Immigrant families to wait for at least two years to get on council housing list

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Sounds a good idea - I'm all for complete freedom across borders provided you don't get the same services or benefits as citizens until you've paid in for a while.

Reply 21

effofex

Original post by CRIKEY12

I don't think this policy will prove to be enforcable for the majority of people.
What about migrant families from countries ripped apart by war.
The children are the people who will be affected by this policy. Families are already being detained in Harmonsworth etc.
If seems unfair to the ordinary UK citizen (waiting for housing), but this policy could violate the rights of the child.
many families come to the UK following relatives who are already installed.
If we want to stop migration we should use border control, but I think this is against EU policy

These people are asylum seekers - and thus very different to economic migrants, the latter of whom are predominantly young, male, risk-taking and self-selecting.

Reply 22

CRIKEY12

Original post by effofex

These people are asylum seekers - and thus very different to economic migrants, the latter of whom are predominantly young, male, risk-taking and self-selecting.

You can be assured that the Borders Agency will not make that differentiation. Once we have a Policy such as this it will be applied to all.

Reply 23

Aramiss18

Original post by effofex

Won't really be a major issue since most migrants are not part of 'families'. This is not the 19th century any more. The migrant population is dominated by flexible young men who are quite able to rent in the private sector.

I doubt they would wish to be housed in some rural backwater away from where all the economic action is anyway.

Do you have any data to back up this claim?

Reply 24

anarchism101

Original post by dj1015

But not on our patch of land.

Why is it 'ours'? Why are Glasgow or London 'my' land when I was born in
Leeds, hundreds of miles from either of them?

If we just open our doors to the whole world, this country would fall apart.

That's an argument that it's the lesser evil, not that it isn't discrimination.

And the UK has 'opened its doors to the whole world' for most of its history - the first immigration restrictions came in after WW1.

Reply 25

dj1015

Original post by anarchism101

Why is it 'ours'? Why are Glasgow or London 'my' land when I was born in
Leeds, hundreds of miles from either of them?

That's an argument that it's the lesser evil, not that it isn't discrimination.

And the UK has 'opened its doors to the whole world' for most of its history - the first immigration restrictions came in after WW1.

We live in a country with boarders and laws. You can not let anyone come here and flout them as you seem to advocate.

We only have a finite amount of space and resources, and we don't have enough to give to anyone who comes here.

Reply 26

effofex

Original post by CRIKEY12

You can be assured that the Borders Agency will not make that differentiation. Once we have a Policy such as this it will be applied to all.

I'm fairly sure an application for asylum is very different from an application for visa sponsorship.

Reply 27

anarchism101

Original post by dj1015

We live in a country with boarders and laws. You can not let anyone come here and flout them as you seem to advocate.

Who said anything about breaking laws?

We only have a finite amount of space and resources, and we don't have enough to give to anyone who comes here.

I'll say it again: that's an argument that it's the lesser evil, not that it isn't discrimination.

And included in it is the assumption that we can't kick out British born people who are a waste of resources.

Reply 28

effofex

Original post by Aramiss18

Do you have any data to back up this claim?

Not as yet. But on a global level most migrants are young childless men. Surely it's obvious - they are the most risk-taking and mobile demographic, unlike say, pregnant women. Young, mobile, childless men are hardly a priority when it comes to any council housing shortlist. They are also more likely to be able to minimize their personal expenditures compared to any other demographic (less money spent on medication, no money on childcare etc.) - thus more likely to be able to afford to rent in the private sector.

Furthermore the industries that are truly international (finance, engineering, IT, etc.) tend to be male-dominated.

E.g., it is more than possible to go from being a software developer in India to being a software developer in France than it is to go from being a family lawyer in the UK to a family lawyer in France (in the latter case you would need to switch to full fluency in a different language and have full knowledge of a civil law code rather than a common law code). And as an example the legal profession is far less male-dominated than the three I mentioned before.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 29

effofex

Original post by dj1015

Increasingly it is the market that is the arbiter of this rather than national governments.

Good.

Original post by Aramiss18

Do you have any data to back up this claim?

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/pa014.pdf

http://www.interexchange.org/working-abroad/news/womens-careers-held-back-lack-international-experience

In the latter article, note 'men secure more positions abroad than women by a ratio of four to one'.

Reply 32

Skip_Snip

Original post by anarchism101

It's discrimination against immigrants, i.e. those who by luck were born on a different patch of land. In fact, that's the point of it.

.. so? It won't stop those who can come here to contribute

Original post by Dapperatchik

Fixed.

eww

Reply 33

anarchism101

Original post by Skip_Snip

.. so? It won't stop those who can come here to contribute

If you have to contribute to live here, why can't we kick out all the British-born people who don't contribute?

Reply 34

Dapperatchik

Original post by Skip_Snip

eww

If we restrict their benefit eligibility and have other restrictions such as entry fees that benefit natives, then who loses out from higher immigration?

Reply 35

meenu89

Some say the councils already have the power to enforce this. Why aren't they doing it?

Reply 36

That Bearded Man

Original post by noneofthemknew

Well according to the article itself only 9% of new lettings go to foreign nationals (this document gives 8% for all social housing) when they make up 12% of the UK population, so if we go by this alone than immigrants are actually less likely than British nationals to apply for council housing anyway. So other than placating tabloid hysteria, I don't really see what the point in this proposal actually is.

Also when discussing a shortage of council housing for British people, it's interesting to note that the 308,000 homes occupied by foreign nationals pale in comparison to the 1.2 million sold off to the private sector in the past 10 years.

Thank you for highlighting the ACTUAL problem with council housing - they're all being sold off for a quick buck. Students would benefit immensely as well if public sector regulated alot more letting

Reply 37

username937957

Seems like an OK idea, but it may be better to have the housing list be in the order of something like vulnerable British citizens, vulnerable foreign citizens (like refugees), low-income British citizens, low-income foreign citizens, British citizens, foreign citizens than have families to wait for two years.

Reply 38

Hal.E.Lujah

This is just a publicity stunt really to make up the houses being sold off by tapping into anti immigration feelings. Not got anything to say one way or the other, but just thought it interesting to look at the real motivations behind this.

Reply 39

noneofthemknew

Original post by That Bearded Man

Thank you for highlighting the ACTUAL problem with council housing - they're all being sold off for a quick buck. Students would benefit immensely as well if public sector regulated alot more letting

You're welcome. The chronic shortage of good quality housing, both social and private, in the UK is a big and complex problem to which immigration is but a relatively small contributor.