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Clever people in the navy/armed forces...... is it really worth it?? watch

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    People who think they are 'better' because they have a degree clearly don't know what the RAF is about ultimately. However, there is clearly something gained in having a degree, the stats show that vis a vis success rates in training.

    I would argue that all your achievements, annual appraisals etc may well be effective in gaining you a commission, but a degree would almost certainly have been a quicker route, and one that gave you seniority/increased financial returns over your current route. I guess that you will have served for about 5 years before you march into your first JO office? Simple maths, join as an Airman, spend the best part of a year in various elements of training, won't be seriously considered for anything promotion commissioning wise before 3 ARs, then min 6 months going through the process, then at least a year going through IOT and professional training - little if any change out of 5 years, nearer 6. Your degree taking contemporary will have spent 3 years doing underwater basket weaving at Uni, a year doing IOT/professional training, and will have the best part of a tour under their belt when you join them in the Mess. I'm not saying that your decision is wrong at all, what I am suggesting is that there is, for the majority, a more efficient route that the RAF is more geared up to accepting.

    There are, of course, alternatives to having a degree, but the evidence is that just being a determined DE with loads of extra-curriculars isn't the most effective one.

    If someone implies they are 'better' in some way because they have a degree, treat them like the pr*t they are, but appreciate that they are offering the RAF some proof of ability in the context that the RAF wants.
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    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    won't be seriously considered for anything promotion commissioning wise before 3 ARs
    Hmm if AR = annual report like I think it does.... let's hope they make an exception for me!
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    (Original post by M!ke)
    Hmm let's hope they make an exception for me!
    Well, if I recall my AR writing experience, which as aircrew was not extensive, I don't think there was a limit set on when an RO could tick the 'suitable for commissioning box'. However, consider it like a promotion - for that, the board looks at the past 3 years reports, because that is the length of time judged necessary to (as required) a) overcome any minor screw ups and b) prove a consistent track record. Can't see any reason why it would be different for commissioning.

    Furthermore, by going for a very early commission from the ranks, there could always be the inferrence that either the airman, or the Service, made a mistake in judging their initial aptitude and potential. Just playing devils advocate here, but if the airman made the misjudgement about their own potential - what does that say about their Flt Cdr potential, self awareness etc. If the Service made a mistake....well you know finding a confession like that is hen's teeth territory!

    I am pretty certain that the AR guidance is on the intranet now. Try and look it up and find the 1st RO's guidance on which and when they can tick boxes. There are also regs on airmen being able to go for commissioning without the usual quals - what are the time limits on that?
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    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    Well, if I recall my AR writing experience, which as aircrew was not extensive, I don't think there was a limit set on when an RO could tick the 'suitable for commissioning box'. However, consider it like a promotion - for that, the board looks at the past 3 years reports, because that is the length of time judged necessary to (as required) a) overcome any minor screw ups and b) prove a consistent track record. Can't see any reason why it would be different for commissioning.

    Furthermore, by going for a very early commission from the ranks, there could always be the inferrence that either the airman, or the Service, made a mistake in judging their initial aptitude and potential. Just playing devils advocate here, but if the airman made the misjudgement about their own potential - what does that say about their Flt Cdr potential, self awareness etc. If the Service made a mistake....well you know finding a confession like that is hen's teeth territory!

    I am pretty certain that the AR guidance is on the intranet now. Try and look it up and find the 1st RO's guidance on which and when they can tick boxes. There are also regs on airmen being able to go for commissioning without the usual quals - what are the time limits on that?
    It's a 3rd RO that reccomends for commissioning/NCA. In my case, my JEngO. You can apply any time in your career. I have read they call for your last 3 ARs from PMA, doesn't say you need 3 though.

    I was told by an OC of a local AFCO that the key to passing OASC is spin. You need to make everything your advantage. So I need a way of turning the point you raised round to sound good!

    The service did make a mistake! I applied for ALM, and was told my eyesight was fine. Application forms were in, studying was well on the way, and P2 presentation was under the belt. Off I trundled to my filter interview, get called into the Flt Lieu's office......

    "I'm ever so sorry, your eyesight doesn't meet the required standards for any NCA." (Lies!)

    Bugger

    "Though about going into a ground trade?"

    And here I am!


    Quals wise:

    On completion of basic trade training and under 5 years reckonable service

    5 x GCSEs at grade C or above (including English Language, Mathematics and three other acceptable subjects - or equivalents)
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    You might not join the forces for the money, but looking at it, you get a hell of a lot of money for the job, considering 99.9% of people aren't doing it purely for the money.

    (By the way, what is all this "not doing it for the money" lark, would you still join if they didn't pay you?)
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    (Original post by DPM)
    (By the way, what is all this "not doing it for the money" lark, would you still join if they didn't pay you?)
    I might as well be doing it for free with Glasgow at the desk!
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    (Original post by Steve Stifler)
    I might as well be doing it for free with Glasgow at the desk!
    Well I've only had £187 for over 6 months, and they took tax aswell!

    (TA is different though, I would probably do it even if I didn't get paid, the money just helps.)
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    (Original post by DPM)
    Well I've only had £187 for over 6 months, and they took tax aswell!

    (TA is different though, I would probably do it even if I didn't get paid, the money just helps.)
    Dude, I got paid more than that in cash at Catterick just for a week of beasting lol. Pay day is this Wednesday so you might get something then. When did you get your number?
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    (Original post by Steve Stifler)
    Dude, I got paid more than that in cash at Catterick just for a week of beasting lol. Pay day is this Wednesday so you might get something then. When did you get your number?
    I've had my number since january. Managed to get into armynet now aswell.
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    (Original post by DPM)
    I've had my number since january. Managed to get into armynet now aswell.
    Did you not have a drop in sesh around end of March/start of April with your clerk to sort out pay issues before new tax year?

    Are you 2521?
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    The fact is that having a degree doesn't mean that you are more intelligent than a specific person who doesn't have a degree, but it does mean that you have provided proof that you have a certain level of intelligence, which a person who has not taken a degree has not proven in that same way.

    A degree from a UK University is a reasonably standardised indication of a level of academic ability, an ability to absorb and apply information, as well as a maturity in managing one's life independent of home etc.

    The fact, from the employer's point of view, is that people with degrees do substanially better in training than those without.
    Now here was me thinking the RAF valued the individual, took each person on their own merits. Huh guess I was wrong then?

    Why, if I have a degree in Golf Course Management or Surfing, yes they are "real" courses, get more money than someone who actually has some experience of the wider world?

    The RAF affords benefit though increased seniority to those that have proven their level of intelligence, rather than those that cannot provide that same level of proof.
    So degree's are the only way of proving intelligence?

    I stand by the point that if you've chosen to go to uni and get a degree fine, that was your choice not the RAF's. Why should they pay you more? You haven't proven anything other than you can waste 3-4 years of your life by getting a degree which won't be relvant to your job anyway! A degree is not an entry requirement (those that require them aside from this argument obviously) so why should you be worth more, if this was anything else this would be favouritism. I've got a BTEC, thats not an entry requirement either, why shouldn't I get paid more? At least mines relevant to my job.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rotters
    I don't have a degree does that mean im not clever?

    I'm afraid so!!!
    Thanks mate :p:
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    (Original post by Steve Stifler)
    Did you not have a drop in sesh around end of March/start of April with your clerk to sort out pay issues before new tax year?

    Are you 2521?
    How did you work that out? My AO is in Liverpool, spoken to her on the phone many times but never actually seen her, I live in Manchester and North Wales so to be awkward they gave me an admin unit in liverpool.
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    (Original post by DPM)
    How did you work that out? My AO is in Liverpool, spoken to her on the phone many times but never actually seen her, I live in Manchester and North Wales so to be awkward they gave me an admin unit in liverpool.
    Coz the guys just passed out of phase one are 2521 lol. Yeah, sounds pretty helpful to give you a contact in another city where you can't actually sit down and look through paperwork together :rolleyes:
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    Going back to the importance of a degree up until 1985 (I don't have any more recent figures) only 2 of all the CASs were graduates, food for thought at least.
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    (Original post by Steve Stifler)
    Coz the guys just passed out of phase one are 2521 lol. Yeah, sounds pretty helpful to give you a contact in another city where you can't actually sit down and look through paperwork together :rolleyes:
    Ahh, first four numbers, I thought they were my last 4 numbers. Maybe I'll get transferred to 3RWR soon, put them top of the list of my choices
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    oH and another point of note; my father was one of those bods who joined the RAF thinking he was overqualified or too clever for it; he almost failed IOT and stuggled to get Sqn Ldr (only getting it after his 16 years was up as he had an extra year added on for his masters) before the end of his commission.
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    (Original post by DPM)
    Ahh, first four numbers, I thought they were my last 4 numbers. Maybe I'll get transferred to 3RWR soon, put them top of the list of my choices
    Lol don't tell me 2521 are your last four too? My first four are 2519 (Oct 04). How far have you got to go until you complete training? Or do they not let you do any proper stuff until you commission?
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    (Original post by Steve Stifler)
    Lol don't tell me 2521 are your last four too? My first four are 2519 (Oct 04). How far have you got to go until you complete training? Or do they not let you do any proper stuff until you commission?
    My last four numbers are totally different - 8290, I just wasn't thinking properly.

    We do Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4 (CC at RMAS), just like OTC, but with the extra stuff the OTC don't do like CBRN. Then there's Mod5 as a 2Lt. Hopefully I'll get to train with my unit before I commission. Can't really do anything with the Signals now, as you need to be trade trained. I will have done a lot of the Inf. stuff so hopefully I can do that sort of stuff if I change unit.
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    (Original post by DPM)
    My last four numbers are totally different - 8290, I just wasn't thinking properly.

    We do Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4 (CC at RMAS), just like OTC, but with the extra stuff the OTC don't do like CBRN. Then there's Mod5 as a 2Lt. Hopefully I'll get to train with my unit before I commission. Can't really do anything with the Signals now, as you need to be trade trained. I will have done a lot of the Inf. stuff so hopefully I can do that sort of stuff if I change unit.
    Ah right, I take it the Mods are equivalent to MTQs? How far are you now? Also, where do you fit into the orbat at the moment? Recruit (phase one not passed)? Qualified soldier, but unqualified infanteer (phase one passed)? Trained soldier (phase 2 passed)?

    What exercises have you done with the company so far or are you still with the RTT?
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    I'm still on Mod1, seems to be taking forever. 3 weekends left until I start Mod2.
 
 
 
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