Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Lefties celebrating Thatcher's death gives her more public sympathy than Tory PR watch

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Let's take their benefits off them.
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    Ahahaaa so many mad lefties, its a win win for the Tories regardless of your silly leftist views
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    Ahahaaa so many mad lefties, its a win win for the Tories regardless of your silly leftist views
    Yep, it seems the death of Thatcher truely can bring joy to all, left or right. :yay:
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JoffreyBaratheon)
    It is quite apparent that the general public sentiment is disgust at people partying or making crass remarks because it is dehumanising, dispassionate, undignified and frankly un-British. Legitimate criticsm is acceptable, but it is quite obvious that gratuitous and mean-spririted celebration is not.

    Do the lefties doing this not realise that they are doing more for the public sympathy of Thatcher and her policies than Tory PR or the right-wing press ever could?

    By provoking digust from the public, these lefties are tarnishing and diverting attention away from their (perhaps legitimate) criticisms and making the public jump to Thatcher's side as a woman who was a mother and grandmother.
    You appear to be using these idiots (as are the right wing press) as part of a general smear against the Left. The fact that they are clearly co-ordinated by extremists (note the SWP posters in the picture) is apparently considered to be irrelevant by OP.

    That said, I do think that we are in the middle of a pre-planned right wing media onslaught designed to revise the Thatcher period, make her a secular saint and diminish the struggles of those who stood up for the parts of the traditional working class that her governments viciously attacked. So maybe the sheer intensity of the media battering is making some people quite angry.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    I hate to make generalisations, but has anybody noticed that the right are the first to scream "it's political correctness gone mad!" when people on the left complain about something people have been saying/doing which they don't like, and then when the case is reversed is just sick lefties with no lives or whatever?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    You appear to be using these idiots (as are the right wing press) as part of a general smear against the Left. The fact that they are clearly co-ordinated by extremists (note the SWP posters in the picture) is apparently considered to be irrelevant by OP.

    That said, I do think that we are in the middle of a pre-planned right wing media onslaught designed to revise the Thatcher period, make her a secular saint and diminish the struggles of those who stood up for the parts of the traditional working class that her governments viciously attacked. So maybe the sheer intensity of the media battering is making some people quite angry.
    There is no need to revise the Thatcher period. If anyone is revising anything it is the left. Neglecting to mention that is was the unions who got her into power because the country was so fed up with their strikes. Neglecting to mention how s*** the country was before she came to power, and neglecting to mention that Labour closed more mines in the 60's under Harold Wilson than she ever did.

    Thatcher would have loved those parties.

    All those lefties dancing in the street tells you better than anything that she won.

    They make themselves look silly but then when you're a Marxist how much sillier can you look.

    Of course, young middle class lefties, dancing in the street, all grow old to become well paid charity bosses or clueless NHS managers and ultra prosperous once they've inherited mommy and daddy's money.
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by marcusfox)
    There is no need to revise the Thatcher period. If anyone is revising anything it is the left. Neglecting to mention that is was the unions who got her into power because the country was so fed up with their strikes. Neglecting to mention how s*** the country was before she came to power, and neglecting to mention that Labour closed more mines in the 60's under Harold Wilson than she ever did.
    The "revision" I mentioned is about the political backdrop to the current government. When Cameron took over the Tory Party, his public pitch was 'detoxification of the brand' and changing from the Nasty Party to the Nicer Party. This carried on to some extent into the general election and the Coalition, at least in some of the public utterances and his general leadership style. Of course, this public presentation has had to gradually give way to the reality of their programme of cuts against the disabled and the working poor, etc.

    The 'purpose' of the revision that the Thatcher funeral hysteria brings up is a big opportunity for Cameron and his pals to get back into the groove they really belong to - single-minded Thatcher worship and a burning desire to reintroduce the hard-boiled Friedmanite Pure Market politics she adored. This has always been the real Dave, George and Boris, but they liked to hide it. Now they no longer need to! What a golden opportunity this represents for them.

    They will be invoking the name of the Blessed Margaret all the way to the next election now and my prediction is that there will be a total abandonment of the last vestiges of the Nice Party pretence.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I hate how people suddenly change their opinions now. She was a vile woman when alive why should I now have sympathy because she is dead?
    It's not about people changing their opinions, it's about people having just a little bit of decency and not openly celebrating the death of another human being.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gallifreyan95)
    No, you see, I was using this thing called 'sarcasm' to attempt to throw humour over a situation which is being thrown out of proportion from all sorts of people. Of course it was a wild over-arching stereotype.

    Identifying yourself as 'left' or 'right' is silly.
    Why can I not think the Economic policy of one party is the way forward, while thinking the approach to Education of another is right?

    People who see themselves as 'belonging' to political parties do as much damage to the political system as the politicians who don't know what they are doing.

    I can but give my apologies if my actions upset yourself.
    If only the people who are dancing on Thatchers grave could see from the same perspective.
    I consider myself a lefty, on foreign, social and economic policy. Not a communist, not a benefit scrounger, simply someone who holds left of centre views.

    It's tiring watching people throw the words 'left-wing' around like it's some sort of insult.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The "revision" I mentioned is about the political backdrop to the current government. When Cameron took over the Tory Party, his public pitch was 'detoxification of the brand' and changing from the Nasty Party to the Nicer Party. This carried on to some extent into the general election and the Coalition, at least in some of the public utterances and his general leadership style. Of course, this public presentation has had to gradually give way to the reality of their programme of cuts against the disabled and the working poor, etc.

    The 'purpose' of the revision that the Thatcher funeral hysteria brings up is a big opportunity for Cameron and his pals to get back into the groove they really belong to - single-minded Thatcher worship and a burning desire to reintroduce the hard-boiled Friedmanite Pure Market politics she adored. This has always been the real Dave, George and Boris, but they liked to hide it. Now they no longer need to! What a golden opportunity this represents for them.

    They will be invoking the name of the Blessed Margaret all the way to the next election now and my prediction is that there will be a total abandonment of the last vestiges of the Nice Party pretence.
    You forgot Tony. And Labour changed nothing of what Thatcher had put in place during that time, and is still in place today, over twenty years later.

    All she did was good enough for Labour to carry on, indeed they swept in to power in 1997 on pretty much Thatcherite policies.

    Which tells you all you needed to know about how in tune he was with the general feeling in the country at the time. Whatever else one can say about her, she was far more worthy of admiration than Blair, a man whose focus has been on feathering his own nest from beginning to end.

    Unfortunately within a decade this party started swinging back to the left, and look what happened. You would have thought that Gordon Brown (PhD History of the Scottish Labour Party) would have learned the lessons from history, Old Labour and the bailout by the IMF in the 70's.

    Unfortunately not.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by smd4std)
    ****ed up to celebrate someones death
    If you understood the depth of the hatred towards Thatcher, especially those in the North, born before 1960, you'd understand why her death has been celebrated.

    She's a hate-figure in the North East. She's credited with doing a lot of damage (rightly or wrongly, that is what is believed).

    People from the South may not be aware of this.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by marcusfox)
    You forgot Tony. And Labour changed nothing of what Thatcher had put in place during that time, and is still in place today, over twenty years later.

    All she did was good enough for Labour to carry on, indeed they swept in to power in 1997 on pretty much Thatcherite policies.

    Which tells you all you needed to know about how in tune he was with the general feeling in the country at the time.

    Unfortunately within a decade this party started swinging back to the left, and look what happened. You would have thought that Gordon Brown (PhD History of the Scottish Labour Party) would have learned the lessons from history, Old Labour and the bailout by the IMF in the 70's.

    Unfortunately not.
    Perhaps I've read your post wrongly, but are you suggesting that Gordon Brown is partially responsible for a global financial collapse that was started with mortgage lending in the US?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ilickbatteries)
    Perhaps I've read your post wrongly, but are you suggesting that Gordon Brown is partially responsible for a global financial collapse that was started with mortgage lending in the US?
    Of course not. But he was certainly partially responsible for what happened in the UK.

    It may suit all popular prejudices to blame stinking rich greedy bankers but there was a very real and far more important political element, political failure, in this financial crisis as well.

    As you have already very aptly asserted, the root of the crisis was good housing debt turning toxic.

    That's what happens when a bunch of idiot US and UK politicians start believing they’ve found the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow in the form of never ending (end to boom an bust) hyper inflating housing markets.

    It should be remembered that the banks that got into most trouble were primarily operating in the mortgage markets alone. Though they almost certainly didn’t realise it, it was the failure to control housing inflation that meant they were being caught between a rock and a hard place.

    It’s at times like this you look for some responsibility from the politicians and their appointed central bank. What we got here in the UK was idiot Brown removing house prices from the inflation calculation.

    He then fell out with the governor of the BoE (because King insisted on telling him what he didn’t want to hear) and then claimed the whole monumentally stupid bonanza could carry on forever because his financial genius had ended boom and bust forever.

    So the banks were left with a choice of either compete (remember illegal not to in a free market) into the inflation with 125% mortgages that relied upon all that inflation continuing or step back from the market which is rather difficult when mortgages are your only business. As we now know, for the likes of B&B and Northern Rock, both options were fan s***ters.

    Interesting that in the aftermath of the crisis one of the first measures that’s been taken is a new BoE committee charged with monitoring inflation in individual sectors of the economy (i.e. property) to ensure it doesn’t happen again.

    So, why is this failure clearly being recognised but hardly being spoken about by the politicians such that popular myth makers like the Daily Express and other media can still get away with the lie that 20% house price inflation is the dog's b*******.

    And oh how the left, with their idiotic prejudice against dirty words like investment, speculation, profit, and prosperity, jumped in feet first to have a go at hedge funds and casino banking - they couldn't wait – and they couldn't have been more wrong. There’s one inconvenient fact here they conveniently ignore, it wasn't casino banking that got the banks into trouble.

    It was the supposed steady eddie stuff (Gordon’s never never land of ever rising house prices and we’ve abolished boom and bust) retail banking, mortgages and property markets that did for the banks.

    Indeed, it was those banks with their casino arms, such as Barclays, that were able to ride out the storm and not resort to taxpayer’s bailouts when their retail divisions went belly up.

    No surprises that the banks that were screwed were those 100% into property and mortgages such as B&B, with their heavy exposure to buy to let, and Northern Rock, with their heavy exposure to easy mortgage money that dried up. We've got a heck of a lot to thank the casino hedge fund speculation bankers because they probably saved the crash from being a whole lot worse.

    Here in the UK, less than a fifth of the national debt is down to the bank bailout. Something all those banker bashers would do well to remember and also to consider what the heck the other four fifths of the debt was spent on.

    I mean at least if Brown had launched a manned mission to Mars we could say well that’s where all our money went.

    As for France and Germany, they don’t do stupid housing markets and, in Germany especially, there is very much a culture of 'not to borrow' that’s why the Germans refer to the crisis as Anglo Saxon (i.e. the idiot British and Yanks).

    Perhaps now, like most of the World, we can go back to selling goods and services as the road to prosperity and Gordon Brown can go back to always losing at Monopoly.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I hate how people suddenly change their opinions now. She was a vile woman when alive why should I now have sympathy because she is dead?
    She was vile because she ended industries which didn't make a profit?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ilickbatteries)
    Perhaps I've read your post wrongly, but are you suggesting that Gordon Brown is partially responsible for a global financial collapse that was started with mortgage lending in the US?
    Are you suggesting the man in charge of our finances for 10 years wasnt responsible for the fact we had no money to invest during a recession?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by billydisco)
    She was vile because she ended industries which didn't make a profit?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
    Thus making millions unemployed and decimating communities.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Thus making millions unemployed and decimating communities.
    When the country is stuck between a rock and a hard place, you have to take the tough decisions for the good of the country as a whole.

    So, you either sit on your arse like Labour did and allow the unions to walk all over you with single issue politics and strikes about this and about that, almost a new one every month in the late 70s, and continue pouring billions of pounds of subsidy money into an unsustainable business, in this case the black hole that was the Coal Board, to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds annually, or a billion and a half in todays money.

    At the end of that, the money runs out, as it will eventually, because there was no way that could continue - that billion and a half was a loss, after the sales of coal had been taken into account - the country is bankrupted, the mines will close anyway and the miners will still have no jobs.

    Or you do what any business owner does when his business becomes unprofitable. It's ****ty for the people who end up losing their jobs, of course, but the alternative in the end is a much worse scenario for ALL concerned.

    It wasn't Thatcher's fault that everyone in those communities left school with no qualifications and were good for no other job than hard labour in the mines. Neither is it her fault that mining was the only industry going on in a particular area, so when that went, those unable to adapt had it worse off.

    But the alternative was far worse for the rest of the country.

    Imagine if Thatcher had never existed? The mines would still have ended up closing, because Thatcher didn't make coal uneconomic to extract, that was the price of globalization and emerging markets abroad, particularly China. They'd still have been out on their ear in the end.

    However, a Labour government would have continued pouring that subsidy money in right up until it had ran out (as they had demonstrated previously before we needed an IMF bailout), money which was much better directed elsewhere.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by marcusfox)
    When the country is stuck between a rock and a hard place, you have to take the tough decisions for the good of the country as a whole.

    So, you either sit on your arse like Labour did and allow the unions to walk all over you with single issue politics and strikes about this and about that, almost a new one every month in the late 70s, and continue pouring billions of pounds of subsidy money into an unsustainable business, in this case the black hole that was the Coal Board, to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds annually, or a billion and a half in todays money.

    At the end of that, the money runs out, as it will eventually, because there was no way that could continue - that billion and a half was a loss, after the sales of coal had been taken into account - the country is bankrupted, the mines will close anyway and the miners will still have no jobs.

    Or you do what any business owner does when his business becomes unprofitable. It's ****ty for the people who end up losing their jobs, of course, but the alternative in the end is a much worse scenario for ALL concerned.

    It wasn't Thatcher's fault that everyone in those communities left school with no qualifications and were good for no other job than hard labour in the mines. Neither is it her fault that mining was the only industry going on in a particular area, so when that went, those unable to adapt had it worse off.

    But the alternative was far worse for the rest of the country.

    Imagine if Thatcher had never existed? The mines would still have ended up closing, because Thatcher didn't make coal uneconomic to extract, that was the price of globalization and emerging markets abroad, particularly China. They'd still have been out on their ear in the end.

    However, a Labour government would have continued pouring that subsidy money in right up until it had ran out (as they had demonstrated previously before we needed an IMF bailout), money which was much better directed elsewhere.
    You're missing the point. Millions unemployed created mass poverty. But what about the poll tax eh? She wanted a mansion owner to pay the same tax as their cleaner!
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You're missing the point. Millions unemployed created mass poverty. But what about the poll tax eh? She wanted a mansion owner to pay the same tax as their cleaner!
    The point? It seems has gone right over your head.

    I just have to laugh at the pictures of the feckless celebrating in todays papers (Independent in case you were wondering). Most of them are in their twenties, thirties at best, and would have been a few years old even when she was leaving power. They have no real experience of Thatcher, only what came after, and what has been indoctrinated into them by their parents...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...n-8566594.html

    Making a stereotypical judgement, it makes you wonder if they are givers or takers...

    22yr old 'Johnny' from Essex, born 1991...

    On a completely different topic, what about the hundreds of thousands of miners forced into redundancy by Wilson when he was closing mines in the 50s and 60s? No comment?

    How about when Labour closed the steel plants in Middlesbrough because (shock horror) it was unprofitable?
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hal.E.Lujah)
    I don't think it will. No matter what happens, there's always going to be that one guy who makes lewd comments, and the media will find them and blow them out of proportion anyway. Celebrating her death on a large scale is the only way we might finally be free to openly discuss that the woman was inept and evil, and make it clear to future generations that kind of leadership won't be made a martyr of or glorified.
    No, it isn't. Are you seriously suggesting that people are forbidden from discussing the bad things she did as PM and only the people with good things to say about her are allowed to speak?

    It's fine to use intelligent political debate, acknowledging her worse decisions as well as her better ones, to evaluate her legacy to the country. But to publicly celebrate the death of an elderly lady does not contribute to the debate at all; it makes the revellers look embittered and stuck in the past if they are old or clueless and indoctrinated if they are young.

    No-one's saying you have to like Thatcher or even be sympathetic now that she's dead, just that you should have the grace and basic human decency to let her family mourn in peace.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: April 10, 2013
Poll
Do you like carrot cake?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.