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    I don’t see the different between a postgraduate course that gives you the knowledge and the qualification to became, whatever you want… and the special course in the army to became an officer. I still think what make you hire is the postgraduate or special training, not the History degree. Also a career in the army is rather special, not every one likes, and its not suitable to every one.


    Kate Adie, started as journalist in the 1970s; George Aliagiah, in the 1980s; and Jeremy Vine, in the 1980s. So your argument that History graduates work as journalist is based on 30 and 20 years old examples. The job market has changed in the last 20 years.
    I can see that your opinion of History degree’s job options is based on the past or in the info from Universities, UCAS and Prospects. You shouldn’t believe everything you read, it could be outdate or inaccurate.

    What I say is what I’ve seen in the last two years, not what is written more than 10 years ago.

    I graduated almost two years ago. Since then I’ve applied to all sort of jobs and only achieved one telephone interview.
    There are many vacancies which says “any degree” but in the selection process, they look at the degree. I’ve applied for everything I was told a History graduate could do; Human Resources, Managerial, Marketing, Archives, Museum conservator, Heritage manager and assistant, Information officer, Records Assistant, city council, Logistics, even in a newspaper as journalist. All these vacancies said “any degree” or didn’t specified the qualification.
    I use to ask for feedback on every application I’m not successful. Many don’t bother to reply, but some do. The usual reply is that there is nothing wrong with my application or my CV. But they rather take a person that got the specific qualification/degree and the specific skills for the job. And I only have transferable skills. And some important skills I don’t have: e.g. managerial skill, marketing skills, business skills, information management skills, numerical skills, etc.
    The newspaper was a small one, I thought the standards were not too high. Nevertheless, they said I would be good writing essays but not short articles and making interviews, and the writing style is different. I agreed with them.
    Nowadays there are new qualifications in Library, information management, Museums, Heritage, logistics, etc. which makes harder for us.

    I am not the only one who realise job market is changing for History graduates. Months ago I got in touch with UCAS, because on their History degree’s info says that History graduates are extremely employable, which is not true. The last five years statistics show that roughly 50% are unemployed. Only 20 to 30% work on graduates jobs. I told them that many of the jobs they say a History graduate could do (e.g. Diplomatic, teaching, law, information technology) require a postgraduate, so it’s the postgraduate which get you into these jobs, not the History degree. UCAS said that will update the info about History degree.

    I got in touch as well with Prospect, for the same reason. I was told the info they use is made by AGCAS. I talked with AGCAS and they will update the info on History degree. Unfortunately they update every two years, so we’ll have to wait.
    Prospects used to have a forum where there were many unhappy History graduates. Quite weird when we started talking about the issue the forum was shut down.

    Latest, What Graduates do (2012), History graduates statistics are far too optimistic, you can see clear errors, so not very credible. It doesn’t say if the people had a previous degree, or even postgraduate. I had two classmate doing History degree, that had already Law degree, one of them even a master. They are both working now in Law firms, so in the statistics probably they will appear as History graduate working in a Law.

    If you look Examples of 2011 History Graduates: Job titles and employers (6 months after graduation). I don’t believe British Library hired a History graduated as archivist. I’ve seen small, provincial archives that only hire postgraduate in archives, nothing less.
    I don’t believe either just with History degree a person would get hired as Mental Health Community Officer, with out any Social Service or health qualification.
    Neither hired as IT Technician just with History degree; Neither a History Lecturer, you need a PhD to lecture at University. These are the most shocking examples that make me think these statistic is nor reliable.

    There is not bashing here, as some of you said. Just to share my experience, its up to you how to use this info, you can believe it, ignore it or make you more aware. No one more than me wish to say that History degree is very valuable, practical and in high demand, but I can not say that.

    I was wondering how many of you got History degree? and how many of you have been looking for job in the last two years?
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    I fear you're placing far too much emphasis on the fact you did a history degree. For most of the jobs you're referring to you do not need a history degree, you can have any degree. It's about the skills you have learnt during your course, how well you did, perhaps even where you studied, and you as a person. Getting a job is about communication skills, written skills, interview skills; there are so many variables that you're overlooking and simply blaming your history degree.
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    (Original post by ajh1990)
    I fear you're placing far too much emphasis on the fact you did a history degree. For most of the jobs you're referring to you do not need a history degree, you can have any degree. It's about the skills you have learnt during your course, how well you did, perhaps even where you studied, and you as a person. Getting a job is about communication skills, written skills, interview skills; there are so many variables that you're overlooking and simply blaming your history degree.
    I askagain, How many of you got History degree? How many of you have been looking for job in the last couple years?

    Only when you do this, you’ll see the real word. Just reading about History degree jobs options, you don’t get a real picture. You can not even trust the statistics. Look at What Graduates do 2012. Examples. Do you believe a History graduate just with a degree, will lecture at University?


    The emphasis you mention you could look in the other way around. Every time you read about History degree you are told lot of jobs you could do.
    You are right, all these jobs, ask for any degree, it doesn’t need to be History degree. However, all these jobs are the one we are told we could do with our History degree. so if you are a History graduate you apply for these jobs.
    You are right again, its not just about the degree, is about the skills (communication, written, interview, etc). The problem is, (as I said before), each job got fundamental skills. We are told we could work in Marketing, management, information management, Human Resources, etc. When a History graduate apply for any of these jobs doesn’t have any of the fundamental skills needed. No marketing skill, no information management sills, not administration skills, not business skills. So when they say “any degree” they will look at the fundamental skills for the position, if you don’t have it you don’t get a job.
    In other words, what job could you do with History degree? (Before some one answer, please look at the fundamental skils needed) because every job got some fundamental skill a History graduate doesn't have. We are trained to be historians, but we have to work in something else that is not historian.


    Yes History graduates still can do things, (I hope) but the job market is changing, is not the same that 10 or 20 years ago. For unknown reason, the info available is outdate or not accurate.
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    First let me say that if you'd actually read my post properly, you would see that I recognise we are saturated with humanities graduates relative to the number of jobs available and that graduate unemployment is a problem. I have never denied this.

    However, this doesn't mean what you've said is quite true, and it's fair to use your experience as a stick to bash history degrees and suggest prospects are as bleak as you state.

    (Original post by irasa87)
    I don’t see the different between a postgraduate course that gives you the knowledge and the qualification to became, whatever you want… and the special course in the army to became an officer.
    It's not a course, it's training.

    The point is that the history graduate needs to do no more "training" than, say, a physics graduate.

    I still think what make you hire is the postgraduate or special training, not the History degree
    No, what is responsible for being hired is the person. Their skills and qualities. This can include their degree (as a degree is required for entry). However, a history degree is no more (or less) likely to get a person a place as any other degree - with a small number of exceptions in technical and scientific roles.

    To do officer training a person needs to have been accepted first. So how can they be hired as a result of training which they have not even done yet?

    in the army is rather special, not every one likes, and its not suitable to every one.
    Never said it is. No career is suitable to every single person.

    My point is that you said graduates are not taken on by the armed forces. This is incorrect. You also said that special courses and degrees are needed to enter the Civil Service. This is incorrect. You then implied an accountancy degree is necessary to become an accountant. This is also incorrect.

    Kate Adie, started as journalist in the 1970s; George Aliagiah, in the 1980s; and Jeremy Vine, in the 1980s. So your argument that History graduates work as journalist is based on 30 and 20 years old examples.
    Firstly they aren't all History graduates. Just not journalism graduates. By point isn't that history graduates are favoured in journalism, it is just countering your point that journalism degrees are necessary.

    Secondly of course they are going to have been in journalism for several years. They are well established professionals. They are senior journalists.

    However, even if you look at young journalists entering the profession now, you'll see most of them don't have journalism degrees.

    A journalism degree is not needed to become a journalist.

    The job market has changed in the last 20 years.
    In some respects, yes, but not in the sense that a journalism degree is needed to become a journalist.

    I can see that your opinion of History degree’s job options is based on the past or in the info from Universities, UCAS and Prospects.
    No, it's not, it comes from personal experience and knowledge gained from a wide variety of sources.

    You shouldn’t believe everything you read, it could be outdate or inaccurate.
    I don't believe everything I read. I look at everything with a critical eye.

    I graduated almost two years ago. Since then I’ve applied to all sort of jobs and only achieved one telephone interview.
    Are you looking for work in the UK or other English speaking countries? If so, then your poor English is probably letting you down. If not, then how do you feel qualified to speak about careers in the UK?

    There are many vacancies which says “any degree” but in the selection process, they look at the degree. I’ve applied for everything I was told a History graduate could do; Human Resources, Managerial, Marketing, Archives, Museum conservator, Heritage manager and assistant, Information officer, Records Assistant, city council, Logistics, even in a newspaper as journalist. All these vacancies said “any degree” or didn’t specified the qualification.
    Well this is probably your problem (besides your English skills). You're applying for everything under the sun (that means everything you see). You need to be far more focused in your applications. An employer will know that you're just applying for things for the sake of applying and finding "some" graduate role.

    Find the one career area that interests you, get relevant experience (work experience, internships) and, providing you have the right qualities and determination, as well as suitable educational background, you have a good chance even with a history degree.

    Also, you need special postgraduate courses for some of those jobs (e.g. archivist). Of course you're going to be rejected if you don't meet the educational requirements.

    To become an archivist you need an accredited Masters degree. To gain entry on to such a degree you need a relevant subject, or sometimes substantial work experience. History is a relevant degree.

    And some important skills I don’t have: e.g. managerial skill, marketing skills, business skills, information management skills, numerical skills, etc.
    And how is that the fault of your history degree? I know people with history degrees who have these skills. This ultimately comes down to you for not developing these skills through internships, work experience placements, previous employment and student societies.

    You're right that employment has changed a lot in recent years, and a degree alone does not have the same weight as it perhaps once did. You need to develop these skills.

    Nowadays there are new qualifications in Library, information management, Museums, Heritage, logistics, etc. which makes harder for us.
    Yes but, again, someone with a history degree has a good foundation on which to pursue postgraduate training in these careers (e.g. Heritage Management, curator, archivist).

    [QUOTE]I am not the only one who realise job market is changing for History graduates. Months ago I got in touch with UCAS, because on their History degree’s info says that History graduates are extremely employable, which is not true. The last five years statistics show that roughly 50% are unemployed. Only 20 to 30% work on graduates jobs. I told them that many of the jobs they say a History graduate could do (e.g. Diplomatic, teaching, law, information technology) require a postgraduate, so it’s the postgraduate which get you into these jobs, not the History degree. UCAS said that will update the info about History degree.

    I got in touch as well with Prospect, for the same reason. I was told the info they use is made by AGCAS. I talked with AGCAS and they will update the info on History degree. Unfortunately they update every two years, so we’ll have to wait.
    Prospects used to have a forum where there were many unhappy History graduates. Quite weird when we started talking about the issue the forum was shut down.

    Latest, What Graduates do (2012), History graduates statistics are far too optimistic, you can see clear errors, so not very credible. It doesn’t say if the people had a previous degree, or even postgraduate. I had two classmate doing History degree, that had already Law degree, one of them even a master. They are both working now in Law firms, so in the statistics probably they will appear as History graduate working in a Law.

    I’ve seen small, provincial archives that only hire postgraduate in archives, nothing less.
    Of course. As mentioned, you need a postgraduate degree to be an archivist. Those with undergraduate degrees only will not be hired.

    I don’t believe either just with History degree a person would get hired as Mental Health Community Officer, with out any Social Service or health qualification.
    It's possible to enter roles such as this with a history degree and appropriate work experience. Some will require additional training and qualifications, yes, but again this is true of all graduates regardless of subject.
    .
    I was wondering how many of you got History degree? and how many of you have been looking for job in the last two years?
    I have a Philosophy and Politics degree, which I have no reason to suspect is more appealing that a History degree. I've had three interviews and one job offer. This isn't bad considering I've only applied to three graduate schemes and five jobs.

    Moreover, I know a few people with history degrees who have graduated in recent years. One or two are struggling to find permanent employment, one got accepted onto the Civil Service fast stream, one onto a charity scheme, two are doing postgraduate study, one is teaching English abroad, one went into accountancy, and three have gone into teaching (one through teach first, the other two through PGCEs).
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    You keep saying I bash History degree. (I don’t think History degree is any worst or impractical than any other Humanity degree). I could say as well, that you are quite inquisitorial, and anything that challenge the traditional belief you disagree. I talk about what I’ve seen and experienced, while you talk based on what you’ve read and told.

    I don’t say its impossible, and never happen. Still there are some lucky one that get hired with history degree. What I’m saying is that; 1) it’s much harder than we are told, 2) no every job we are told we can apply.
    Let me give you just one example. You just mention Archivist. On Prospects, History Jobs Options. Jobs directly related to your degree (History) they say Archivist. You said, (and you are right), that it needs postgraduate to get hired as archivist. That is my point, not all jobs we are told, we can apply. And they don’t update the info about History degree.
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    I get your point, but again you're placing too much importance on your degree. Having a history degree does not entitle you to these jobs, but a history degree can help develop the research skills and evaluative skills that are attractive to employers. It's not about your degree, it's about you! What can you offer, not what can your degree offer.
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    (Original post by irasa87)
    I could say as well, that you are quite inquisitorial, and anything that challenge the traditional belief you disagree.
    Not at all. It's just how I am.

    What are traditional beliefs? Who says I agree with these traditional beliefs?

    I am a philosophy graduate. You might not think so, but I'm very critical of what I'm told. I enjoy debating that's all, and do get irritated by people who say misleading or incorrect things (which, with respect and leaving history to one side, you have in this thread by saying a journalism degree is required for journalism, additional training and qualifications are required for the civil service and so on, and were ignorant of schemes such as Teach First).

    I talk about what I’ve seen and experienced, while you talk based on what you’ve read and told.
    No, I am 28 years old. Probably older than you. What makes you think that I don't have experience? I have even referred to some of it in this thread! I've spent eight years in Higher Education, seen many History graduates come and go. I have experience of employment, both directly and indirectly.

    I don’t say its impossible, and never happen. Still there are some lucky one that get hired with history degree. What I’m saying is that; 1) it’s much harder than we are told
    Well universities are ultimately self-interested and want to sell their courses. However, it is becoming increasingly well known that we are saturated with humanities graduates, and that a degree alone will not get you a job.

    2) no every job we are told we can apply.[/FONT]
    You can apply for these jobs, if you have the right educational experience and skills. That you don't have the correct educational experience or skills is not the fault of your degree.

    You mention Marketing, and I know of History graduates who have entered business and charities working in Marketing and PR. They pick up the marketing skills through internships and experience, often with organisations such as RAG and other related student societies. One option I am considering at the moment, with my PhilPol degree, is PR and, in my experience, the vast majority of those entering have a strong humanities degree (including history) as well as PR and Marketing degrees.

    Let me give you just one example. You just mention Archivist. On Prospects, History Jobs Options. Jobs directly related to your degree (History) they say Archivist. You said, (and you are right), that it needs postgraduate to get hired as archivist. That is my point, not all jobs we are told, we can apply. And they don’t update the info about History degree.
    But it's still directly relevant to History, isn't it? Someone with a History degree has a more appropriate background, and is often more likely to be accepted onto an accredited postgrad course, than someone with a science degree.

    Saying something is directly relevant to History does not mean that a History graduate can job straight into this job after graduation, and it is up to the prospective student to thoroughly research these careers and find out what's involved.

    For many jobs in this country, beyond general graduate schemes, specific degrees are required. Psychology for a psychologist. Occupational Therapy for an Occupational Therapist. Medicine for a Medical Doctor....the difficulty is that many young people haven't discovered their vocation at the age of 18/19, or just wish to study history at a higher level.

    Besides, you can still potentially find work as an archives assistant and do the postgrad degree while in employment.
    Admittedly competition is fierce, and competition is very high, but I don't think it's the responsibility of Universities to provide such information in what is really supposed to be a relatively brief description of the degree.
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    Ah yes I agree that the history degree alone in that respect is of little value. However, an undergraduate History degree coupled with a Postgraduate degree is highly desirable. Of course how your perform in both of the degrees plays a major part, whilst also who you know plays it's part, but on the basis of a history degree alone I will agree with you. I think peoples understanding of what the raw history degree can do for you is more naivety than anything else.
    What a history degree does for many people is delay making the final decision of what they want to do. This can be critical for some people!
    of course a history degree isn't worthless! Having a degree in ANYTHING pits you in better stead than a lot of people in the jobs market who don't have a degree at all. You may not get your dream job without extra study but it's definitely not worthless
 
 
 
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