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Knee Pain After Squatting Watch

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    less weight and better quality of the exercise. if it keeps hurting who should consider seeing a doc
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    Knee pain from squatting can actually be from stopping above parallel, I believe. When you stop your squat above parallel and push back up, your knees take a lot of the force providing the acceleration/deceleration. When you go below parallel, your hams and glutes take a lot of the bashing instead. A more common cause of knee pain from squats is letting the knees cave in, but you say you're certain that's not happening.. even if your knee is not caving inwards, though, you may have other issues - do you let all your weight fall onto your toes at any point during the lift? This can happen very often for people who are struggling with flexibility, as they often feel they might fall backwards without a little compensation like this. But this is not good for knees.

    For HBBS in general, knees tracking over the toes (i.e. further forward than them) should be fine and, for most athletes, it all but necessary for hitting proper depth. Just check out a few oly lifters! I'm not sure how this translates to low-bar squats, but as you're training high-bar I just wouldn't worry about it.

    So two possible solutions here:
    1) stretch like a mofo; you want a deep squat every rep (even if it means taking weight off the bar )
    2) make sure your weight is always on your foot somewhere between your heel and midsole

    In reality, (1) should help a lot with (2). It's probably also worth getting a form check (even if you think yours is 100% perfect!), and seeing a doctor if you have access to one who specialises in sports medicine.
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    (Original post by Implication)
    Knee pain from squatting can actually be from stopping above parallel, I believe. When you stop your squat above parallel and push back up, your knees take a lot of the force providing the acceleration/deceleration. When you go below parallel, your hams and glutes take a lot of the bashing instead. A more common cause of knee pain from squats is letting the knees cave in, but you say you're certain that's not happening.. even if your knee is not caving inwards, though, you may have other issues - do you let all your weight fall onto your toes at any point during the lift? This can happen very often for people who are struggling with flexibility, as they often feel they might fall backwards without a little compensation like this. But this is not good for knees.

    For HBBS in general, knees tracking over the toes (i.e. further forward than them) should be fine and, for most athletes, it all but necessary for hitting proper depth. Just check out a few oly lifters! I'm not sure how this translates to low-bar squats, but as you're training high-bar I just wouldn't worry about it.

    So two possible solutions here:
    1) stretch like a mofo; you want a deep squat every rep (even if it means taking weight off the bar )
    2) make sure your weight is always on your foot somewhere between your heel and midsole

    In reality, (1) should help a lot with (2). It's probably also worth getting a form check (even if you think yours is 100% perfect!), and seeing a doctor if you have access to one who specialises in sports medicine.
    I think the stretching will sort it out. I used to do a couple of stretches before lifting and used to do a routine everyday, and never had a problem with knee pain and going past parallel. It's only now that I've stopped doing any kind of stretching that problems have started to occur.

    I've been doing deadlifts instead of squats for my past couple of workouts. That's 3x5, instead of the usual 1x5 set of deadlifts. It doesn't seem to go to well with the power clean on workout B day, because I couldn't get any power at all whilst doing it. Grip was a problem as well.
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    Mate you have poor form make sure that you knees dont go passes your feet, keep your feet just over shoulder width apart and make sure that you feet are facing forward. Also keep your back straight and squat till your legs are parallel with the ground and hold the squat for one second.


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    (Original post by That_Clever_Guy)
    Mate you have poor form make sure that you knees dont go passes your feet, keep your feet just over shoulder width apart and make sure that you feet are facing forward. Also keep your back straight and squat till your legs are parallel with the ground and hold the squat for one second.


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    Never heard that knees can't go "past feet" and that feet have to be "facing forward". I learned that when you're in "the hole" or past parallel your knees will be past your toes. Also toes should be facing outwards at around a 30 degree angle, not facing straight forward.
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    Never heard that knees can't go "past feet" and that feet have to be "facing forward". I learned that when you're in "the hole" or past parallel your knees will be past your toes. Also toes should be facing outwards at around a 30 degree angle, not facing straight forward.
    Apologies for the accidental neg.

    There is some debate over the foot angle thing. Kelly Starrett of Mobilitywod is insistent that you dump less torque that way. However, most top squatters don't appear to squat that way.

    In general the further you push your hips back in a squat, the less stress there is on the knee. However, you will generally experience more strain on the back due to the change in back angle.
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    (Original post by The Blind Monk)
    Apologies for the accidental neg.

    There is some debate over the foot angle thing. Kelly Starrett of Mobilitywod is insistent that you dump less torque that way. However, most top squatters don't appear to squat that way.

    In general the further you push your hips back in a squat, the less stress there is on the knee. However, you will generally experience more strain on the back due to the change in back angle.
    With HBBS I've found that if I "sit back" like I learned to do with LBBS then the bar drifts forwards past midfoot. Surprising how much torque can be added by the bar being a few inches further up or further down.

    As for foot angle. I dunno. I just go by the Starting Strength book really.
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    I think the stretching will sort it out. I used to do a couple of stretches before lifting and used to do a routine everyday, and never had a problem with knee pain and going past parallel. It's only now that I've stopped doing any kind of stretching that problems have started to occur.
    Sounds like a plan to me then; get stretching!


    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    I've been doing deadlifts instead of squats for my past couple of workouts. That's 3x5, instead of the usual 1x5 set of deadlifts. It doesn't seem to go to well with the power clean on workout B day, because I couldn't get any power at all whilst doing it. Grip was a problem as well.
    Don't quote me on this as I'm not an expert, but I don't think this is a great idea. I'm guessing this means you're deadlifting every workout and, if you follow one of the popular beginner programs, are deadlifting four to seven times as much as is prescribed! Even ignoring how taxing deads are on the CNS, your quads are gonna be missing out. Quad involvement in deadlifts can be increased to some degree by raising the heels, but this probably isn't a good idea given the reason for the extra deadlifts is injury in the first place.

    I can appreciate you're wary of squats because they seem to be your problem, but have you tried playing around with other squat variations, like front squats or hack squats?

    --

    Not allowing knees to track past toes is, as someone above said, debatable. I don't personally give it much credibility for a few reasons: a) the only place I ever hear it is third or fourth-hand on forums or from some dude who heard it from a PT at their gym or a youtube video, b) these cases are almost invariably in the context of low bar squats, where the depth is much less, c) there are a plethora of athletes who regularly squat with their knees past their toes (just watch any o-lifters..), d) people's body proportions vary massively. Even if it is true for some people, that doesn't necessarily extend to others

    As far as I'm aware, feet being straight forward is not that important. If you can hit proper depth with good form with your feet straight, then that's great. But most people can't, and what happens is that their legs twist, and this is not great at all. There is no problem with squatting with feet pointed out as long as the knees/thighs are still in-line with the toes! For a lot of people, I think anatomy (and not necessarily just inflexibility) can physically prevent execution of a good, deep squat without the feet pointed out.

    I think the squat is usually taught with feet pointed out, but whatever you do make sure your knees/thighs are in-line with your toes. I personally don't know anyone who squats more than 3/4 ROM with feet straight forward.

    EDIT: Found an interesting article on the topic by Greg Everett
    http://www.catalystathletics.com/art...?articleID=113
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    Learn how to squat.
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    (Original post by Foghorn Leghorn)
    Learn how to squat.
    Good one, lmao.
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    Good one, lmao.
    Glad I made you laugh, but the vast majority of times problems and injuries that arise from squatting are due to poor form, hence learning better form will help your knee troubles.
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    Never heard that knees can't go "past feet" and that feet have to be "facing forward". I learned that when you're in "the hole" or past parallel your knees will be past your toes. Also toes should be facing outwards at around a 30 degree angle, not facing straight forward.

    (Original post by The Blind Monk)
    Apologies for the accidental neg.

    There is some debate over the foot angle thing. Kelly Starrett of Mobilitywod is insistent that you dump less torque that way. However, most top squatters don't appear to squat that way.

    In general the further you push your hips back in a squat, the less stress there is on the knee. However, you will generally experience more strain on the back due to the change in back angle.

    Erm no there is no correct foot angle. Foot angle is purely down to the dimensions of whoever is lifting. Your foot angle should be what feels natural to you providing they aren't at an angle that compromises your base stability then it doesn't matter. The same goes for the bar position, the bar should be in a position that feels most stable to you, wherether power squatting or oly squatting.
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    (Original post by Foghorn Leghorn)
    Glad I made you laugh, but the vast majority of times problems and injuries that arise from squatting are due to poor form, hence learning better form will help your knee troubles.
    "Poor form" is a pretty bad diagnosis in itself, especially when it's given on the strength of assumption alone. Did you even read the OP?
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    "Poor form" is a pretty bad diagnosis in itself, especially when it's given on the strength of assumption alone. Did you even read the OP?
    I did, and you don't exactly give much detail anyway, but from what I can make out from what you've said, squatting is giving you knee trouble, and unless you have an underlying knee injruy (which you shouldn't be squatting until this has healed) then it's probably due to poor form. And if it's a mobility problem then it's still a problem with form i.e. your mobility is preventing you from having good form or more appropriately you are not squatting in a position that works with your level of mobility. I'm not having a go I'm just stating that this is probably the cause of your knee troubles. It's a problem pretty much every squatter goes through hence I can almost guarantee your knee troubles would be corrected with better form.
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    (Original post by Foghorn Leghorn)
    I did, and you don't exactly give much detail anyway, but from what I can make out from what you've said, squatting is giving you knee trouble, and unless you have an underlying knee injruy (which you shouldn't be squatting until this has healed) then it's probably due to poor form. And if it's a mobility problem then it's still a problem with form i.e. your mobility is preventing you from having good form or more appropriately you are not squatting in a position that works with your level of mobility. I'm not having a go I'm just stating that this is probably the cause of your knee troubles. It's a problem pretty much every squatter goes through hence I can almost guarantee your knee troubles would be corrected with better form.
    Wow. :facepalm2:
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    Wow. :facepalm2:
    Wow?

    Are you saying I'm wrong? If so then please state what is wrong with what I have said.

    Having looked through the thread I see someone posted this:


    (Original post by lalaland)
    When you squat, your knees must be behind your toes! The reason why you're getting pains might be because you're putting all your body weight on your knees rather than your ankles/bottom of your leg. A tip I always use is I pretend I'm pushing an object AWAY from my hips. This helps to keep your back straight and your weight on your ankles.


    And you replied with:

    (Original post by Dark Horse)

    I'm guessing something is too tight then and pulls my knees back behind my toes. I know for a fact that they aren't tracking inwards so it must be what you said.

    Now in your op you said you high bar squat (I'm assuming you mean oly squat) but you seem to be agreeing with lalaland. When it comes to oly squat lalaland is wrong, your knees don't have to be behind your toes. If you are power squatting then yes your shins will be more verticle and hence your knees will most likely be behind your toes but I have never seen anyone atg without their knees tracking infront of their toes. The weight should be on balanced in the middle of the foot not the heels or toes, and it should stay their throughout the whole movement i.e no rocking.

    Look at this example:



    At this position she looks to be in good form, chest puffed out, back pinched and tight, ass isn't dipping under her, bar inline with her ankles, yet her knees are clearly infront of her toes.

    So you are quite willing to take advice from lalaland, but when I give you advice you dissmiss it with contempt. Look I don't know if it's an ego thing or you just don't like me, eitherway what I'm saying is probably correct. You are have knee problems because you have bad form. I know you probably don't want to hear it but sorry to burst that bubble it most likely is true. Now you can either take heed what I have said, eat a bit of humble pie and start working on your form, or you can completely ignore me and continue squatting the way you do and tear your knees to sherds. TBH they're not my knees so I'm not bothered.
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    (Original post by Foghorn Leghorn)
    Wow?

    Are you saying I'm wrong? If so then please state what is wrong with what I have said.

    Having looked through the thread I see someone posted this:






    And you replied with:




    Now in your op you said you high bar squat (I'm assuming you mean oly squat) but you seem to be agreeing with lalaland. When it comes to oly squat lalaland is wrong, your knees don't have to be behind your toes. If you are power squatting then yes your shins will be more verticle and hence your knees will most likely be behind your toes but I have never seen anyone atg without their knees tracking infront of their toes. The weight should be on balanced in the middle of the foot not the heels or toes, and it should stay their throughout the whole movement i.e no rocking.

    Look at this example:



    At this position she looks to be in good form, chest puffed out, back pinched and tight, ass isn't dipping under her, bar inline with her ankles, yet her knees are clearly infront of her toes.

    So you are quite willing to take advice from lalaland, but when I give you advice you dissmiss it with contempt. Look I don't know if it's an ego thing or you just don't like me, eitherway what I'm saying is probably correct. You are have knee problems because you have bad form. I know you probably don't want to hear it but sorry to burst that bubble it most likely is true. Now you can either take heed what I have said, eat a bit of humble pie and start working on your form, or you can completely ignore me and continue squatting the way you do and tear your knees to sherds. TBH they're not my knees so I'm not bothered.

    Just wow. :facepalm2:
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    I would go see your doctor and (s)he might recommend some physio. I have bad knees as well and that's due to the cartilage getting thin. Strengthening your leg muscles in ways that don't hurt your knees and a bit of physio should help, although I'm no doctor so it could well be something entirely different. Definitely worth a visit to your GP though - knees are important!
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    Just wow. :facepalm2:
    So nothing to say then, exactly my point.
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    I would appreciate it if you two just left it alone. It is quite clear nothing positive will be achieved from the two of you arguing with each other.
 
 
 
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