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parag
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#21
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#21
(Original post by iceman_jondoe)
honestly i dont know how the hell some people got higher than like 15 it annoys me when i found it bloody hard and got a measly 13.5 and most people on here got like 18 19 grr
If it makes you feel any better mate, I made educated guesses for more than half of my answers...I thought I'd really messed it up, almost ruined my Diwali!
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hakking
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Madprof)
... you got a good chance of getting into Cam with a score much lower than that too!

From the results sheet I got, only the top 2-3% in each section got over 7. Since there are only four medical schools that ask for the BMAT (and you can only apply to Oxford or Cambridge), a rather small amount of Cambridge offers will be to people with over 7 in sections one and two. Obviously a better mark can only look good, but so many other things are so much more important that the difference between 6 6 and 7 7 is minimal.
Thats based on the assumption that the number of people taking the BMAT is quite small. Trust me go for 7, Cambs said in my feedback that the BMAt was the only thing that let me down and i got 19.6, I think if you get a total of about 21+ and you dont screw up the interview your very likely to get into Cambs. I honestly think Cambs put more emohasis on the BMat than many of you think. My friend who applied to a diff college had similar feedback. So work hard for your BMAT by getting used to question style and try and develop your thinking skills over the summer hols. At least you'll know you've done the best you could've after the BMAT.
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Madprof
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#23
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#23
Hakking, I'm sorry to hear about your Cambridge application , really hope you had better luck at your other places.
(Original post by Hakking)
Thats based on the assumption that the number of people taking the BMAT is quite small. Trust me go for 7, Cambs said in my feedback that the BMAt was the only thing that let me down and i got 19.6, I think if you get a total of about 21+ and you dont screw up the interview your very likely to get into Cambs. I honestly think Cambs put more emohasis on the BMat than many of you think. My friend who applied to a diff college had similar feedback. So work hard for your BMAT by getting used to question style and try and develop your thinking skills over the summer hols. At least you'll know you've done the best you could've after the BMAT.
The number of people taking the BMAT is 'quite small'!

(According to UCAS Statistical Enquiry, there were 7959 applications for medicine 2005 entry at the four universities asking for the BMAT. Even if no-one applied for more than one of these places, the number of people who got 6.9 or more in for example section one is (using BMAT 2004 figures) 1% of 7959, which is 80 people.)

Certainly not enough people taking it to get 300 or so (ie all the Cambridge offerees) with 7 7 - this is my point. Of course you aim for the best you can, but even to get a score of 'about 21+' you certainly don't need to be getting 7s in the first two sections. Like I said, revise the GCSE Science/Maths and do the specimen paper to get yourself familiar with the question style. That's all you need, or indeed can, do.

There's minimal practice that can be done, thus target-setting is not that productive - you'll do as well as you are able, motivating yourself with targets isn't going to increase that, and you could end up dissappointed with 'only' 6.4s when in reality you should be well proud.
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hakking
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#24
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(Original post by madprof)
you'll do as well as you are able
Is this suggesting that people are unable to improve our BMAt scores by any other way than familiarisation with questions? Maybe your right. But in a way its fatalism. I would like to be able to feel that I can improve my thinking skills but as you said everybody has a limit on their ability. Or is that so? If I did numerical puzzles and other things to improve my thinking skills and intellect in general or is there ceiling that I would just hit just because I'm me and I cant improve nay further. Of course as humans we are all limited intellectually but its not forseeable that we will ver hit that ceiling but are some people's ceilings higher than others? Or with hard work etc. could I raise my ceiling.

I would like to encourage this debate cause its quite important as to whether I apply to a BMAT uni next year (if idont get into uni this year). Your views please madprof and others.

Edit: Sorry I've kind've changed the subject but its kind of important to debate this issue.
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rhythm_bandit
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#25
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I think with hard work you could raise your ceiling, unless you're one of those rote learners.
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parsleythelion
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#26
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#26
The 'official' take (ie from the highly official BMAT website) is that you can certainly improve your critical thinking skills, and they recommend you do (because it's a good life skill and all that.) That helps you with the questions like 'what is the flaw in the above argument.'

GCSE Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Maths can certainly be revised.

Essay-writing technique can be improved upon, and it helps if you've had your own thoughts and opinions about a variety of topics.

On the first section - I'm not so sure. Probably a lot of work could make a marginal difference, but it is designed to be an 'aptitude' test, so not to reward extra preparation particularly.

My advice would be not to worry unnecessarily about it. I did next to no work for mine beyond flicking through GCSE Physics, and got a good score.
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sea tea
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#27
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nooo....go away, parsleylion, you'll scare all the ickle ones with your crazy high scores...

i'd say buy the bmat book, and maybe do some essay practice...there isn't a lot you can do, i certainly didn't do very much in the way of preparation, and my score was good enough for oxford...
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Madprof
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#28
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#28
Yeah, parsleythelion's score was ridiculously high, I seem to remember! :eek:

Oooh, which college's your offer from Sea Tea?

Hmmm, interesting question. I think your critical thinking can certainly be developed, but in an abstract way - you can't be 'coached' specifically for the BMAT. Critial Thinking A level exists, though those out of my friends who do/have done it aren't that positive about its merits. Personally I don't think sections 1 and 2 are affected by loads and loads of practice abve the level parsley and sea tree did. If you look on this board, scores seem to be relatively independant of preparation.

There is a case for practice improving essay-writing. The art of organised and consise writing certainly takes some practicing (especially if you're someone like me) and I'd get hold of as many suitable style essays (past BMAT papers aren't released) as you can, and get English or Science (or both!) teachers to mark them using the criteria on the BMAT site, or just give you hints. Reading up on current medical issues would be a good idea I suppose, though not necessary. I drew on my personal experience as well in my essay.
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packupthemoon
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#29
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#29
Having looked at the Oxford table, it seems I need to get a score around the 60th percentile of Oxford applicants with my GCSE's...does anybody have any idea what kind of score I'm looking at?
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sea tea
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#30
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#30
check the graph on the bmat website LouisaG, that should tell you which score puts you where percentile-wise.

and madprof, my offer's from st johns. you?
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Madprof
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#31
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^^ But remember that Oxford's percentiles are for applicants to just Oxford - so not the same percentiles as on the BMAT site.

Cool, I seem to remember St John's looked nice and friendly on the open day. Mine's from St Hugh's ("the one just south of Birmingham" apparently).
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hakking
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#32
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#32
Thanks for your help guys.
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parsleythelion
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#33
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(Original post by sea tea)
nooo....go away, parsleylion, you'll scare all the ickle ones with your crazy high scores...

i'd say buy the bmat book, and maybe do some essay practice...there isn't a lot you can do, i certainly didn't do very much in the way of preparation, and my score was good enough for oxford...
:getmecoat


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Thales
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#34
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Also, for Oxford, when they work out your bmat score for the whole gcse vs bmat chart, section two (science) weighs half as much as the other two. As in, when they work out your Oxford-ised bmat score, they'll multiply sections one and three with 0.4, and section two with 0.2, unless I am mistaken.
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Madprof
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#35
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What's your source of information?

Although, by those numbers, the essay score would still be the most important. Total possible mark would be 0.4 x 9 + 0.2 x 9 + 0.4 x 15 = 11.4. Essay would be worth up to 6.0 marks of those: ie 53% of the total. (If you wanted section two to weigh half as much as each of the other two, you'd have to multiply the sections in the ratio 30:15:18, eg section one x 0.3, section 2 x 0.15, section 3 x 0.18.)
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Thales
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#36
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#36
It's on the Oxford Med site. It won't work for me right now, I'll link you asap.

Anyhow, you're quite right on the ratios, though I was just speaking about the ox-factors, not the actual mark ratios. Section one and three 'maintains' their values in respect to each other, and section two is halved, factor speaking, with reference to the normal numbers.
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Thales
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#37
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http://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/med...essingchances/

'The scores on the different BMAT sections were combined by considering each section mark as a percentage of the maximum (allowing for the fact that the scales did not all start with zero), and calculating BMAT performance = 0.4*(% on section 1) + 0.2*(% on section 2) + 0.4*(% on section 3). This decision to give less weight to Section 2 was made on the basis of a review of previous admissions data in advance of the 2004 admissions round, and was maintained in the 2005 admissions round.'
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Madprof
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#38
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Ah right, thanks!

The site seems to have been updated since I applied in October, the admissions report is a lot more informative for this round of applications. Darn, I want to know what the actual marks needed for interview for each % of A*s were!
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Thales
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#39
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#39
That would be interesting indeed. But if you look at the BMAT score tables, assume that Ox applicants might average a wee bit better (or not?), you'll get a general idea.

It'd also be interesting to know how they do for internationals without GCSEs.
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Madprof
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#40
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Yeah, good point. I assume they would do a bit better, but this is just an impression. I do have a fair idea of which marks were needed, but *whines* I want to know exactly :rolleyes: !

(Original post by www.medsci.ox.ac.uk)
If candidates had not taken GCSEs (or exams performance on which could be converted to GCSE equivalents), we gave more weight to the BMAT result.
So presumably IGCSEs are okay, as are some other exams tyaken at the same time; if not these, then BMAT result is the all-important decider. Or they could get in through the 10% of interviewees not meeting the BMAT/GCSE criteria. I wonder how many of these people are international?

Have you/are you applying to Oxford Thales?
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