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Iain Duncan Smith losing his bottle over cutting benefits Watch

  • View Poll Results: Should Iain Duncan Smith give up cutting benefits?
    No- we need more cuts
    26
    56.52%
    Yes- benefits should not be cut anymore
    20
    43.48%

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    (Original post by billydisco)
    So if you were to walk around with a bucket and sponge and offer to clean people's cars, that would "cost money to set up a business"? Please....
    It's really not that simple though is it?

    a) How many people are going to take up the offer?

    b) How much money will actually be earnt?

    c) Is this money worth the effort of trudging through the freezing cold, knocking on door after door all day?

    d) Is this money going to be able to pay rent/food bills/utility bills etc?

    Also, I reject the false dichotomy presented by the poll, benefits should be cut in the right places.
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    Farage has the right idea. He's not perfect, but if Labour get in they will run this country into the ground if the Tories haven't already managed it. I don't believe Ed Miliband is capable of running a government.
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    (Original post by noneofthemknew)
    It's really not that simple though is it?

    a) How many people are going to take up the offer?

    b) How much money will actually be earnt?

    c) Is this money worth the effort of trudging through the freezing cold, knocking on door after door all day?

    d) Is this money going to be able to pay rent/food bills/utility bills etc?

    Also, I reject the false dichotomy presented by the poll, benefits should be cut in the right places.
    Exactly. I don't know about anyone else; but I'd rather go to someone who I've been to before and I know what they're like. And some people are going to be pretty pissed off if you just knock on their door.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    I don't think anyone's better. They're all just as bad as each other imo.
    IDS just hates disabled people. If you are disabled and your child leaves college you lose severe disability allowance so you can't pay for care therefore your child is forced to become your carer. They might receive Carers sllowance of £58 a week as long as they are caring more than. 30 hours a week. Then thst is taxable. The disabled person then has extra community charge to pay. If there is a box room smaller than 70sq feet which until now was classed as too small to be a bedroom they now pay bedroom tax and because the house is set up for them they can't afford to leave. . If their child decides to go to uni and reaches the age of 21 either before or whilst there. They have to pay HCC housing cost sontribution, which is on top of their normal student bills. The parent who has now lost their carer can not apply for severe disability allowance so may not be able to pay for the care they need.
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    (Original post by Abused a)
    IDS just hates disabled people. If you are disabled and your child leaves college you lose severe disability allowance so you can't pay for care therefore your child is forced to become your carer.
    You can get direct payments to pay for your care.

    They might receive Carers sllowance of £58 a week as long as they are caring more than. 30 hours a week. Then thst is taxable.
    It won't be taxed because they won't earn enough to be taxed.

    If their child decides to go to uni and reaches the age of 21 either before or whilst there. They have to pay HCC housing cost sontribution, which is on top of their normal student bills.
    I think this is fair enough. They have a room elsewhere; so why should tax payers have to pay for a room for them?
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    (Original post by paddlesnap)
    Get this bloke out, he's got no clue. Someone who has the gall to take the money from the scroungers (specifically those who don't work because they don't want to and not because they can't find jobs) should have his job. This is the same bloke who was offering his corporate chums free labour at the hands of benefit claimants, don't forget.

    Roll on UKIP 2015, that's what I say.
    Well said mate!
    I could do with a rational voice like yours on my threads lol!
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    (Original post by tc92)
    It's just another fallacy of this government though. People moan about them cutting 'too far and too fast' and protest about every reform they try to make. Yet spending has gone UP under this govt, borrowing is up, the welfare bill is up.

    Maybe if they actually did make cuts in public spending they'd have a little more credibility, instead of making what must now be about the 100th u-turn in three years.

    Cannot wait for 2015.
    Well said- people need to know we aren't seeing any real-term cuts

    Spending even increased under Maggie!
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    IDS: 1. Tell Telegraph that he can't cut welfare 2. wait for outrage from Right wing press 3. cite said 'public outcry' to justify further cuts.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    IDS (and Cameron) have no idea what they're doing. As far as IDS is concerned, we're all scroungers. Where are these flipping jobs then? And why would someone give up their £30k a year job to live on £100 a week?

    Contrary to what the media wants people to believe, those of us on benefits don't live this life of luxury.
    But someone earning only £6000 or less on minimum wage after NI payments
    Don't forget that people might also lose a proportion of housing benefit too-which is especially valuable if you live in say London where housing costs are high!
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    (Original post by a729)
    But someone earning only £6000 or less on minimum wage after NI payments
    Don't forget that people might also lose a proportion of housing benefit too-which us especially valuable uf you live in say London where housing costs are high!
    Blame the landlords who set high rent then.
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    (Original post by noneofthemknew)
    c) Is this money worth the effort of trudging through the freezing cold, knocking on door after door all day?
    Well lets remove their benefit money and then see how "worth it" it is?
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    (Original post by Abused a)
    They might receive Carers sllowance of £58 a week as long as they are caring more than. 30 hours a week. Then thst is taxable.
    Many carers CAN'T claim carers allowance - despite caring for someone for more than 35 hours a week (not 30) - if you study for 21 hours a week or earn over £100 a week then you aren't eligible for a penny (not even the £1.67ph payment that carers allowance represents).

    Personally I can't afford to give up work - but that means I'm working 40hrs a week for "free" on top of my 30hrs a week of paid work.

    My partner would be much better off if we split up, I suppose that this is what the tories mean by "big society" :rolleyes: it's a shame that they're actually creating an incentive for family breakdown or for "hard working families" like ours to end up falling apart due to the stress and ending up throwing the "burden" back onto the local social services and the NHS - both of which are also currently being cut to the bone.

    The entire system right now includes MASSIVE false economies - it's all about moving the bottom line onto another department's budget and not about reducing costs overall.

    The move from DLA to PIP wont result in a single penny less on the benefits bill (based on DWP calculations).

    It will result in 20% fewer people getting the financial support they need to stay in work or keep their independence.

    That 20% of the money will go entirely into the pockets of private companies.

    All of this to "reform" a benefit that even the DWP says has a fraud rate of 0.5% (the lowest of any benefits) and will mean that applicants, instead of having to convince their GP, social worker or consultant of their problems they just have to convince a "healthcare worker" in a 20 minute assessment. I hate to point out the obvious to any fans of the welfare reform act but putting on difficulty for 20 minutes is a LOT easier for "fakers" to get away with than the current system.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    You think UKIP will be any better? :eek:
    Better than the Labour party, Communist party or any lefties!
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Well lets remove their benefit money and then see how "worth it" it is?
    Ha, I love how you focused on this and failed to address my other points.

    If you remove people's benefits they aren't gonna be washing your cars, they're gonna be breaking into them.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    Blame the landlords who set high rent then.
    It's not landlord's fault that there isn't enough property in London to meet the rising demand!

    Though I don't oppose measures to lower housing costs
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    (Original post by noneofthemknew)
    If you remove people's benefits they aren't gonna be washing your cars, they're gonna be stealing them.
    Exactly - the backup if you have no income will still fall to the state one way or another

    sending people to prison costs more than income support
    putting children in care costs more than income support
    hospitalising someone or putting them in a care home costs more than ESA/income support.

    Slash and burn social security and you just put people into a crisis situation which will STILL result in the state footing the bill, just a different dept and a higher cost.

    The cuts at the moment are cynical idealistic opportunism that will not save any money short or long term but will put a lot of tax payers money in the pockets of certain private companies.
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    (Original post by noneofthemknew)

    If you remove people's benefits they aren't gonna be washing your cars, they're gonna be breaking into them.
    Fortunately most people have the moral backbone to not break the law

    Arguably charity could fill the gap more effectively than government ever could
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    (Original post by PQ)
    The move from DLA to PIP wont result in a single penny less on the benefits bill (based on DWP calculations).

    It will result in 20% fewer people getting the financial support they need to stay in work or keep their independence.

    That 20% of the money will go entirely into the pockets of private companies.
    I won't be surprised if the cost of going to PIP costs much more - in terms of appeals, etc.

    And some may have to give up work too - because the loss of DLA / PIP will mean they lose their car; so can't get to work or pay for other stuff that allows them to work.
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    (Original post by a729)
    Better than the Labour party, Communist party or any lefties!
    In what way?
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Exactly - the backup if you have no income will still fall to the state one way or another

    sending people to prison costs more than income support
    putting children in care costs more than income support
    hospitalising someone or putting them in a care home costs more than ESA/income support.

    Slash and burn social security and you just put people into a crisis situation which will STILL result in the state footing the bill, just a different dept and a higher cost.

    The cuts at the moment are cynical idealistic opportunism that will not save any money short or long term but will put a lot of tax payers money in the pockets of certain private companies.
    Yeah, it's a shame these "destroy the welfare state" ideologues don't seem to think through the repercussions of their proposals.

    The welfare state, like many state infrastructures, serves the function of not just protecting those who fall on hard times, but of protecting capitalism from itself. State benefits prevent the poorest from turning to socially destructive measures in order to keep themselves.

    (Original post by a729)
    Fortunately most people have the moral backbone to not break the law

    Arguably charity could fill the gap more effectively than government ever could
    Social unrest is very strongly correlated with income inequality though, which welfare cuts exacerbate.

    And in theory, yes it may be able to, but not without massive cultural and infrastructural change which isn't going to happen within one electoral cycle.
 
 
 
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