men are sometimes discriminated againts (i.e rights to visit children etc).
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dyslexic_banana
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#38
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#38
(Original post by conservativeboheamian)
As long as women earn less money for the same amount of work, feminism won't go anywhere.
And what evidence do you have to suggest that women do earn less for the same amount of work?

(Original post by clyn)
Personally, I don't hate men, I get on better with men than women but I'm not going to apologise for feeling that the mother should get custody more often than the father, if she's fit for it.
I agree; and, in the same way, I'm not going to apologise that men should get top managerial positions more often than women, if they're fit for it.

(Original post by mancsmithsfan)
feminism will never be over .... why is there no male equivalent apart from misogyny which is flagrant hatred?
There is, unofficially; just that any man who speaks up for men's rights gets labelled as a 'misogynist', immediately.
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supernova2
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#39
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#39
Yes it over, now shutup and get back to the dishes!






Just kidding
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black_mamba
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#40
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#40
(Original post by clyn)
I'm not going to apologise for feeling that the mother should get custody more often than the father, if she's fit for it.
Thats fine (your opinion and all that...) but I see that as being prejudice against good fathers, surely that statement goes against what you later said: 'treating people as individuals'? Although, you never did say whether you were pro or anti feminism. *confused*. :p:
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