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    (Original post by jamesrobbo1)

    This made me chuckle - not to be condescending but this utterly idealist. Co-operation via a US-lead doctrine
    It's not though, look at how international politics has gone since WW2, it's all about economic and political co-operation.
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    I never "missed" out any potential superpowers, because I wasn't listing potential superpowers in general. The potential superpowers that I even listed were in context - i.e. those where Britain had a considerable influence, previously colonised.
    Yeah I do agree with you, my post was just stating that Russia are powerful. No one can argue that any country comes near India, China or the USA. The future - Brazil?
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    You cannot pass over the fact that globalism is becoming all-pervading, no? Globalism is the new order of the day - this is why nationalism is looking pettier and pettier everyday and is losing importance.

    If a state wants to follow the money and be successful, they must look to globalism.
    Yes globalism is gradually overcoming the Westphalian nation state paradigm - but that does not entail cooperation a la eurocentrism.
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    Sadly, no.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    It's not though, look at how international politics has gone since WW2, it's all about economic and political co-operation.
    Political cooperation does not necessarily follow on from economic - just look at the countless despotic regimes Western states sponser via economic cooperation; this despite not towing democratic values etc.
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    (Original post by jamesrobbo1)
    Political cooperation does not necessarily follow on from economic - just look at the countless despotic regimes Western states sponser via economic cooperation; this despite not towing democratic values etc.
    Political and economic co-operation go hand in hand though. Look at how France acted after WW2, it tied Germany town with the ECSC, it used economic co-operation to bring political co-operation. I'm fairly drunk so I'm probably failing massively at explaining myself coherently, but I just wrote an essay on a similar subject so I will come and explain myself better tomorrow.
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    The UK's influence remains considerable to this day; it's not the backwater many of its more pessimistic residents like to portray.

    However, it isn't a superpower by any means.
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    No ... but transforming into an octopus is a superpower :gah:
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Political and economic co-operation go hand in hand though. Look at how France acted after WW2, it tied Germany town with the ECSC, it used economic co-operation to bring political co-operation. I'm fairly drunk so I'm probably failing massively at explaining myself coherently, but I just wrote an essay on a similar subject so I will come and explain myself better tomorrow.
    I get what you mean - but the very essence of a states existence, if it is at least moderately rational, is economic prosperity. A state will gladly succumb to a despotic regime if said regime has a resource the state needs - oil perchance?
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    its a second tier superpower
    its highly influential, and has veto powers
    however, it no longer has the political grasp of countries as America or the USSR did, nor the resources or cash reserves of China or India
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    (Original post by DeanFoley)
    The UK's influence remains considerable to this day; it's not the backwater many of its more pessimistic residents like to portray.

    However, it isn't a superpower by any means.
    Primarily because it tows the US line - without which it would just be another sorry state. Im saddened by that to some extent - and it should be motivation for the citizens to change things. Sadly most of us are far too apathetic or willing to bask in the lukewarm sun as it finally sets on the Empire - the phrase "the sun never sets on the british empire" is truly dead and buried now.
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    (Original post by jamesrobbo1)
    Primarily because it tows the US line - without which it would just be another sorry state. Im saddened by that to some extent - and it should be motivation for the citizens to change things. Sadly most of us are far too apathetic or willing to bask in the lukewarm sun as it finally sets on the Empire - the phrase "the sun never sets on the british empire" is truly dead and buried now.
    I completely disagree. Britain would remain a great world power without supporting the US to the extent it does now; indeed, I think it's a misconception that they have our unequivocal support. Certainly, the UK is in a better position that it would be for it, but I think it's awfully dismissive to deem us a third rate state without them.
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    (Original post by DeanFoley)
    I completely disagree. Britain would remain a great world power without supporting the US to the extent it does now; indeed, I think it's a misconception that they have our unequivocal support. Certainly, the UK is in a better position that it would be for it, but I think it's awfully dismissive to deem us a third rate state without them.
    Third rate state - perhaps not.

    I would say we are somewhere between France and Germany above us, but the annoyingly oft-reffered to BRICs just below.
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    (Original post by jamesrobbo1)
    Russia is absolutely not a serious economic power

    They have the 8th Largest Economy in the world

    and considering other countries in that block include neutral esque Japan,Germany and Canada and near bankrupt France and Italy. Russia is in the top 4 most influential countries in the world

    I dont buy the Argument the BRICS are all powerful I think they are over rated as a group but individually China and Russia are strong.
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    You can argue it many ways as part of the EU technically on its own id more say great power though.
    Although according to wikis definition;
    A superpower is a state with a dominant position in the international system which has the ability to influence events and its own interests and project power on a worldwide scale to protect those interests.
    We do to a certain degree fulfill that do we not?
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    (Original post by cl_steele)
    You can argue it many ways as part of the EU technically on its own id more say great power though.
    Although according to wikis definition;

    We do to a certain degree fulfill that do we not?
    Thats a mere definition - now tie in our capabilities with those of other states and you will find the image is not so rosy.

    Yes we have nukes - but the military is being stripped down rapidly. You cant use nukes in skirmishes or localised conflicts.
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    (Original post by jamesrobbo1)
    Thats a mere definition - now tie in our capabilities with those of other states and you will find the image is not so rosy.

    Yes we have nukes - but the military is being stripped down rapidly. You cant use nukes in skirmishes or localised conflicts.
    Re-read your first line and think about it again. By definition Russia is more than capable of being on a military par with the US [at least in terms of flattening the world] yet theyre barely meriting great power status these days by standards...
    Besides the comment was somewhat flippant.

    I beg to differ, if Iceland decided to sink a boat then we could quit happily drop a nuke on them... technically nothing is stopping us bar common sense.
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    (Original post by cl_steele)
    Re-read your first line and think about it again. By definition Russia is more than capable of being on a military par with the US [at least in terms of flattening the world] yet theyre barely meriting great power status these days by standards...
    Besides the comment was somewhat flippant.

    I beg to differ, if Iceland decided to sink a boat then we could quit happily drop a nuke on them... technically nothing is stopping us bar common sense.
    Yeah but your assuming that the UK would be willing to use a nuke. Think about history and you will know that has not happened (even when the falklands were invaded). Russia has indeed the capacity to flatten the world - but that implies that diplomacy is akin to a child who wants something - tantrums dont solve crises.

    My point: UK/Russia are both great powers, but the UK compared to the US or even China is pretty much nothing. The principal reason the US uses the UK in join ops is to add legitimacy to said ops
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    (Original post by jamesrobbo1)
    Yeah but your assuming that the UK would be willing to use a nuke. Think about history and you will know that has not happened (even when the falklands were invaded). Russia has indeed the capacity to flatten the world - but that implies that diplomacy is akin to a child who wants something - tantrums dont solve crises.

    My point: UK/Russia are both great powers, but the UK compared to the US or even China is pretty much nothing. The principal reason the US uses the UK in join ops is to add legitimacy to said ops
    Oh i never said it was plausible, just possible. After all the US has the ability to squash each and every one of the countries it dislikes bar Russia quite happily would it do it? Highly unlikely but possible.

    point taken but the concept of super powers is now becoming somewhat dated imo, the whole shabang of blowing up each others cities to achieve ones aims is becoming less likely as apposed to controlling commerce and the flow of money which china and the US have a nice monopoly over... China can squash America and America can squash china simply by selling bonds and closing the marketsto them respectively. once again the chances are miniscule but still possible and have just as much of a nasty impact as dropping a 10mt bomb on a city.
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    It is misleading to think to countries in terms of "us" and "them". That wording pretends that countries are like people. In fact, they are just big groups of people. A country like the UK with 60 million people is never going to stay more powerful than a country of 1billion people like China or India. It was inevitable that this would happen once other countries started to develop.

    We are still a great power and probably the world's most powerful cultural superpower, go to any country in Asia and it is common to see people wearing union jack T-shirts.
 
 
 
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