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Boyfriend with a drug problem Watch

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    (Original post by ExWunderkind)
    Oh wake up. If you really believe the wares that are peddled out on the street are really pure cocaine, then you're more ignorant than your comments are portraying you. It's the stuff it's mixed with, to extend it, that you should be concerned about.

    And advocating people should try these things just once is absolutely incredibly, without shadow of a doubt: idiotic.
    What are you reading? This is scare mongering. It makes no sense for a drug dealer to actively poison his customers. It won't be pure, but it'll be mixed with baking powder, the risk is that you'll be ripped off.

    Cocaine is dangerous because it's highly addictive, expensive and makes a lot of people act like complete ****ers.
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    As someone said, MDMA isn't exactly a hardcore drug, it's not like he's shooting heroin or smoking crack.

    It all depends on his pattern of use really. For example i use MD and charlie, but i am aware of the risks and i would say on average i would use both about 5 times a year.

    If he's going to raves every now and then and doing a bit of md and/or sniff (although you shouldn't really mix those drugs) then i wouldn't worry. If he's taking md every weekend or more often then he seriously needs educating on how MDMA depletes serotonin and why that's a very bad thing.

    And whoever said drugs are cut with rat poison - While i won't deny this has happened in the past, it is VERY unlikely. It's simply bad business, if you kill off your customers you're not going to make much money.

    (Original post by Steevee)
    So can cake.

    Of course I don't believe that, but I doubt her BF is throwing grams of £30 rubbish up his nose, hence I said if her BF does it then she's probably safe enough.

    And why is it idiotic to advocate people try such things? Because you have been taken in by the 'drugs are bad m'kay' mentality?

    You don't know much? Bow to people with superior knowledge then. MDMA is virtually harmless, taken in moderation there is no danger inherent from it. The only 2 deaths ever linked to the substance that were not OD's were due to the people having given themselves water poisoning.

    You are in no position to make a sweeping statement 'people can;t control themselves' and then tell them they should not and cannot do things.
    I personally would not say MDMA is "virtually harmless". MDMA can be rather harmful if used too much. It's fairer to say "MDMA is relatively safe", just my opinion of course.

    And sorry to poke holes, but your statement that there has only ever been two deaths linked to MDMA, and that they were hyponatremia (water poisoning) is not correct.

    People do die from MDMA, and there have been a lot more deaths than two. It's true that the majority of "deaths caused by MDMA" were not caused my the actual MDMA, but were in fact due to drinking too much water or not drinking enough water, and over exertion.

    This being said however, people do still die from overdoses. A couple of people have died in recent years at a popular underground club near me. I heard (could be rumour) that one of the guys (he was 17) took a gram in one go for his first ever time (LD50 of MD is 10 - 20 mg per kg oral, so about 1.2 grams for the average person).

    It is possible to overdose, and people have died from it, but if you're sensible and not bashing out grams it's unlikely.

    It is also possible to simply take a normal dose of MDMA, and you're body can react badly and you can die from serotonin syndrome - Highly unlikely, but a risk people should be aware of.

    Also, another way people have died is taking MDMA while also on certain types of antidepressants (SSRI's and MAOH's i think), very dangerous to do, likely to result in serotonin syndrome again.

    And then of course you have to consider the neurotoxicity of MDMA. Now we known MDMA uses up serotonin, the debate in the scientific community (or at least it was when i did my research many years back) is whether the body can can fully replace the used up serotonin and whether MD has neurotoxic affects on the brain.

    Some studies show severe cognitive and memory problems from chronic MDMA use, others show that is is fully reversible.

    And a bit of contrast - Every weekend millions of people take MDMA, very few of them experiences severe negative affects. Every weekend more people die from alcohol poisoning.

    Either way, no drug is completely safe, and people should fully research a chemical before they decide to put it into their body.
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    (Original post by Spetznaaz)
    As someone said, MDMA isn't exactly a hardcore drug, it's not like he's shooting heroin or smoking crack.

    It all depends on his pattern of use really. For example i use MD and charlie, but i am aware of the risks and i would say on average i would use both about 5 times a year.

    If he's going to raves every now and then and doing a bit of md and/or sniff (although you shouldn't really mix those drugs) then i wouldn't worry. If he's taking md every weekend or more often then he seriously needs educating on how MDMA depletes serotonin and why that's a very bad thing.

    And whoever said drugs are cut with rat poison - While i won't deny this has happened in the past, it is VERY unlikely. It's simply bad business, if you kill off your customers you're not going to make much money.



    I personally would not say MDMA is "virtually harmless". MDMA can be rather harmful if used too much. It's fairer to say "MDMA is relatively safe", just my opinion of course.

    And sorry to poke holes, but your statement that there has only ever been two deaths linked to MDMA, and that they were hyponatremia (water poisoning) is not correct.

    People do die from MDMA, and there have been a lot more deaths than two. It's true that the majority of "deaths caused by MDMA" were not caused my the actual MDMA, but were in fact due to drinking too much water or not drinking enough water, and over exertion.

    This being said however, people do still die from overdoses. A couple of people have died in recent years at a popular underground club near me. I heard (could be rumour) that one of the guys (he was 17) took a gram in one go for his first ever time (LD50 of MD is 10 - 20 mg per kg oral, so about 1.2 grams for the average person).

    It is possible to overdose, and people have died from it, but if you're sensible and not bashing out grams it's unlikely.

    It is also possible to simply take a normal dose of MDMA, and you're body can react badly and you can die from serotonin syndrome - Highly unlikely, but a risk people should be aware of.

    Also, another way people have died is taking MDMA while also on certain types of antidepressants (SSRI's and MAOH's i think), very dangerous to do, likely to result in serotonin syndrome again.

    And then of course you have to consider the neurotoxicity of MDMA. Now we known MDMA uses up serotonin, the debate in the scientific community (or at least it was when i did my research many years back) is whether the body can can fully replace the used up serotonin and whether MD has neurotoxic affects on the brain.

    Some studies show severe cognitive and memory problems from chronic MDMA use, others show that is is fully reversible.

    And a bit of contrast - Every weekend millions of people take MDMA, very few of them experiences severe negative affects. Every weekend more people die from alcohol poisoning.

    Either way, no drug is completely safe, and people should fully research a chemical before they decide to put it into their body.
    Well, two deaths widely linked in the media. As you say, all other such deaths beyond allergic reaction are not as a result of the MDMA, but things people have done whilst on it, which is a different kettle of fish, especially as it's not the MDMA that causes that behaviour specifically. You are still in control of your faculties beyond a little unwanted eye and mouth movement.

    And as yet, no study has conclusivley linked any long term affects to MDMA so far as I'm aware.

    So in short, it's a drug, it carries the same risks as other drugs insofar as you can be allergic to it, it can react badly with other drugs and so on. But that is no different from Paracetomal, which is why I say virtually harmless. I have a relative scale rather than an absoloute one, so perhaps I should have said realativly harmless
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Well, two deaths widely linked in the media. As you say, all other such deaths beyond allergic reaction are not as a result of the MDMA, but things people have done whilst on it, which is a different kettle of fish, especially as it's not the MDMA that causes that behaviour specifically. You are still in control of your faculties beyond a little unwanted eye and mouth movement.

    And as yet, no study has conclusivley linked any long term affects to MDMA so far as I'm aware.

    So in short, it's a drug, it carries the same risks as other drugs insofar as you can be allergic to it, it can react badly with other drugs and so on. But that is no different from Paracetomal, which is why I say virtually harmless. I have a relative scale rather than an absoloute one, so perhaps I should have said realativly harmless
    Yeah that's the thing with the media - I'm guessing one of the deaths you're referring to is Leah Betts.

    It pisses me off to no end, that story.

    For those who don't know, Leah Betts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leah_Betts) was a girl who took MDMA, died, and there was a huge media campaign against MDMA led by her parents and funded by vested interests (alcohol and energy drink companies i think). I think they came to my school many years ago to give a presentation on how drugs are bad mmmkay.

    She wasn't feeling too well, so her friends kept making her drink water, she died from hyponatremia i believe.

    If in school, instead of telling kids that drugs are bad, if they had of been educated how to use MDMA safely, she would most likely be alive today.

    One of the first things i learned before ever taking MDMA was that you can dehydrate, and you can also drink too much. Too much water = sodium levels in the body going to low = very painful death.

    In my unprofessional opinion i would estimate that 90% of MDMA deaths could be avoided simply by education and regulated product.

    Yeah i know what you mean about paracetamol, but i would say MDMA is certainly more harmful the para.

    I say relative, as obviously even caffeine is not safe, but it is relative to what the everyday person considers safe. MDMA is relatively safe (IMO), because most people drink alcohol and consider it safe, and when you compare most illegal drugs to alcohol, they are either just as dangerous, or less dangerous.

    What we need is more education on drugs, hence why i write such long posts lol
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    (Original post by Spetznaaz)
    ...What we need is more education on drugs...
    Agreed.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hi, I'm 17 years old. A lot of my friends use recreational drugs because, in my area, its relatively normal. I don't, and never have, used any drugs because I simply don't see the incentive, although I am obviously often around people who do.

    I've been with a boy for around five months. We get on really well and I love to spend time with him; I'm pretty crazy about him. I never thought the drugs thing would be an issue, but I think it very much is. He is always out partying and at raves doing hardcore drugs (mostly MDMA, occasionally cocaine) and I go with and stand awkwardly sober in the corner. He tells me its okay and he appreciates my choice of not doing drugs, but he still won't stop. I'm beginning to think he has an addiction, but he laughs when I tell him this - and given that its so common for our social circles, I'm not surprised he thinks he's okay.

    I like him very much and dont want to hurt him, but his lifestyle is bringing me down. I spend long Sundays with him nursing his hangover and listening to his drug related problems and I can't do it anymore. My work is beginning to suffer and I can't spend my life taking care of a problem that I myself dont even have.

    Should i try to help him or leave him?
    Dump him, unless you want to be getting clean needles for him from boots.
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    Dump him, unless you want to be getting clean needles for him from boots.
    I doubt he's going to go from MD/Charlie to mainlining. Kind of a different ball park.
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    (Original post by Spetznaaz)
    I doubt he's going to go from MD/Charlie to mainlining. Kind of a different ball park.
    True, I agree with that, but everyone starts somewhere....usually with draw and it develops upwards.....once you develop a high from one drug its easy to say you've tried it and to move on after a while....People our age love to experiment with new things without knowing the long term consequences.
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    (Original post by ExWunderkind)
    I'm reading research papers on the impurities of cocaine seized by police and government authorities. You think baking powder is all they use?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8040690.stm - I won't be able to link you to the actual papers I've read, but I will present the above link.

    You think the people that peddle this substance consider the people that purchase it 'customers'? You think they have an aftercare policy?

    They will add anything they can get, that will pass as cocaine and use it to extend the quantity of cocaine they sell.
    I didn't see rat poison on that list! These are cutting agents, they are less dangerous than the coke itself usually. Unless you're a millionaire you're going to likely get chopped up drugs.

    I think that, assuming they only care about making money, poisoning their consumers would be pretty damn stupid. I'm not saying they do this out of altruism.
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    I'm not going to debate on whether recreational drug use is wrong or right but I think it's time you broke up with him. You're incompatible and you have different ideas of fun. Considering you're only 17, I doubt he's going to change his ways and "settle down" any time soon. It's nice that you appreciate each others differences but it doesn't really seem like your relationship is going anywhere.
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    True, I agree with that, but everyone starts somewhere....usually with draw and it develops upwards.....once you develop a high from one drug its easy to say you've tried it and to move on after a while....People our age love to experiment with new things without knowing the long term consequences.
    In my experience most people who've tried drugs have made an effort to educate themselves and draw up boundaries. Even among groups that do drugs quite a lot I've found people warning each other to never go near things like heroin/coke, which to me really shows how much of a positive influence proper drug education has on people who might otherwise go astray for not fully appreciating the risks. There is always that minority that normalises the idea and starts slipping deeper and deeper though, and I really hope that doesn't happen to any of the drug users I know because most of them are actually great guys.
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    (Original post by Santorum)
    You're "evidence" is just as anecdotal as the person you're responding to, I'd be interested to hear the drug abuse stories of those who have taking MDMA for instance but I feel from having reading your comment you have a hard time differentiating between drugs and just assume they're all bad because FRANK says they are...
    I haven't even mentioned MDMA because my knowledge on this is virtually non-existent. If you'd read my comments I am specifically talking about cocaine, and why I am against people advocating "just try it."

    My evidence might appear anecdotal here, but I have done more than enough first hand research on this topic and have contributed to papers written on this in scientific, peer reviewed journals and have been part of a panel that informed a government committee on a particular related topic.

    You are making massively large assumptions about me, and ignoring what I am actually saying in the process.
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    True, I agree with that, but everyone starts somewhere....usually with draw and it develops upwards.....once you develop a high from one drug its easy to say you've tried it and to move on after a while....People our age love to experiment with new things without knowing the long term consequences.
    The slippery slope argument is fallacious. There is very little research that corroborates this.
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    I didn't see rat poison on that list! These are cutting agents, they are less dangerous than the coke itself usually. Unless you're a millionaire you're going to likely get chopped up drugs.

    I think that, assuming they only care about making money, poisoning their consumers would be pretty damn stupid. I'm not saying they do this out of altruism.
    I never said rat poison was ever used as an adulterant; but I'm not saying it has never been used either. Unfortunately, the media scaremongers with that substance.

    There aren't many chemicals on that list that I would willingly imbibe, and neither would you.

    If we're educating ourselves on the pure substance, we need to educate ourselves on the adulterants.
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    (Original post by ExWunderkind)
    The slippery slope argument is fallacious. There is very little research that corroborates this.
    If you get a dose of something and someone tells you there is something out there better than that....there is a certain percentage of people that would consider taking it to the next level.... its the same with gambling.... or any form of addiction. You don't tend to get someone starting on a hard drug do you? In a lot of clubs/pubs you can't just get hold of heroin, whilst like a bit of charlie and draw its readily accessible.
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    (Original post by ExWunderkind)
    I haven't even mentioned MDMA because my knowledge on this is virtually non-existent. If you'd read my comments I am specifically talking about cocaine, and why I am against people advocating "just try it."

    My evidence might appear anecdotal here, but I have done more than enough first hand research on this topic and have contributed to papers written on this in scientific, peer reviewed journals and have been part of a panel that informed a government committee on a particular related topic.

    You are making massively large assumptions about me, and ignoring what I am actually saying in the process.

    This was the last part of your comment I read; "And advocating people should try these things just once is absolutely incredibly, without shadow of a doubt: idiotic." Then you went on to talk about drug abuse, I wasn't aware from this that you were specifically talking about cocaine as you didn't make it clear. My only assumption was that you aren't able to differentiate between the effects of different drugs in this case MDMA and coke and I by your own admission you "knowledge on this is virtually non-existent" so my assumption was correct.
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    (Original post by Santorum)
    This was the last part of your comment I read; "And advocating people should try these things just once is absolutely incredibly, without shadow of a doubt: idiotic." Then you went on to talk about drug abuse, I wasn't aware from this that you were specifically talking about cocaine as you didn't make it clear. My only assumption was that you aren't able to differentiate between the effects of different drugs in this case MDMA and coke and I by your own admission you "knowledge on this is virtually non-existent" so my assumption was correct.
    I stand by that comment, telling anyone to try and take a substance they have no information about is ruthless. As I've said to that poster, he later advocated the importance of self-education on the substance before you take it, and I can't argue against that. If you know the dangers, are aware of prevention of side effects then I am certainly not somebody to say "No, you shouldn't." We all take risks, and do things detrimental to our health, yet I have and always be pro-choice.
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    True, I agree with that, but everyone starts somewhere....usually with draw and it develops upwards.....once you develop a high from one drug its easy to say you've tried it and to move on after a while....People our age love to experiment with new things without knowing the long term consequences.
    My knowledge on the hard drugs is limited. I've obviously met the odd junkie, and i ****in' hate junkies, who doesn't. But i've never asked one how they started, so honestly i'm not 100% sure on this one.

    I do know the gateway theory is absolute rubbish and has been disproven however.

    I'm sure there is data out there, and i vaguely remember reading that most heroin users did not actually start on cannabis (or md), but i'm too lazy to look atm.

    All i know is, no one i have ever known has ever gone onto anything harder or has any desire to, and i know i never would. Among the majority of casual drug users, it's kinda widely accepted that crack and skag are off limits, well in my social circles anyway - We've all seen enough junkies to know we aint taking any chances ending up like that.

    I don't think the whole "seeking a better high" thing is true for most people. I don't know if you take drugs, but it's hard for me to explain apart from saying, it just doesn't work like that.

    Of course you do have people who just want to get higher and higher, but not your typical stable person.

    At the end of the day, in my opinion of course, the majority of drug users are casual drug users, who will take things from cannabis, up to MD/coke/psychedelics, but will never progress further and their drug use does not negatively impact their lives.

    Drugs (including alcohol) CAN and DO destroy lives and familys however, and it's the ones you underestimate that will come back and bite you on the arse, hard.



    To keep this all relevant, OP - the main thing to take from this, is that first you must educate yourself. You need to be in the position that you can make an informed decision on your partners drug habits, not one based on misinformation though. If he is hitting it all too hard, you need to sit him down, make sure he is educated as well, express your concerns, maybe see if there's anything you can do to help him clean up a bit, and give him a chance, and if you really can't handle it, break it off. Of course if his drug habits are simply moderate young adult fun, and he's not doing any serious damage, take a step back. He shouldn't expect you to nurse his comedowns though, although i've been guilty of that before lol
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    Welcome Squad
    Hi OP, I don't know much about drugs and I'm not as knowledgeable as people who have posted on this thread, so I can't really help you with the scientific knowledge etc.
    However, I have experience in caring for loved ones who have addiction, it takes it's toll, and I know people who have also experienced the same.
    Honestly, I'd suggest talking to him first and airing your views and opinions, if he changes or relaxes up a bit, then fine. But, if he doesn't and he continues to depend on you then leave him, he won't change too soon and he'll continue to drag you down. You're 17, you should be young and free, you don't have an obligation to deal with his rubbish, focus on yourself and your work and move on.
    That's all I can say.
    Best wishes, and just make yourself happy.
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    The obvious answer is to leave the guy if you don't like the personal choices he makes, it isn't your responsibility to look after him.
 
 
 
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