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Is it wrong to spend money whilst there are homeless people out there? watch

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    your mum can come and kiss me goodnight
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    (Original post by R1C3W1N3)
    Did he pay you back?
    he was really a cool dude hey, but homeless... but no he didnt pay me back,,,, later,,, like a year later, i saw that he managed to win a girl that took care of him,,, so there was an hapy end after all.... ( the gitar was worth 200 dollars so i dint die hey..haha )
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    (Original post by pmc:producer)
    Ignorance? I highly doubt that buddy. I used to think I relied on my parents as much as the next person. But when you stand on your own two feet, it's not as scary as you first thought.

    That was the message in that last post. And no, that is not ignorance. It's fact.
    To think everyone can do what you do and its that easy is ignorant, lets say you never got the job you have, you then wouldnt have the car and your own place, not everyone finds that job to get them out there!
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    (Original post by pmc:producer)
    every Christmas I give the first homeless person I see a £10 note And I give the odd pound here and there through the weeks when I see some.
    Seriously, don't do that. The vast majority have a drug/alcohol problem and you are only making it worse by giving them money. Not only are you not helping, you're actively harming them.

    Give them food directly instead (ask what they'd want before you buy it), or better, get vouchers for the local homeless shelter.
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    Also, how about people who have millions of pounds that they don't need? Like musicians and football players? Is that morally wrong?
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    Seriously, don't do that. The vast majority have a drug/alcohol problem and you are only making it worse by giving them money. Not only are you not helping, you're actively harming them.

    Give them food directly instead (ask what they'd want before you buy it), or better, get vouchers for the local homeless shelter.
    giving a homeless person a tenner is a waste. that's like 2 meals. better of supporting your town's hostels and soup kitchen's so they can afford better quality food I think
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    (Original post by Ziggy2252)
    To think everyone can do what you do and its that easy is ignorant, lets say you never got the job you have, you then wouldnt have the car and your own place, not everyone finds that job to get them out there!

    You're confusing ignorance with a difference of opinion buddy. Of course finding a job isn't easy - and for the second time, that is not what I was implying. Instead - that it's not as difficult as you'd imagine without the support of parents.

    For the record, I've never been out of employment since I was 16, I'm not 23. And currently, I don't have one friend out of work. If you make yourself employable you have just as good a chance of finding a job as anyone else out there. Granted they are hard to come by.
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    Buying luxury goods for yourself but not others is not necessarily a bad thing, it's a form of self-satisfaction and it's a natural thing for all of us to do.

    Self-satisfcation/selfishness is innate, it stems from a natural desire to survive and be better than other individual within a population. In this case buying luxuries is not directly linked to the act of survival, but the thought processes behind materialism and consumerism definitely reflects the thought processes behind the raw instinct of survival. Therefore, buying luxury goods, which are wants but not needs, is as much of a natural thing to humans as is trying to find food or caring for your offspring.

    However, when you get really wealthy, is it immoral to not give others the luxury goods and maybe the basic needs that you have but they don't?
    I think it really depends on how you got to have the wealth you currently have. If you have truly worked for it, and rose from the bottom to the top of the social ladder (And you did this without "cheating the system"), then I believe that there is no need to give back, when many others have probably already taken a lot away from you.
    However, most people have got their wealth either because their family was wealthy or because they inherited the whole lot. In this case do you have to give back to society when you haven't earnt the entirety of your wealth?

    What if you cheated your way up the social ladder and got wealthy that way. Well do you have to give back to society if you are in this case? Isn't taking advantage of certain opportunities a natural thing to do? Obviously this creates a logical fallacy, since if we had this mindset then we might just as conclude that anything natural is good for us and society in general.

    Are we entitled to help those who are really in need? Well I think a healthy human being would. This is because behind all these altruistic acts hides a selfish intent. When you help someone you feel good about yourself, it's another act of self-satisfaction. An act of compassion is a great thing because not only does it create self-satisfaction, but it satisfies both parties (or more) who are involved in the act.

    I think that buying luxury goods for yourself is not an immoral thing to do, as I said it's a form of self-satisfaction, and it's good for the self. It's not necessarily because of you that the person is homeless, so you have no moral obligation to give back as an individual (by this I mean only considering your case and not the whole of society or previous events before you). However, when it is clear to you that someone is clearly suffering and you are in the right position to help, then I believe that you have a moral obligation to help. If you didn't help this person they may die or suffer even more, you didn't necessarily cause this, but you did observe it, and to me that is enough to give you a moral obligation to do something.

    Is selfishness morally wrong? I don't know. Although if we were to follow a Buddhist's philosophy we might end up saying all selfishness does it cause craving, which causes suffering, which is bad for the individual, and indeed has negative effects on a group too. Therefore, we might deduce that selfishness is immoral and also irrational.

    ***

    I think you're rather deluded about the "outside world". Society is not fair, people take advantage of each other, and this is all natural as I've said before, but whether it is moral is another question (and it's something I've tried to address above). But the fact is you'll probably never rise above the social status you are in now, nor sink down into the lowest depths of the social ladder (by your own will anyway). Even the notion of free will is rejected by systems created by conscious beings such as ourselves, it just shows how much little control we really have over our lives.
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    (Original post by pmc:producer)
    You're confusing ignorance with a difference of opinion buddy. Of course finding a job isn't easy - and for the second time, that is not what I was implying. Instead - that it's not as difficult as you'd imagine without the support of parents.

    For the record, I've never been out of employment since I was 16, I'm not 23. And currently, I don't have one friend out of work. If you make yourself employable you have just as good a chance of finding a job as anyone else out there. Granted they are hard to come by.
    Exactly, and that's why most people live with their parents (even for a little while) until they can get a job that will allow them to become indepedent.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    Seriously, don't do that. The vast majority have a drug/alcohol problem and you are only making it worse by giving them money. Not only are you not helping, you're actively harming them.

    Give them food directly instead (ask what they'd want before you buy it), or better, get vouchers for the local homeless shelter.
    If someone has a drug problem, then not giving them money is only going to make them steal instead. Its not going to magically get them into detox and rehab. In fact, not giving an alcoholic money for a drink can actively harm them - alcohol withdrawal can be fatal.

    Give money if you're going to give anything.
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    A-Dog is an insightful person to say this topic.

    Note that I do not say 'good' for equating that with a moral conscience is secretly regarded as a dirty thing to do to many who lived, and live now, in the 'Greed is Good' age.

    No, you students live in your expensive houses and you buy your expensive cars and you salve your conscience perhaps by going to live with a tribe in Africa for a few months. Not the lonely old (and 'old', as in a veteran, can really be of many ages from early 20s) war hero who lives down your street, oh no. Not glamourous or politically correct seeming a cause enough for you and talk of war from the side of the victor would make you feel uneasy and unmanly yourself in your skinny jeans.

    If there is a God , make no mistake - people like A-Dog will win the long game, even if it only seems so in the next life.

    But it's arguably even more beautiful to be a kind, benevolent, atheist. You don't have to sacrifice your oh so biting cynical wit, just use it sparingly. Have a different head with different people a bit.

    Think of all the people that you most admire and I bet you that a significant proportion, even at their most 'out there', are quite traditional or humble at heart, at least in your company. If they had the same attitude to everyone else outside their nice little clique they would fit in so much better in the world whilst not sacrificing anything of the closer friendships that they have.

    Take a leaf out of A-Dog's book a bit unless you want to be superceded at some point by someone who is even more selfish and , worse, younger and with less to lose, than you.
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    I bloody well hope not. I'm buying an original DDR/Dancing Stage arcade dance machine soon for my house!
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    If someone has a drug problem, then not giving them money is only going to make them steal instead. Its not going to magically get them into detox and rehab. In fact, not giving an alcoholic money for a drink can actively harm them - alcohol withdrawal can be fatal.

    Give money if you're going to give anything.
    What?! No - that is terrible advice. You cannot honestly be suggesting giving money to people so that they can keep buying drugs for the rest of their life?! How on earth will that solve anything?

    You give them what they need - food and shelter. If they can't get drugs, they go into withdrawal, end up in hospital/rehab, and get clean. It can be dangerous yes, but so is shooting up or drinking yourself into a coma on the freezing streets.

    NEVER give homeless people money people.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    What?! No - that is terrible advice. You cannot honestly be suggesting giving money to people so that they can keep buying drugs indefinitely?! How on earth will that solve anything?

    You give them what they need - food and shelter.

    NEVER give homeless people money people.
    Really, no. If someone asks for money, give them money. First of all, its up to them how to spend their money. Not all homeless people have substance misuse problems. Secondly, they'll get the money somehow if they have a substance dependence, so you're making theft more likely. Thirdly alcohol withdrawal (and benzodiazepine withdrawal) can be fatal, so you might just save their life. Lastly, if you're living on the street its crap, being in withdrawal from anything will make it more crap.

    I know that the big homeless charities advise not to give money to people on the street, but this is for political reasons and because they want funding. Talk to frontline workers and they'll say the same as me.
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    Look OP, you seem to think that no one has ever thought of this before. Stop bloody whining on and go and volunteer in a homeless shelter. Or at a food kitchen. Give money, raise awareness. Just sitting around feeling guilty has never helped anyone. You've got to go and do something about it.

    But, as someone else has already said, there will always be poverty. You can't save everyone, and that's just tough. All you can do is make your contribution and hope it does some good.
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    I know it's sad to see people living in bad conditions, and I know that many of them really just got unlucky in their lives, but it isn't your fault.
    Of course, do good deeds, donate to charity etc.
    But your parents worked hard to get their money, you are working hard to get through college to do well + earn money in the future. You deserve to be able to spend that money how you see fit.

    As sad as it may be to look at, you cannot hold yourself accountable for other peoples bad situations, you cannot change it on your own. So do your share of good deeds but apart from that, make the most of what you have.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    What?! No - that is terrible advice. You cannot honestly be suggesting giving money to people so that they can keep buying drugs for the rest of their life?! How on earth will that solve anything?

    You give them what they need - food and shelter. If they can't get drugs, they go into withdrawal, end up in hospital/rehab, and get clean. It can be dangerous yes, but so is shooting up or drinking yourself into a coma on the freezing streets.

    NEVER give homeless people money people.
    Don't just take my word for it, here's the view of ex homeless drug user and now user advocate Mark Johnson

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...s-drug-addicts
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    (Original post by pmc:producer)
    P.S. the world isn't that hard without parents (vs having them supporting you financially). I have no parents who are supporting me through my education. I have a job, a house & a car. Life is what you make it.
    How old are you?
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Don't just take my word for it, here's the view of ex homeless drug user and now user advocate Mark Johnson

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...s-drug-addicts
    That guy is advocating giving money even if it kills the person. Not caring about the person at all, just giving money for the sake of it. If you aren't concerned about that then fine, give them money, but i also think you need to re-evaluate your morals if i'm honest.

    So i'll rephrase just for you - if you are interested in helping them, then don't give the homeless money.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    That guy is advocating giving money even if it kills the person. Not caring about the person at all, just giving money for the sake of it. If you aren't concerned about that then fine, give them money, but i also think you need to re-evaluate your morals if i'm honest.

    So i'll rephrase just for you - if you are interested in helping them, then don't give the homeless money.
    And I suggest listening to the people who have front line experience of this work (like me, 10 years working in homeless drug services) and to the people who have been there and now give a voice to people who are still there (like Mark Johnson).
 
 
 
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