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    (Original post by askew116)
    Yes I wasn't complaining about this. I felt I had to point it out though due to the comments of 'what you pay in the first year is what you'll pay throughout'
    So are YOU having to pay more? so that next year will be more than the previous year? (sorry just need some clarification)
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    (Original post by StrangerThings)
    Higher Education shouldn't be a luxury or a privilege, it should be a basic right. It isn't fair that people from lower backgrounds who are more than capable of attending university, and graduating with outstanding grades, should be pushed out of applying to university. Yes there are loans to cover, yes there are grants, but on the other hand there is also a huge fear of placing yourself in that much debt. Its horrendous that we now have to chose between an education and trying to find a job that just isn't there.

    If I hadn't chosen to go to university, what else could I do at the moment in this current economical climate than keep borrowing money off my parents and stay at home? The system is floored and needs reworking.
    Have a read of this post: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=1694323
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    (Original post by CRIKEY12)
    So are YOU having to pay more? so that next year will be more than the previous year? (sorry just need some clarification)
    Yes, I am.
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    (Original post by askew116)
    Well I'm just finishing my first year and the fees at my uni are rising next year. This year the tuition fee charged was £8500, and next year it goes up to £8750. I know this is due to inflation, but they are charging this rise to existing students too.
    My mistake then.
    However, if you are charged £9000 tuition fee costs and are being funded by your local authority then you will only have to pay £9000. My school mentioned something about being careful in choosing who is funding you in your application, as if it is not the local authority then the actual cost is over £9000.
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    (Original post by askew116)
    Well I'm just finishing my first year and the fees at my uni are rising next year. This year the tuition fee charged was £8500, and next year it goes up to £8750. I know this is due to inflation, but they are charging this rise to existing students too.
    A rise with inflation means that in real terms your degree costs the same each year. Otherwise, each subsequent year would in real terms cost less. This is not a new thing, fees have been 'rising' year or year ever since fees were introduced.
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    (Original post by askew116)
    Yes, I am.
    Does this not confilct with what the other student was told about consistency of charge over an agreed period of study. What do the NUS make of this? Do they know. i know it is only a small amount, but it could be the thin end of the wedge.
    It could also affect people who are less likely to want to rack up higher long term charges leading to a higher or longe "graduate tax" at the end ah could be scared into leaving courses.
    BTW I think it is unfair,
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    (Original post by StrangerThings)
    I think education in general is a basic right. There are loans to cover everyone's fees, but not enough to cover living costs and accommodation. That definitely needs reworking. Quite a lot of people will get enough to cover accommodation but then have nothing left to cover living costs. Its such a costly thing. I just think its unfair. There are so many other areas that the government could have chosen to raise money from, yet they chose education. After all, the youth is the future of this country and if the government aren't careful, they won't have enough graduates who are willing to support them.
    That's nothing to do with the current government. All they did was put the tuition fees up, and increased the loan to cover for that. Neither living costs nor the maintenance loan are very different to how they've been over the last ten years, so if it weren't for a shortage in part time jobs today's students wouldn't really be any worse off than their predecessors.
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    (Original post by Comanche13)
    AT an offer holder's day recently we were assured that whatever cost you started at, stayed the same for the whole of the degree, but will wait and see!
    What they mean is you stay on the same fee structure ie if the government decided to put fees up to £20,000 (very unlikely) you'd wouldn't be paying that. What it doesn't mean is that the £9000 fees can't increase with inflation...
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    (Original post by StrangerThings)
    Higher Education shouldn't be a luxury or a privilege, it should be a basic right. It isn't fair that people from lower backgrounds who are more than capable of attending university, and graduating with outstanding grades, should be pushed out of applying to university. Yes there are loans to cover, yes there are grants, but on the other hand there is also a huge fear of placing yourself in that much debt. Its horrendous that we now have to chose between an education and trying to find a job that just isn't there.

    If I hadn't chosen to go to university, what else could I do at the moment in this current economical climate than keep borrowing money off my parents and stay at home? The system is floored and needs reworking.
    If anything it's the students who come from middley backgrounds who are worst off. People at the lower end of the spectrum receive obscene amounts in grant money while people in the middle get the bare minimum as a loan. What would happen if those people's parents said we're not funding their degree? They would be still be assessed by household income even though they would be getting none of it. Everyone should get the same in grant/loan money. Pull out of Afghanistan and start subsidising free higher education!
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    (Original post by Malabarista)
    If anything it's the students who come from middley backgrounds who are worst off. People at the lower end of the spectrum receive obscene amounts in grant money while people in the middle get the bare minimum as a loan. What would happen if those people's parents said we're not funding their degree? They would be still be assessed by household income even though they would be getting none of it. Everyone should get the same in grant/loan money. Pull out of Afghanistan and start subsidising free higher education!
    I would definitely agree with this. I am lucky that my parents have saved up over the years specifically for mine and my brothers university costs, and ask they earn just short of £30,000 a year, so I will still get enough support from my student loan and maintenance grant, but I have friends whose parents will earn just over the limit and will get a lot less.
    Not only that, but those from lower paid family backgrounds get tuition fee cuts from some universities, meaning that they will pay less once they have finished their degree. Surely if they have had the same university degree, and therefore should have similar opportunities once graduated, they should pay the same amount back. For me, in an ideal world everyone would get the same amount of help in terms of loans, and therefore would pay the same amount back once graduated (keeping to the current system of repayments being based on income though).
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    (Original post by Malabarista)
    If anything it's the students who come from middley backgrounds who are worst off. People at the lower end of the spectrum receive obscene amounts in grant money while people in the middle get the bare minimum as a loan. What would happen if those people's parents said we're not funding their degree? They would be still be assessed by household income even though they would be getting none of it. Everyone should get the same in grant/loan money. Pull out of Afghanistan and start subsidising free higher education!
    Trust me, I know that. My parents earn too much for me to access any grants and too little to support me. My loan won't cover my accommodation costs, which is a little unnerving if I'm honest...

    My main worry is that the loans system doesn't work fairly for people stuck in the middle and people from lower backgrounds are put off with fears of debts. Even if it isn't debt, which I fully understand, my main point is that it FEELS like debt to lower backgrounds. It is such a scary thing to take on that much money.
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    (Original post by StrangerThings)
    Trust me, I know that. My parents earn too much for me to access any grants and too little to support me. My loan won't cover my accommodation costs, which is a little unnerving if I'm honest...

    My main worry is that the loans system doesn't work fairly for people stuck in the middle and people from lower backgrounds are put off with fears of debts. Even if it isn't debt, which I fully understand, my main point is that it FEELS like debt to lower backgrounds. It is such a scary thing to take on that much money.
    I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment here. However I think is is not theat people with less money have "lower backgrounds" but that they are more in touch with their own spending. many STILL have no bank accounts- except the receive any benefit and prefer to conduct spending in cash.
    It will feel like debt and very scary to people who have lost jobs etc. They also may not trust GOVT speak and :. believe that it will be reclaimed like other debts despite what govt. says
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    (Original post by Malabarista)
    If anything it's the students who come from middley backgrounds who are worst off. People at the lower end of the spectrum receive obscene amounts in grant money while people in the middle get the bare minimum as a loan. What would happen if those people's parents said we're not funding their degree? They would be still be assessed by household income even though they would be getting none of it. Everyone should get the same in grant/loan money. Pull out of Afghanistan and start subsidising free higher education!
    I agree! my dad earned a good middle class wage last year, but the finance doesn't seem to take into account this year, only previous years.
    my dad has just started his own business and my mum has now started a job on minimum wage, I have a family of 8, 5 of still who live at home. yet the government expect y family to help me through uni because of what they earned in the last financial year!
    I know someone who's both parents work, who is an only child, and they get more finance than me because they're parents aren't together. his parent can easily give him financial help because they have noone else to look after in the household

    they seem to presume things very unfairly


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    (Original post by xoxAngel_Kxox)
    Nobody is priced out, the loan is available for everyone to cover tuition. I hate it when people talk about people not being able to afford to go, because there is so much financial help out there that I just don't believe it. And it's not "debt" as in the traditional sense, if you don't earn enough you don't pay it back, and if you do earn enough then the repayments are reasonable.

    I think calling HE a "basic right" is a bit silly, considering there are so many people in this world who don't even have clean water.
    Completely agree with this.

    Its not debt and I wish it wasn't called debt. Its a graduate tax, only those who go to uni pay it. A much fairer form of taxation just as only those who use the NHS should pay for it, those of us with private health care should get tax breaks. Similarly only those with kids at state schools should pay for that, with tax breaks for the childless/privately schooled kids.

    And as you say if you don't earn enough you don't pay back additionally after 30yrs its wiped off. It always annoys me when people say how much debt they'll be in. Piss off you won't have anyone harassing you for repayments and more then likely you won't pay it all off anyway.

    £9000 is less then my school fees were and its only for 3/4years as opposed to 13.

    Get a grip.

    And the bursaries for the poor are unfair too, they should be awarded on merit as scholarships regardless of parental income.
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    (Original post by StrangerThings)
    Higher Education shouldn't be a luxury or a privilege, it should be a basic right. It isn't fair that people from lower backgrounds who are more than capable of attending university, and graduating with outstanding grades, should be pushed out of applying to university. Yes there are loans to cover, yes there are grants, but on the other hand there is also a huge fear of placing yourself in that much debt. Its horrendous that we now have to chose between an education and trying to find a job that just isn't there.

    If I hadn't chosen to go to university, what else could I do at the moment in this current economical climate than keep borrowing money off my parents and stay at home? The system is floored and needs reworking.
    *flawed, if you can't spell that properly, even if it was a "basic right", in your imaginary world, your poor spelling would probably qualify as a derogation from that right.

    everyone should have the opportunity to go to university, grades permitting, but it isn't some divine right everyone should be entitled to.
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    I do agree that every single person regardless of income should have the right to study from nursery up to PHD, paid for by the system, and if they are good enough. (Here I am calling for introduction of student funding for MA and PHD in the same way as Undergraduate, I am not calling for more places on MA/PHD places).

    But what I would say, is that it still has to be paid for. It does annoy me when people say 'I don't want to take on that much debt', or 'University is too expensive'. No it isn't, the current system works. You go to university, and if you get a job that pays over the threshold of 21k (a job most likely got because of your degree), you pay it back, and if you don't, then you don't owe anything. We Brits should realise how lucky we are to have this system. If you never can afford to pay it back, you never have to, it doesn't mean the government can repossess your house for example. People complaining should research the American system, I've known people's families have to re-mortgage their house, and if they don't get a job within three months of graduating the government can start to take your possessions.

    So to clarify:
    - Current system of 9k a year is fair, pay back when you can.
    - It won't be rising again, and if it does we'll hear about it.
    - Need a similar system for MA/PHD, again, paid back when/if one can afford (which will be close to 100%).
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    (Original post by deanna3006)
    I agree! my dad earned a good middle class wage last year, but the finance doesn't seem to take into account this year, only previous years.
    my dad has just started his own business and my mum has now started a job on minimum wage, I have a family of 8, 5 of still who live at home. yet the government expect y family to help me through uni because of what they earned in the last financial year!
    I know someone who's both parents work, who is an only child, and they get more finance than me because they're parents aren't together. his parent can easily give him financial help because they have noone else to look after in the household

    they seem to presume things very unfairly


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    If your family's income has dropped significantly (by about 20%, but I may be wrong) then you can get this years income taken into account. You would be better off contacting Student Finance about this though, as I know little about it.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    I do agree that every single person regardless of income should have the right to study from nursery up to PHD, paid for by the system, and if they are good enough. (Here I am calling for introduction of student funding for MA and PHD in the same way as Undergraduate, I am not calling for more places on MA/PHD places).

    But what I would say, is that it still has to be paid for. It does annoy me when people say 'I don't want to take on that much debt', or 'University is too expensive'. No it isn't, the current system works. You go to university, and if you get a job that pays over the threshold of 21k (a job most likely got because of your degree), you pay it back, and if you don't, then you don't owe anything. We Brits should realise how lucky we are to have this system. If you never can afford to pay it back, you never have to, it doesn't mean the government can repossess your house for example. People complaining should research the American system, I've known people's families have to re-mortgage their house, and if they don't get a job within three months of graduating the government can start to take your possessions.

    So to clarify:
    - Current system of 9k a year is fair, pay back when you can.
    - It won't be rising again, and if it does we'll hear about it.
    - Need a similar system for MA/PHD, again, paid back when/if one can afford (which will be close to 100%).
    I would agree. Even though I of course would rather that I didn't have to pay any fees, raising them to £9000 did not put me off from applying this year, and I understand why they did increase the fees. More has to be done in schools to emphasise the repayment system.
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    (Original post by StrangerThings)
    Higher Education shouldn't be a luxury or a privilege, it should be a basic right. It isn't fair that people from lower backgrounds who are more than capable of attending university, and graduating with outstanding grades, should be pushed out of applying to university. Yes there are loans to cover, yes there are grants, but on the other hand there is also a huge fear of placing yourself in that much debt. Its horrendous that we now have to chose between an education and trying to find a job that just isn't there.

    If I hadn't chosen to go to university, what else could I do at the moment in this current economical climate than keep borrowing money off my parents and stay at home? The system is floored and needs reworking.
    *Flawed
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    (Original post by xoxAngel_Kxox)
    Nobody is priced out, the loan is available for everyone to cover tuition. I hate it when people talk about people not being able to afford to go, because there is so much financial help out there that I just don't believe it. And it's not "debt" as in the traditional sense, if you don't earn enough you don't pay it back, and if you do earn enough then the repayments are reasonable.

    I think calling HE a "basic right" is a bit silly, considering there are so many people in this world who don't even have clean water.
    Are people really this ignorant? Irrespective of the loaning system and the other meagre tokens put in place, the raising of tuition fees from £3000 to £9000 will categorically affect the poor more than it will the rich. There is no dispute about that. £9000 to someone who doesn't have family members earning that much is gonna be pretty daunting, whilst to a rich person this is less of a big deal.

    Even if the loans are in place, poor people are now even more less likely to attend university, relative to their affluent counterparts. This is unfair, and, as a civilised, 'liberal' society we should hang our heads in shame at this.
 
 
 
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