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    (Original post by ANB1993)

    And on what grounds do you come to that conclusion? Having lived through schools in Ireland and having just left for university, I can promise you that within the next 20 years there will be an outbreak of the troubles. However, it may be the unionists fighting guerrilla warfare as a United Ireland is on the rising.
    It won't be to the same degree as before.

    Before the ROI was a breeding ground for terrorism because Ireland was poor and there were not as many opportunities for the young. That situation has largely changed.

    Oh sure..I agree with that latter point. If there are troubles, it will be from the Unionist end. Having said that, the demographic shifts and immigration, I don't really anticipate widespread guerilla warfare.

    The big long term problem is how the ROI will be absorb NI with the cost involved of such an act.
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    most of today's current youth don't have a clue about current affairs or politics in general, some might have a small amount of knowledge but still only a really basic knowledge of it they don't know the details. Infact many don't even realise that Ireland is split into two countries I have met quite a few people who just think Ireland is one big country.
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    To answer your question, it is yes and no. The fact of the matter is, that when the majority votes, Ireland will be united and currently the percentage of Protestants to Catholics in Ireland in 52-48. When this vote goes through, the delay of partition and the relatively "peaceful" years will be forgotten with an outburst of violence

    And on what grounds do you come to that conclusion? Having lived through schools in Ireland and having just left for university, I can promise you that within the next 20 years there will be an outbreak of the troubles. However, it may be the unionists fighting guerrilla warfare as a United Ireland is on the rising.
    I agree with you!

    The sad thing is, whilst there is and will be a peaceful, democratic argument favouring a United Ireland - Sinn Fein, with their current politicians aren't the best advocates of it and so it is (at the moment) as simple as being Protestants will vote no and Catholics will vote yes. That said, recent polls have shown that Catholics, as long as the current economic conditions prevail, do see themselves as better off in the UK - the NI economy is in a dire state, combine that with the fact that the Republic is slowly emerging form real financial difficulties, and a United Ireland is off the cards.

    I do agree too, that the next "Troubles" will be when a minority of "dissident" loyalists oppose a Yes vote for a United Ireland. Conflict in Ireland is (sadly) and always was inevitable in my view. Had Ireland been given full independence instead of partition following the Anglo Irish Treaty, the Irish Civil War would have taken a different context and instead of being anti-Treaty Republicans fighting the pro-Treaty Republicans (and the Irish Free State forces), you'd have had loyalists (as anti-Treaty) fighting the Irish Free State Forces.

    If a United Ireland occurs in the next 20 years, you can expect that a minority of dissident loyalists will be fighting against the Irish Armed forces on the streets of Belfast and that could be our 2nd Troubles!
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    (Original post by bahjat93)
    Someone told me that the Irish wanted some potatoes from the English because there potatoes were eaten by worms and the English were like "No!" and then they rebelled and demanded freedom .
    I've never taken History, so my knowledge is based on word of mouth
    :facepalm:
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    (Original post by Cmca1)
    My concern is that those involved in politics from outside Ireland who try to impose a view on others or who make empty political statements about the conflict in Ireland (North or South) actually don't know what they are talking about.

    'The Ireland situation' as you called it is on-going. I watched BBC Newsline tonight (BBC NI) and could not believe the number of headlines dedicated towards sectarian events - Dissident republicans attacking police at Easter Rising commemorations, petrol bombs, Orange Order marching through nationalist areas etc - and this is supposed to be NI in a peaceful stage.

    Our politicians who take seats in the power sharing Executive are supposed to represent everyone and should be everyone's First Minister, Deputy First Minister, Health Minister, Culture Minister etc etc, but you wouldn't believe the stupid, sectarian garbage that spews from some of their mouths sometimes - it's a depressing state of affairs.

    To answer your question about what happened:

    In my view, Ireland should have remained united as one country, either as an independent Republic or as a constituent nation within the UK. I completely understand why people fought for Irish independence, because they were undoubtedly given second class citizenship in their own country, but the conflict that followed partition both through the Irish Civil War and later the Troubles was not worth it. The lasting legacy of the Troubles is still evident in our society in cities like Belfast, Derry etc.

    Partition was supposed to be a temporary fix for Republicans and nationalists who wanted independence, but we still don't have it. The conflict and division meanwhile, although it is much much less, has simply been concentrated and confined to the North. So has partition worked for anyone?
    The recession removed the neutral voters, who might have considered being part of a united Ireland.

    My view on Ireland is a bit contradictory, I wouldn't mind Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England being 4 states of a United Kingdom. At the same time I believe in a united Ireland, free from British rule. Of course, the view of independence was easy to see considering British influence over the years. The IRA campaign for partition was something I would have supported (well, if asked which side of the coin I favoured, minus the violence) and at the same time I would have been pleased at the time, because I'm a believer in Michael Collins and I genuinely believe he hoped that it would act as a springboard FOR a united Ireland.

    But, after the tragedy of the Irish Civil War, Collins dead and no progress since of rejoining, it has backfired for me.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    It won't be to the same degree as before.

    Before the ROI was a breeding ground for terrorism because Ireland was poor and there were not as many opportunities for the young. That situation has largely changed.

    The NI still has problems but I don't anticipate it spiralling out of control.

    The big long term problem is how the ROI will be absorb NI with the cost involved of such an act.
    Ah but that is the thing, ROI was a breeding ground for Nationalist terrorism. The different Nationalist revolutionary arms would strike and it would be tit for tat against the unionists The situation in the North is different. I am not talking about a breeding ground for Nationalists, I am talking about unionists. When, and I mean when, not if, the vote goes through for a united Ireland, there will be chaos. The saying in Ireland has always been strike when the iron is hot and that is exactly what they will do as they are numerically similar. If you look at the fortnight long riot that was caused when taking the flag down caused, could you imagine how much chaos would be caused if you took their country away from them, a country that symbolises hope and prosperity to these unionists in keeping their ties to Britain.
    Finally, I have acquaintances, former friends, who have told me they would shoot me if the troubles broke out again because every one less of me would help to keep the country tied to Britain, and I am not even a Catholic or Nationalist. Now of course this can be taken as a immature threat and it would be very different in reality. But, the reality is that they would if it meant staying under the crown.
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    (Original post by Shabalala)
    most of today's current youth don't have a clue about current affairs or politics in general, some might have a small amount of knowledge but still only a really basic knowledge of it they don't know the details. Infact many don't even realise that Ireland is split into two countries I have met quite a few people who just think Ireland is one big country.

    Good for nationalists that, am sure that will annoy a few loyalists.
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    My question would be to those not from Ireland, how familiar are you about the current protests? The Fleg coming down off City Hall. Jamie Bryson, Willlie Frazer etc.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    The recession removed the neutral voters, who might have considered being part of a united Ireland.
    The recession did remove most of the neutral voters. However, Loyalist marches stating the importance of remaining under the crown have intensified in the last two years and this is pushing moderate Catholics, who may have well stayed in the union, towards a United Ireland.
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    Ah but that is the thing, ROI was a breeding ground for Nationalist terrorism. The different Nationalist revolutionary arms would strike and it would be tit for tat against the unionists The situation in the North is different. I am not talking about a breeding ground for Nationalists, I am talking about unionists. When, and I mean when, not if, the vote goes through for a united Ireland, there will be chaos. The saying in Ireland has always been strike when the iron is hot and that is exactly what they will do as they are numerically similar. If you look at the fortnight long riot that was caused when taking the flag down caused, could you imagine how much chaos would be caused if you took their country away from them, a country that symbolises hope and prosperity to these unionists in keeping their ties to Britain.
    Finally, I have acquaintances, former friends, who have told me they would shoot me if the troubles broke out again because every one less of me would help to keep the country tied to Britain, and I am not even a Catholic or Nationalist. Now of course this can be taken as a immature threat and it would be very different in reality. But, the reality is that they would if it meant staying under the crown.
    Sure. I agree with you now.

    My view was as a recent immigrant to the ROI from Britain and everything seems fairly good here even during the recession. So I guess that led me to underestimate the antipathy there would be from the Northern Unionists. The way you described it reminds me a lot of the Balkans and the antipathy the Serbs had towards other minorities like the Muslims that formed significant portions of the Kosovo.

    By the way, I think my view ( before you explained it) is probably the view of a lot of the younger generation of British citizens. I also don't think they realise that the Union will happen within our lifetimes.

    SO I guess you were correct in your initial statement!
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    Nyah, most of the UK couldn't give two ****s about our wee country. I still get asked by English people if Norn Iron uses the Euro. Does my head in, really. If they're going to claim as part of their country, they could at least get some basic education on the place.

    My experience is that most people think they know what's happened, but they have a rather basic view of the whole thing, ignoring a lot of the complexities that have arisen over the centuries.

    As for Frazer et al., I would imagine some know about the protests, especially given there were protests in Glasgow and Liverpool over the flag being removed from Belfast City Hall.
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    I know that if the IRA keep up with what they're doing recently the special forces will be deployed yet again (If they haven't already.)

    Sad really, you'd of thought they would of learnt by now.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    The recession did remove most of the neutral voters. However, Loyalist marches stating the importance of remaining under the crown have intensified in the last two years and this is pushing moderate Catholics, who may have well stayed in the union, towards a United Ireland.
    One thing I forgot, why has the Orange Order not been banned as a sectarian organisation? Surely as it doesn't allow Catholics to join, it's discriminating?

    No actually....I can imagine what might happen.

    A tribute at this point, to a true modern thinker in Northern Ireland.

    Terence O'Neill
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    (Original post by meenu89)
    I know about the other Republicans who are really unhappy. Something about the first Catholic from the PS of NI to be killed. I didn't know that the troubles may start again.
    that is because it has a low chance of starting up again.

    The police service is now a mixed one which looks towards being fair as opposed to the RUC who would often literally stand and watch (if not help) burn, beat and kill catholics out of their homes.

    There are equal rights for everyone now. The main reason the troubles started was not due to the border but due to the fact Catholics on the UK side of the border were treated as second class citizens. The civil rights movement in the USA during the 50/60s such as Dr. King etc was an inspiration for the youth of NI in the 1960s.

    The power sharing government rules out a possibility of any unionist discrimination on a large scale happening ever again. When they controlled the government, Westminster turned a blind eye to the crimes they were committing until 1969 when enough was enough and the army was sent in to protect the nationalist population from the police and unionists.

    The troubles didn't just start overnight. It was born out of a range of circumstances including a younger more radical IRA which does not exist today. The IRA today are mostly sectarian bigots or old school republicans who resent the GFA.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    One thing I forgot, why has the Orange Order not been banned as a sectarian organisation? Surely as it doesn't allow Catholics to join, it's discriminating?

    No actually....I can imagine what might happen.

    A tribute at this point, to a true modern thinker in Northern Ireland.

    Terence O'Neill
    As far as I'm aware, the Orange Order doesn't prohibit Roman Catholics from joining, it's just expressly against Roman Catholicism as a religion. A subtle difference that is enough to allow the bigots to enjoy themselves, but keeps them from being banned.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Sure. I agree with you now.

    My view was as a recent immigrant to the ROI from Britain and everything seems fairly good here even during the recession. So I guess that led me to underestimate the antipathy there would be from the Northern Unionists. The way you described it reminds me a lot of the Balkans and the antipathy the Serbs had towards other minorities like the Muslims that formed significant portions of the Kosovo.

    By the way, I think my view ( before you explained it) is probably the view of a lot of the younger generation of British citizens. I also don't think they realise that the Union will happen within our lifetimes.

    SO I guess you were correct in your initial statement!
    Haha I do not mind that people are not award of it or think differently about what is going on. I was just trying to get a grasp of what the opinion of anyone who has an inkling towards the Irish situation in England! Thanks very much for your responses!
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    And on what grounds do you come to that conclusion? Having lived through schools in Ireland and having just left for university, I can promise you that within the next 20 years there will be an outbreak of the troubles.
    And on what grounds do you come to that conclusion? Because the grounds you have stated are insufficient.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    As far as I'm aware, the Orange Order doesn't prohibit Roman Catholics from joining, it's just expressly against Roman Catholicism as a religion. A subtle difference that is enough to allow the bigots to enjoy themselves, but keeps them from being banned.
    Actually, they do prohibit Roman Catholics from joining. My Grandfather was very high up, whilst my dad got kicked out for marrying a Catholic!
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    As far as I'm aware, the Orange Order doesn't prohibit Roman Catholics from joining, it's just expressly against Roman Catholicism as a religion. A subtle difference that is enough to allow the bigots to enjoy themselves, but keeps them from being banned.
    We get a lot of those marches around Liverpool. I have never seen a more vile collection of drunken louts in my life. I found their chants frightening and I'm not even a catholic.
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    Actually, they do prohibit Roman Catholics from joining. My Grandfather was very high up, whilst my dad got kicked out for marrying a Catholic!
    They target "non-reformed faiths" according to Wikipedia to avoid the accusation of discrimination. A slight difference, but one that lets them get away with it.


    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    We get a lot of those marches around Liverpool. I have never seen a more vile collection of drunken louts in my life. I found their chants frightening and I'm not even a catholic.
    It's all about keeping Protestantism strong and in charge in NI and the world, really.
 
 
 
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