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how old before someone *knows* they're gay watch

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    Although this doesn't really answer the question, I think, for a long time, that society has damaged the way we think about sexuality by forcing us to categorise as straight, bi or gay. Really, I think sexuality in humanity is more flexible than that, only we've spent centuries putting boxes around it. The Ancient World had this enlightened sort of view, and it was the accepted philosophy in Ancient Greece that a man could - and should - be equally attracted to both men and women.

    I think our generation is coming round (out?) to acknowledging this idea more so than preceding ones. I don't think we're so boxed in about the idea of strict sexuality. All bi, I suppose. Monkeys, as well, are not hesitant about... fraternising with the same sex, and I've always held the belief that monkeys can tell us a lot about the true subconscious psyches of humans - that is, what raw human psychology is like before it is shuttered by centuries of social conditioning.

    I would always have categorised (ugly word) myself as straight, but I've never quite been able to shake an attraction to David Bowie in his younger years . God, that just looks so tragic.
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    (Original post by UtterNutter69)
    You bat for the blue team then?

    I dont think anyone is born fighting for the dark side, I mean you dont have any feelings about anything like that when you're a baby, over time you realise that you actually like Hugh Grant films more than you do Sean Bean films (or if you're a girl you decide that you prefer you're hair short and spikey rather than long).
    Wow! You've just broken the world record for number of offensive/absurd stereotypes in one post! Also - if you argue that no one is born gay, you must argue that no one is born straight. Babies do not have homosexual feelings - true, but they don't have heterosexual feelings either.
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    (Original post by Chumbaniya)
    Wow! You've just broken the world record for number of offensive/absurd stereotypes in one post! Also - if you argue that no one is born gay, you must argue that no one is born straight. Babies do not have homosexual feelings - true, but they don't have heterosexual feelings either.
    You just have to ignore this poster [utternutter]. Otherwise you'd go mad trying to explain the simplest things in pointless arguments...round in circles.

    Babies wouldn't be able to express it anyway if they had sexual feelings, but obviously they don't. However, I don't think you can argue that because heterosexuality must somehow be hard-wired into people so that they will procreate.

    Before I start some kind of debate, I'd just like to explain my personal stance...I am attracted to personalities, not genders. I might change in the future, but I don't really feel like there is a difference between the male and female people I get crushes on, aside from the obvious physical ones. I don't think it's wise to give yourself restrictions by saying "I'm gay" or "I'm straight". Maybe it will change in future, I'm only 17.

    As for the people who say "we always knew so and so was gay, he always preferred his sister's Barbies to the meccano sets we bought him in vain"...I think a lot of that is looking back with hindsight, trying to find clues. I doubt that there's all that much logic to kid's play.
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    (Original post by Anthony Arundel)
    Although this doesn't really answer the question, I think, for a long time, that society has damaged the way we think about sexuality by forcing us to categorise as straight, bi or gay. Really, I think sexuality in humanity is more flexible than that, only we've spent centuries putting boxes around it. The Ancient World had this enlightened sort of view, and it was the accepted philosophy in Ancient Greece that a man could - and should - be equally attracted to both men and women.

    I think our generation is coming round (out?) to acknowledging this idea more so than preceding ones. I don't think we're so boxed in about the idea of strict sexuality. All bi, I suppose. Monkeys, as well, are not hesitant about... fraternising with the same sex, and I've always held the belief that monkeys can tell us a lot about the true subconscious psyches of humans - that is, what raw human psychology is like before it is shuttered by centuries of social conditioning.
    I'm not sure. You might be right, but although I find girls attractive physically, I would never be sexually attracted to them. The thought doesn't repulse me or anything, it's just not something I can imagine being part of me. I'm attracted to guys, and that's the way it is. I don't think, in my case, sexuality is flexible. Although I think the philosophy of the Ancient World of choice without taboo was a rather useful one.
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    I hope that on my death-bed (king-size, penthouse suite, swish hotel in London, hopefully) I still won't be able to answer that question. I agree with what certain people have said or repeated here - that the whole question of someone's sexuality is one of labelling, not of scientific precision. No one is born straight, nor are they born gay, and indeed they are not even born bisexual. There is no such thing as sexuality at birth, in my humble, unsupported, flippant opinion.

    Despite this, I was discussing with my mother the other day (she had gotten angry at me for stereotyping lesbians...but before you all attack me with your diy kits (sorry couldn't resist) read on) the fact that people who allign themselves to a certain sexuality often share traits. Of couse somethings, such as that spiky hair-style that a number of saphic ladies employ, are presumably due to environment - an establishment of identity. Yet other things seem more..natural. For example, one stereotypical attribute of the gay man is a light, higher-than-most, whispy voice (what an awful descriptio...erm think the vocal equivalent of an aero). This can occur at a very early age. And I don't think one can simply say that this is some kind of emulation of the "gay prototype". I argue this because that voice can occasionally creep into my speech, yet I abhor it (because it fits so well into the stereotype and I'm enough of a cliche as it is). I would never try to consciously replicate dale winton's idiolect in an attempt to define my self as gay (which if you remember, I would not hasten to do anyway, because they're only labels, even if they do have to be employed sometimes merely for ease), and would hope that my subconscious has enough decency to follow suit.
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    I work with a lot of gay people (I work at House of Fraser...). And its is pretty obvious who is gay and who isnt so there must be some stereotypical values attached....

    And I do think babies are born heterosexual, and its probably more a mixture of someones body conditioning (eg hormones) and social conditioning to whether they turn out gay or not. Sorry for being really un PC but I do think its more natural for humans to be heteros although theres nothing wrong with finding someone of your own sex attractive (more to do with jealousy) you dont neccesarily find them sexually attractive.
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    MAny people dont realise until they are very old ... i think it is sad when people feel for what ever reason cant come out or convince hem selves they are stright i think they should feel able to come out and realise there sexuality earlier and therefor waste no tme living a life they dont enjoy.

    Then others know from when they are little, in a school my friend did work experience in there was a little boy off 4 who dressed in girls clothes and was convinced he was a girl in a boys body .. and he was 4 .. so i guess when you know you know what ever age.
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    (Original post by Sithius)
    I would say its different.

    It's possible to know you're gay at 7 for example. At 7 I found certain girls pretty, I don't see why a male homosexual can't find a boy pretty at a young age.
    Meh - there's a difference between appreciating 'prettiness' and being attracted to someone.
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    (Original post by supernova2)
    Sorry for being really un PC
    Never be sorry for that.
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    I've never really been attracted to girls. In primary school I sorta had a crush on a boy, and I sometimes felt that something was different, but it wasn't until like year 7/8 that I started to think of myself as different and then as gay, then I came out in late year 9. It's a thing that varies for everyone, somepeople alledge to always knowing, others don't realise until they're 60.

    I was reading a scientific psychology journal the other day, an article called "Sexuality and Choice". It basically was talking about how sexuality is not defined as option 1, 2 or 3, but on a continuum, upon which people may move, although exceptionally rarely by choice. Basically, everyone has the potential to be anywhere on a spectrum from totally gay to totally straight, and sexuality is a thing which may develop over the course of a lifespan.

    Interestingly enough, you know how sometimes boys who are straight have a little "confused" spat when they get a crush on another boy, but then it goes away? I got the same thing, but on a girl. At the time I'd realised I was attracted to guys, but I developed a small crush on my now best friend Sooz. It didn't last long, but looking back I find it kinda funny the way it went the other way for me than it does to other confused boys lol.
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    I'm still curious now, so I just tend to say i'm 'bi' to people, as thats a lot easier for them to understand.
    I seem to go through different stages, and it wasn't until about a year ago that I realised how much my resistence was affecting my judgement and how it was affecting me emotionally.

    Tbh, I don't think i'll ever be 100% anything, and I don't believe anyone can be, as convinced as they think they are.

    I don't see what benefit grouping yourself has anyway, so I don't see why people are so adament that they are gay or straight, when really it's just a state that they've convinced themselves that they are in. People have this very annoying tendency into pushing you into making a decision you are unable to make, and it can often be emotionally quite a harmful experience.
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    I realised that I was gay when I was 13, but in hindsight I guess I always was for as long as I can remember. I was never interested in girls and always had crushes on boys, going back to infants school.

    It was still terribly difficult to deal with at the time, because I had very prudish conservative values and I had to realise gradually that there was nothing wrong with bieng gay (I eventually came out at 20).

    I now see my particular brand of homosexuality as being a very positive thing for me as an individual, but I also see a lot of damaging things occuring in the gay community, which distress me - because I have retained a lot of my strong moral code and I do not approve of the amount of meaningless, promiscuous sex engaged in by a lot of gay men.

    I guess it's the same for most people though.
    My opinion is that an emotional bond is what is primarily important - and in this respect sexuality takes a secondary position behind love or some other emotional concept.
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    (Original post by gideon2000uk)
    I now see my particular brand of homosexuality as being a very positive thing for me as an individual, but I also see a lot of damaging things occuring in the gay community, which distress me - because I have retained a lot of my strong moral code and I do not approve of the amount of meaningless, promiscuous sex engaged in by a lot of gay men.
    That's always been my opinion too...but for me that might just be down to envy.
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    I do not approve of the amount of meaningless, promiscuous sex engaged in by a lot of gay men.
    Agreed. Some of the stories I hear really do sicken me. Stories like guys have one night stands every night and having literally hundreds of sexual partners; if anything they propagate the homophobic stereotypes that many of us have to fight so hard against. This is why in parts I am a little opposed to having entirely seperate societies almost. I was flipping through the Pink Paper some time ago and in the back I found adverts for gay estate agents, gay plumbers, gay directory enquiries (118 GAY if you're interested), gay bakers, and it seemed ridiculous to me, it seems only to promote segregation.
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    (Original post by championhopper)
    for me;
    - i 'fell' for a girl at 14 but maintained i was straight and this was an anomaly amongst my 'crushes'
    - a couple of years later i began to like other girls and thought i was bi
    - and then two years after that i'm quite sure i'm gay as i like girls exclusively
    let's tell u our story:

    1- I was born into an ultra-conservative family with some ridiculously radical views about homosexuality

    2- I had my first crush on a classmate at the age of 12 (not sexually though)

    3- After that I was homophobic for two years, thinking that it would show me as straight as straight as straight can be

    4- I turned totally gay at the age of 16

    5- I remain gay and will stay this way for the rest of my life


    Overall, I always fantasized about other boys, classmates, those I met in the gym, etc. etc. So I would say i knew i was gay since the age of 11 or 10.
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    I realised when I was 13, but looking back I always had crushes on boys and never girls, despite having a "girlfriend"! Came out to people gradually when I was 14. Coming out wasn't really the hard part, it was finding a time to do it. It felt weird to just say "oh by the way I'm gay" so it took me a while to come out to everyone. In fact the last few people I came out to was involuntary due to someone letting slip who I fancied (unintentionally). God that was horrible!
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    My turn...

    I had a girl freind from age 5 to 10. when whe was 10 i shared my first kiss with her, and i didn't enjoy it. i found it very unconfortable, and looking back it was probebly the first sign that i was gay.

    When i was 14 i fancied and fantisied over some of my mail freinds.

    When i was 15 i was set up with this Girl, to be my girlfreind, again i never felt confortable with the arrangement and broke it off after 3 days

    at the age of 16 i supressed most of these feeling and started chasing girl's but to no avail. i was an extreamly confused young individual. this happed untill i was 19

    at the age of 18 i came out to some of my freinds as bi.

    last year (xmas 2005) when i was 19 1/2 i started to realise that i in fact didn't like girls in that way, and i was infact gay.

    summer 2006 the realisation was final and now most of my freinds know that i'm gay, but i've never told my parents. thats the next step
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    I think a person can only know for sure part way through puberty. I think thats when sexual attraction becomes fully realised. I do think there are many shades of grey between gay and straight. Society puts people into groups of straight and other. Pressure from family and friends, moving out of comfortable territory, fear of rejection and hate, a big gap between the gay and straight community. Its sad.
 
 
 
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