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    (Original post by SpiggyTopes)
    But it's not really a pay rise. If you do the maths you work out that she basically has a TAX rate of 85%, and that she gives the government £204M per year.
    You are mistaken. She didn't "give" the government anything.

    The Crown Estate belongs to the legal entity known as the crown (or, as Fortescue used to call it, the character angelus), not to the biological entity known as Elizabeth Windsor.

    Now, the equitable ownership (a concept in trust law) can be vested in whoever parliament declares the monarch. The beneficial ownership is vested in parliament/exchequer. The biological entity Elizabeth Windsor has no proprietary rights over the crown estate whatsoever, and the 15% concession is entirely a function of what parliament/exchequer has chosen to grant to the crown.

    Therefore, in no sense could it be called a gift from Mrs Windsor, a tax, a benevolence, or in any sense something she has graciously granted us.

    Only Sandringham and Balmoral are the private property of Elizabeth Windsor.

    Also, it's pretty craven that the government chose to make the monarchy more indepedent of parliament by granting them a 15% concession on the profits of the crown estate. Then again, what else should we expect from a descendent of one of William IV's *******s?
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    (Original post by SpiggyTopes)
    Can it really be said that giving the Queen back an extra £5m of her earnings is unfair?
    Her earnings? That can only said to be the case if she takes back responsibility for paying the salaries of judges and the armed forces that George III surrendered in 1760.

    If you were to take those costs against the earnings of the crown estate since 1760 (particularly considering the costs of the armed forces during the World Wars), the Royal Family would be so indebted to parliament they would go bankrupt.

    Edit: Or if we're to be fair, maybe the Queen should just take responsibility for 15% of the salaries of judges and the armed forces. Do you think the royal finances could bear that? Or could it fairly be said to be a complete farce to claim that the crown estate is the property of the Queen without applying the same historical financial responsibilities of the crown?
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    If the Crown Estate, or anything similar, had never been formed then the properties and land would still be owned by the monarch, wouldn't they?
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    She doesn't get paid no, but she lives a life of absolute luxury almost entirely at the tax payers expense.
    Well, no. The vast majority of her day-to-day living expenses are paid for privately, as are her non-official residences like Sandringham and Balmoral.
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    (Original post by SpiggyTopes)
    If the Crown Estate, or anything similar, had never been formed then the properties and land would still be owned by the monarch, wouldn't they?
    That depends on whether right by conquest / appropriation remains a legitimate form of ownership?

    If I have the power to kick you out of your house, do I and my ancestors have the right to own it in perpetuity?
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    (Original post by playingcards)
    That depends on whether right by conquest / appropriation remains a legitimate form of ownership?

    If I have the power to kick you out of your house, do I and my ancestors have the right to own it in perpetuity?
    It's a tough one- is it something which can be policed now? I'd expect nearly every one of us has inherited something, or some of the proceeds of something similarly.
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    Think of how many corgis you could get with that
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Well, no. The vast majority of her day-to-day living expenses are paid for privately, as are her non-official residences like Sandringham and Balmoral.
    By 'privately' do you mean by her 'private' income from the duchies?
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    (Original post by SpiggyTopes)
    This is exactly the kind of rubbish I'm talking about! I can understand some republic arguments but this one is just absurd!

    She has not been given any money, she has just been allowed to keep more of HER OWN money.

    Based on your calculation, The Queen already funds £3.30 TAX credit for everybody, including YOU- she pays us, we don't pay her!
    You assume she is a an ordinary hard working tax payer which is hardly the case. She hasn't done a productive money earning days work in her life, it is simply her assets making money because wealth generates more wealth.

    Ordinarily you could argue "her ancestors earned that money so she could have it" well that isn't true her ancestors didn't earn it, her family was put on the throne by our government at the time (that could only be voted for by wealth land owning males of course) simply because all of the other closely related heirs were catholics and we didn't want that.

    She is Queen because of past failures in democracy and religious prejudice.
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    (Original post by rsplaya)
    You assume she is a an ordinary hard working tax payer which is hardly the case. She hasn't done a productive money earning days work in her life, it is simply her assets making money because wealth generates more wealth.

    Ordinarily you could argue "her ancestors earned that money so she could have it" well that isn't true her ancestors didn't earn it, her family was put on the throne by our government at the time (that could only be voted for by wealth land owning males of course) simply because all of the other closely related heirs were catholics and we didn't want that.

    She is Queen because of past failures in democracy and religious prejudice.
    She does more work than most- especially at her age!

    Why should the way you earn your money affect you highly you're taxed? Why should she pay twice as much tax (rate wise) as Gerald Grosvenor (assuming he pays his tax! )?

    If there was a democratic referendum she'd certainly stay as Queen!
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    (Original post by SpiggyTopes)
    She does more work than most- especially at her age!

    Why should the way you earn your money affect you highly you're taxed? Why should she pay twice as much tax (rate wise) as Gerald Grosvenor (assuming he pays his tax! )?

    If there was a democratic referendum she'd certainly stay as Queen!
    The electorate are mostly idiots that barely understand politics or anything they vote on. The British are more political illiterate than the Americans for god sake.
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    (Original post by rsplaya)
    The electorate are mostly idiots that barely understand politics or anything they vote on. The British are more political illiterate than the Americans for god sake.
    So you don't actually care about democracy? Your opinion is better than everyone else's because you think they're less clever than you?
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    (Original post by SpiggyTopes)
    She does more work than most- especially at her age!

    Why should the way you earn your money affect you highly you're taxed? Why should she pay twice as much tax (rate wise) as Gerald Grosvenor (assuming he pays his tax! )?

    If there was a democratic referendum she'd certainly stay as Queen!
    She doesn't earn money, the crown earns money. Some of which is given to the government, some of which (the royal duchies) she gets to keep.
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    (Original post by SpiggyTopes)
    So you don't actually care about democracy? Your opinion is better than everyone else's because you think they're less clever than you?
    The monarchy isn't even close to being transparent though to have a vote on it.
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    (Original post by rsplaya)
    The electorate are mostly idiots that barely understand politics or anything they vote on. The British are more political illiterate than the Americans for god sake.
    Loool I doubt Sarah Palin could become an MP never mind come so close to being deputy leader lool!
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    (Original post by SpiggyTopes)
    So you don't actually care about democracy? Your opinion is better than everyone else's because you think they're less clever than you?
    So you do care about democracy?

    Excellent, you’ll be fully in favour of the people voting to decide who represents us as Head of State.
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    (Original post by playingcards)
    That depends on whether right by conquest / appropriation remains a legitimate form of ownership?

    If I have the power to kick you out of your house, do I and my ancestors have the right to own it in perpetuity?
    Most Lords who have inherited their wealth and land do so because in the past they took them by conquest or were simply given it by the Monarch.
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    (Original post by Idle)
    Most Lords who have inherited their wealth and land do so because in the past they took them by conquest or were simply given it by the Monarch.
    Correct.
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    It's also worth noting (as I believe it says in the OP's article) that when adjusted for inflation the amount the Crown has received is actually down on ten years ago.
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    How much of the £36m does she lose because she has so many empty bedrooms?
 
 
 
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