Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Should Margaret Thatcher get a state funeral? Watch

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    No, instead of a ceremonial funeral costing the taxpayer £8-10m it should be sold off to the lowest private bidder.

    It's what she would of wanted
    • PS Helper
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    PS Helper
    Study Helper
    (Original post by Hilly1)
    As Britain's greatest peacetime leader should she?
    (Original post by Hilly1)
    Ugh. I wish people would be more neautral.

    Not sure if serious... anyway...



    No she obviously shouldn't. Here are the reasons:

    1. Margaret Thatcher herself would argue that she shouldn't have a state funeral. She would bury you in her brutal style of debate as an uninformed idiot.



    2. Her will clearly states that she doesn't want a state funeral, and her family have supported this extensively. It's massively disrespectful to ignore the desires of her family and her last wishes.

    3. She wasn't Britains greatest peacetime leader. Please take a look at this, which is sourced from the official government website and portrayed by the Tory party themselves. Saying she was the greatest peace time prime minister is heavily opinionated and based more on propaganda than factual discourse.

    Name:  541606_318034121656280_499493534_n.jpg
Views: 77
Size:  98.6 KB

    4. The country isn't doing too well at the moment. Having a state funeral for someone who could afford to spend the last year of her life in a penthouse at the Ritz would build massive bad press for the government that sponsored it, and be the equivalent of:

    a) An entire school
    b) A small hospital
    c) 3000 jobs at £30,000 per year.

    5. This drawn out martyr worship that is going to dominate the newspapers for the next month is going to cloak alot of important political debates. It's getting silly now and we're all sick of discussing it.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    It wasn't a war. It was a conflict.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    No.

    A state funeral for her when people in this country are struggling and the cuts are getting deeper?

    This government disgusts me.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Well, I'm defining the working class, as those under unions. Thatcher's well known hatred for the unions meant that alot of the working class were anti-Thatcher, it was the working class who suffered the most.
    Except they don't represent the entirety of the working class. I don't dispute a lot of unions and former unions hate Thatcher, but to attempt to pass them off as the voice of the entire working class is patently false. A lot of working class supported tough action against unions, not to mention reigning in inflation, right-to-buy, lower income tax, easier credit etc.

    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    And I'm referring to the Irish who live in the North of Ireland, in UK territory.
    I don't really care much for a group of people who have no wish to be part of the UK and don't support the British government regardless. I loved how the BBC got Gerry Adams in to run his mouth off about Thatcher, but conveniently forgot to mention that he was a terrorist scumbag who was a senior commander of an organisation that attempted to murder her.
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Except they don't represent the entirety of the working class. I don't dispute a lot of unions and former unions hate Thatcher, but to attempt to pass them off as the voice of the entire working class is patently false. A lot of working class supported tough action against unions, not to mention reigning in inflation, right-to-buy, lower income tax, easier credit etc.



    I don't really care much for a group of people who have no wish to be part of the UK and don't support the British government regardless. I loved how the BBC got Gerry Adams in to run his mouth off about Thatcher, but conveniently forgot to mention that he was a terrorist scumbag who was a senior commander of an organisation that attempted to murder her.
    I'm unsure what qualifies as having a union, but I assume that public sector workers all fell under unions, so public sector workers suffers. If you're telling me that UK at this stage had less public sector workers. So overall the working class supported her (Take away the Falklands issue, alot rallied behind her in support of the Falklands) I say fair do's.

    As for Gerry Adams, at that time, the police and the British army, who were supposed to defend the Catholic communities at that time, conveniently
    1. Went missing during unionist ambushes
    2. Were used to fiercely put down peaceful protesters
    3. Imposed conscription, targetting catholic areas


    All under the NI government, and direct rule by Britain. You could easily argue then by that logic that Thatcher was THE senior commander of the British Army who attempted to murder him.

    Democracy didn't exist during the troubles, politics was failing them, they relied on the IRA to defend them because no one else would. They should never have targeted civilians, or Thatcher, but the idea that Thatcher was clean isn't correct.

    If you really don't care about NI - you could just have given it back to Ireland to be fair.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    'given it back'
    Lol.. We don't hold it like a property. NI wants to remain British.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    I'm unsure what qualifies as having a union, but I assume that public sector workers all fell under unions, so public sector workers suffers. If you're telling me that UK at this stage had less public sector workers. So overall the working class supported her (Take away the Falklands issue, alot rallied behind her in support of the Falklands) I say fair do's.
    The fact that the power of the unions were weakened does not automatically mean the their workers suffer. Militant unions who use their workers as pawns in their attempts to topple the democratically elected government are not an asset. Thatcher brought the Japanese car companies and their deep pockets to the North, not the unions.

    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    As for Gerry Adams, at that time, the police and the British army, who were supposed to defend the Catholic communities at that time, conveniently
    1. Went missing during unionist ambushes
    2. Were used to fiercely put down peaceful protesters
    3. Imposed conscription, targetting catholic areas

    All under the NI government, and direct rule by Britain. You could easily argue then by that logic that Thatcher was THE senior commander of the British Army who attempted to murder him.
    Are you actually comparing Thatcher to Adams? The British government to the IRA? Seriously?

    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Democracy didn't exist during the troubles, politics was failing them, they relied on the IRA to defend them because no one else would. They should never have targeted civilians, or Thatcher, but the idea that Thatcher was clean isn't correct.
    Never said she was clean. What I did say is that the feelings of Irish nationalists on Thatcher aren't really relevant, no more than the feelings of the Argentines. She was a British Prime Minister of the UK.

    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    If you really don't care about NI - you could just have given it back to Ireland to be fair.
    I care for Northern Ireland, the Loyalists and British citizens there. I don't care for IRA scumbags who attempt to murder the democratically elected Prime Minister.
    Northern Ireland was never part of the ROI anyway. You sound like an Argentine talking about the Falklands there.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Izzyeviel)
    Who pays for the ceremonial funeral?
    Presumably not the people she made unemployed since they don't pay any tax.

    If anything, she's probably paid more tax than them, and in fact funded their benefits.

    I suspect that most the people complaining that they don't want their tax money going towards Thatchers funeral have paid very little of it themselves.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    I care for Northern Ireland, the Loyalists and British citizens there. I don't care for IRA scumbags who attempt to murder the democratically elected Prime Minister.
    Northern Ireland was never part of the ROI anyway. You sound like an Argentine talking about the Falklands there.
    Okay this has really pissed me off. You are showing a massive lack of knowledge of Irish History and are getting on my nerves so i'm going to tell you the truth.

    Firstly, only caring for loyalists and 'British' citizens in Northern Ireland is racist and that sort of ignorant right wing view has supposedly not existed since the O'Connell gained Emancipation for Catholics in the early 1800s.

    Secondly, the assertion that Thatcher is a democratically elected Prime Minister for Northern Ireland is misplaced. Not one NI constituency voted for her (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politi...ion/rw1979.htm) and she can therefore not be considered democratically elected by the people of NI (then again neither can Gerry Adams).

    Northern Ireland didn't exist until the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1920 which was based on misplaced numbers and a discriminatory suffrage system at the time in Ireland, where 6 of the 9 counties of Ulster 'voted' to continue being subject to UK law.

    To the assertion that NI was never part of the ROI is nonsense, the British were an imperialistic power which forcefully took over Ireland by military means against the wishes of the vast majority of Irish citizens. In fact, NI is one of the few echoes of an imperialistic Britain.

    So please, shut up about something you know nothing about and clearly don't understand and keep your mid-1960s rhetoric about loyalism and other ancient viewpoints out of this discussion.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    The fact that the power of the unions were weakened does not automatically mean the their workers suffer. Militant unions who use their workers as pawns in their attempts to topple the democratically elected government are not an asset. Thatcher brought the Japanese car companies and their deep pockets to the North, not the unions.



    Are you actually comparing Thatcher to Adams? The British government to the IRA? Seriously?



    Never said she was clean. What I did say is that the feelings of Irish nationalists on Thatcher aren't really relevant, no more than the feelings of the Argentines. She was a British Prime Minister of the UK.



    I care for Northern Ireland, the Loyalists and British citizens there. I don't care for IRA scumbags who attempt to murder the democratically elected Prime Minister.
    Northern Ireland was never part of the ROI anyway. You sound like an Argentine talking about the Falklands there.
    Agreed. Look up on history before you make Historically inaccurate biased comments @thebeardedman
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Felix1944)
    I think Churchill had a state funeral; there was certainly a lying in state in Westminster Hall.
    Yeah, and I think Charles Darwin. Then again, he had an overwhelming impact that was mostly positive, and he wasn't a politician so I don't think it violated political neutrality much.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by conorm11)
    Firstly, only caring for loyalists and 'British' citizens in Northern Ireland is racist and that sort of ignorant right wing view has supposedly not existed since the O'Connell gained Emancipation for Catholics in the early 1800s.
    No, it's really not. Heaven forbids I don't give a toss about people who don't actually even want to be part of my country.

    (Original post by conorm11)
    Secondly, the assertion that Thatcher is a democratically elected Prime Minister for Northern Ireland is misplaced.
    I never said she was the PM for NI. I said she was the PM for the UK which NI is part of.

    (Original post by conorm11)
    Not one NI constituency voted for her (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politi...ion/rw1979.htm) and she can therefore not be considered democratically elected by the people of NI (then again neither can Gerry Adams).
    That's because none of the major UK parties stand in Northern Ireland.

    (Original post by conorm11)
    To the assertion that NI was never part of the ROI is nonsense,
    No, it's not, it's factually correct. Infact Northern Ireland came into existance before the ROI did.

    (Original post by conorm11)
    So please, shut up about something you know nothing about and clearly don't understand and keep your mid-1960s rhetoric about loyalism and other ancient viewpoints out of this discussion.
    Blah blah blah blah blah. Typical leftie, attempting to stifle any views he doesn't agree with.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hilly1)
    It wasn't a war. It was a conflict.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    :lolwut:

    It may not have been anything on the scale of the Second World War, but it was a war none-the-less.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    No, anyone working class, Irish, from the north or not rich. I suspect if you did a poll of Thatcher lovers v haters you might be surprised to see what you get. We are by no means a minority.

    If you want to pay for her funeral, by all means, but doesn't "Sir" Mark Thatcher on his own have a worth of millions? Never mind the Thatcher estate.
    Wat.
    My parents are/were both working class and definitely not rich but they'd never be where they are today without her.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    No, it's not, it's factually correct. Infact Northern Ireland came into existance before the ROI did..
    No, in fact it didn't.

    Eamon de Valera and Sinn Fein declared the Irish Republic in 1918, a whole 2 years and one war of independence before the Treaty went through.

    The Irish Republic existed before the 6 counties of Ulster, at that time part of the aforementioned Irish Republic, were wrestled away from it by the British in 1920.

    And just so you know, it is hypocrisy to say 'blah blah blah' and then say I am trying to not listen to your views. Everything you have said is based on emotive language eg. 'i don't care' 'typical lefty', which while it may make you a decent politician in another life, does not constitute argument.

    Oh and the IRA at their inception were the army for the Irish Republic, fighting for Irish independence, something which i think was justified at the time only to be hijacked in the 1960s by a small group of idioits.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hilly1)
    No. not everyone.
    Left wing minority, uh I think the tax payer is going to pay for her funeral

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    It's a joke, get a sense of humor, not everyone adores thatcher actually I would say more than half the country who were alive at the time hate her.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Socktor)
    :lolwut:

    It may not have been anything on the scale of the Second World War, but it was a war none-the-less.
    There was no declaration of war between Argentina and UK therefore it wasn't a war. O_o

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hilly1)
    As Britain's greatest peacetime leader should she?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Don't you post in the Newcastle United thread? :lolwut:

    If you're a local and supporting a state funeral for her.


    Shameful.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    Only if the same luxury has been afforded to all other deceased PMs, but I suspect that isn't the case.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
    Useful resources
    AtCTs

    Ask the Community Team

    Got a question about the site content or our moderation? Ask here.

    Welcome Lounge

    Welcome Lounge

    We're a friendly bunch. Post here if you're new to TSR.

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.