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    (Original post by Kousar)
    I totally get you. But you said the breasts of a woman should not be seen as a sexual object. Well it is. And always will be. Men find boobs attractive, showing them in attempt to get the message accross of 'I want liberty' is hugely comical.
    I said they should not be regarded FIRST AND FOREMOST as a sexual object, i.e. the person's sexual attraction to breasts are more important than the woman who owns them. It's fine to be sexually attracted to something in private, the issue is that apparently that is more important than the breasts' status as a part of the woman's body, which belongs to HER. She has the right to do what she likes with them, just because someone finds them attractive that doesn't suddenly entitle them to behave in a particular way.

    ...unless you're arguing men are incapable of controlling themselves? An equally sexist and disturbing viewpoint.

    What's amazing me is the amount of neg reps I'm getting simply for stating that a woman's right to her own body is more important than a man's right to objectify that body. That rather f'in says it all, really.
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    I said they should not be regarded FIRST AND FOREMOST as a sexual object, i.e. the person's sexual attraction to breasts are more important than the woman who owns them. It's fine to be sexually attracted to something in private, the issue is that apparently that is more important than the breasts' status as a part of the woman's body, which belongs to HER. She has the right to do what she likes with them, just because someone finds them attractive that doesn't suddenly entitle them to behave in a particular way.

    ...unless you're arguing men are incapable of controlling themselves? An equally sexist and disturbing viewpoint.

    What's amazing me is the amount of neg reps I'm getting simply for stating that a woman's right to her own body is more important than a man's right to objectify that body. That rather f'in says it all, really.
    Please get over the negative reps! I get them, for simply stating my opinions. Nothing crude or offensive, some people overuse them :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Kousar)
    Please get over the negative reps! I get them, for simply stating my opinions. Nothing crude or offensive, some people overuse them :rolleyes:
    I'm just astounded that a woman's right to her own body is apparently such an offensive notion.
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    I'm just astounded that a woman's right to her own body is apparently such an offensive notion.
    It's not an offensive notion at all. I hear you. But I really think the act lacks dignity, that's my thought anyway.
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    (Original post by Kousar)
    It's not an offensive notion at all. I hear you. But I really think the act lacks dignity, that's my thought anyway.
    And why does it lack dignity? Because men are sexually attracted to breasts? Then my point stands.
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    And why does it lack dignity? Because men are sexually attracted to breasts? Then my point stands.
    Because I believe in rights and wrongs. And to go on the streets half naked, to me, is uncivilised. Yes, because men find breasts attractive. But that is not my sole reason for finding it lacks dignity. As a female (and a believer in women's rights, if they call that feminism then I guess I'm a feminist), I find it embarrassing. I find it embarrassing that women feel that blaring breasts is the only way to make a point. Because it damn right isn't. Look at the Suffragettes for example, how they achieved emancipaiton. There are other means.
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    (Original post by Kousar)
    Because I believe in rights and wrongs. And to go on the streets half naked, to me, is uncivilised. Yes, because men find breasts attractive. But that is not my sole reason for finding it lacks dignity. As a female (and a believer in women's rights, if they call that feminism then I guess I'm a feminist), I find it embarrassing. I find it embarrassing that women feel that blaring breasts is the only way to make a point. Because it damn right isn't. Look at the Suffragettes for example, how they achieved emancipaiton. There are other means.
    In a society where people don't listen, what other option is there?

    Why is it that man can walk around topless, but women can't?

    Another point: Suffragettes tied chained themselves to Buckingham palace and threw themselves in front of the carts of the Royal Family. Suffragettes DIED for their beliefs, and they were considered undignified by the standards of their time too. Notions of dignity are RELATIVE. They took far more drastic measures. You honestly going to try and tell me that it's better for people to have to resort to that than occasionally, oops, display a ball of fat to the world?
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    (Original post by Kousar)
    Because I believe in rights and wrongs. And to go on the streets half naked, to me, is uncivilised. Yes, because men find breasts attractive. But that is not my sole reason for finding it lacks dignity. As a female (and a believer in women's rights, if they call that feminism then I guess I'm a feminist), I find it embarrassing. I find it embarrassing that women feel that blaring breasts is the only way to make a point. Because it damn right isn't. Look at the Suffragettes for example, how they achieved emancipaiton. There are other means.
    I think the point he's trying to make is, why does it offend you so much? You're just reiterating the same point that you find it crass and undignified. But why?
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    (Original post by Basil Brush)
    I think the point he's trying to make is, why does it offend you so much? You're just reiterating the same point that you find it crass and undignified. But why?
    Because there's other means to gain attention. Yes, I'm not denying that it didn't make it to the news, of course it has. We're discussing it now. But it's counterproductive. I doubt the Tunisian government's going to be like, Oh okay, you don't need repressing anymore. They're going to get the impression that women are irrational.
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    (Original post by Kousar)
    Because there's other means to gain attention. Yes, I'm not denying that it didn't make it to the news, of course it has. We're discussing it now. But it's counterproductive. I doubt the Tunisian government's going to be like, Oh okay, you don't need repressing anymore. They're going to get the impression that women are irrational.
    And the point we're making is that they're going to get that impression because of patriarchy and unfair beliefs. Again... the other means... like what, throwing herself under a bus? Why should her actions conform to YOUR beliefs about acceptable gender behaviour?
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    And the point we're making is that they're going to get that impression because of patriarchy and unfair beliefs. Again... the other means... like what, throwing herself under a bus? Why should her actions conform to YOUR beliefs about acceptable gender behaviour?
    wait, wait wait. No one said their actions should conform to my beliefs. I merely stated that I found the actions repulsive and counterproductive, I merely stated I felt their concerns could be expressed in other ways...
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    (Original post by Kousar)
    wait, wait wait. No one said their actions should conform to my beliefs. I merely stated that I found the actions repulsive and counterproductive, I merely stated I felt their concerns could be expressed in other ways...
    You have tried to argue the actions are undignified as if that is an objective fact.
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    You have tried to argue the actions are undignified as if that is an objective fact.
    Yes, an objective fact to me. There's a difference.
    I only answered what you asked, from my perspective. Not imposing my views upon anyone!
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    your blog need more b( o Y o )bs
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    (Original post by Kousar)
    Yes, an objective fact to me. There's a difference.
    I only answered what you asked, from my perspective. Not imposing my views upon anyone!

    If it is to YOU, it is not objective, it is subjective.
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    If it is to YOU, it is not objective, it is subjective.
    No, you're not getting my point.Yes, to you, my belief in subejctive (because you don't agree with it). I'm talking about me percieving it as objective but NOT imposing that belief on others. Believing in objective laws does not mean enforcing them upon others.
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    (Original post by htc one s)
    your blog need more b( o Y o )bs
    see what I mean?
    we're all interested in their breasts.
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    (Original post by Kousar)
    No, you're not getting my point.Yes, to you, my belief in subejctive (because you don't agree with it). I'm talking about me percieving it as objective but NOT imposing that belief on others. Believing in objective laws does not mean enforcing them upon others.
    I completely understand what you're saying, but if something is an OPINION, rather than a fact that has been incontrovertibly proved, it is SUBJECTIVE. That is simply a matter of DEFINITIONS. It doesn't matter how much you perceive, it's about whether or not is PROVEN. You can argue it is your opinion and it is important to you, THAT is valid. You CANNOT argue that opinion is based on objective fact.

    The simple fact you have acknowledged, that our opinions differ and there isn't a PROVEN basis for one opinion to be more right than the other, renders it a subjective issue.
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_(philosophy)

    'Generally, objectivity means the state or quality of being true even outside of a subject's individual feelings, imaginings, or interpretations.'
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    I completely understand what you're saying, but if something is an OPINION, rather than a fact that has been incontrovertibly proved, it is SUBJECTIVE. That is simply a matter of DEFINITIONS. It doesn't matter how much you perceive, it's about whether or not is PROVEN. You can argue it is your opinion and it is important to you, THAT is valid. You CANNOT argue that opinion is based on objective fact.

    The simple fact you have acknowledged, that our opinions differ and there isn't a PROVEN basis for one opinion to be more right than the other, renders it a subjective issue.
    I get you but...(arghhhh xD).Orthodox Christians believe in objective moral laws, to you, that might be subjective but to them it isn't.
 
 
 
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