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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Yes but I bet if you asked the majority of soldiers, they did not choose to fight in Iraq, or agree with the reasons for war. And I'm not saying all muslims hate British troops, I am generally interested in why people hate soldiers in general.
    Why would someone go to war if they don't agree with it? We're not in the 1900s and we don't have conscription anymore.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Interesting point, and quite rightly raised!

    It would be good to hear from a muslim to why this is!
    As an ex-muslim (converted to agnosticism) I know a lot of muslims, and I think it's a little bit exaggerated, there isn't much hate for the troops and a great deal of respect for them in fact, however some muslims in this country are uneducated and can suffer misconceptions of the troops, and some are just pretentious beyond belief so they assume that the troops hate all muslims which of course is completely untrue.
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    (Original post by Dejah Thoris)
    Just because you don't agree with me doesn't make my post any less relevant to the question the OP asked.

    I'm sorry but the general public Muslim or otherwise in the UK doesn't hold our troops in high regard and I can't say I blame them.
    What? People in the UK generally respect our Troops. That's why there are so many charities that support the troops like Help for Heroes and special days especially to celebrate them like Armed Forces Day.
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    The hilariously ironic thing is that Saddam's regime was actually far more secularist than anything that is likely to emerge in the new Iraq. Believe me, the war in Iraq was not hating on muslims, it was a war over politics and oil, and I imagine few muslims mourn the Ba'athist regime.

    Muslims get angry because of the high civilian casualties of both wars. That's the reason an awful lot of non-muslims get angry too. Of course muslims feel a connection to them, though: THEY'RE MUSLIM.

    I'm by no means condoning the acts of Anjem Choudary and his ilk. He is a disgusting man. Nevertheless, the death toll for UK troops in Iraq is 179. The death toll for civilians is estimated to be around 120,000. People hate a war that should never have been fought. With very rare exceptions such as the likes of Choudary, people hate THE WAR. Hating the war is not the same thing as hating the troops.
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    To all those hating on the troops : How would you feel if the British Army didn't exist , and we had no soldiers to defend us ?

    you'd all be crying for the military then when someone decides to invade.
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    (Original post by alexh42)
    Interesting topic. Many Muslims also aren't interested in policts but they only care about the Iraq war and the Afghanistan war.

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    are you kidding? from the Muslims i know they are HUGELY into politics In fact many family get togethers they talk about political stuff.
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    (Original post by Fas)
    To all those hating on the troops : How would you feel if the British Army didn't exist , and we had no soldiers to defend us ?

    you'd all be crying for the military then when someone decides to invade.
    I've not actually seen anyone in this thread properly hate on the troops.

    In any case, our army strength is something around 400,000 - it's not there as an anti-invasion force. Its purpose is currently to fight for whatever our government perceives as British interests abroad. We're really not going to be under any significant threat of invasion any time soon - unless you think we're about to have another Napoleon and France might suddenly fancy their chances?
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    I'm sure they all dont. But many of them seem to.

    The troops are out there fighting terrorist maniacs who want to kill us, and reguarly kill their own people. (Muslims are often biggest victims of Al-Qaeda/Taliban)

    It's obvious to me that they have little affiliation toward the troops, but more toward those countries just because they're Muslim. I do not hear so much complaints of terrorists or Islamists here in Britain compared to complaints about the troops..

    We've seen marches and protest against our troops where they're spat on and called 'baby killers' by 'British' Muslim protesters. Not all soldiers are 'baby killers'. We often hear of 'Western Propaganda' as they claim, (I thought they were Westerners too?) yet we do not hear of the Eastern propaganda against the US, UK, Israel in Islamic nations which is also very strong. The 'baby killer' term is just ridiculous also. Are they angry with the war, or just because they're Muslim countrys? from where I'm standing, it's quite clear who they view as 'their own'.

    Also, why no protests from Muslim troop protesters... whenever Islamist preach hatred against the UK? where are they then? not a word, no reaction, no riots. Are they only willing to challenge our Troops or a Far-Right rally? that's the only time I see them out in the street. :confused: Or maybe, it's just non-muslims who they're willing to challenge. :confused:

    P.S - I disagree with the war on terror.
    I think this is just a rather generalised statement. However, there will be many who agree with you, but there will be those who don't. In my view I think it's just them expressing their views. After all, this is a country that encourages free will.


    Coming back to my point on generalisation, I think there will be many other people of other ethnicities and religions that may also partake in such acts of protest. Quite frankly, war is nothing to be glorified. And as said by previous posters, maybe it's the fact that soldiers 'choose' to sign up to the army, knowing fine well it is their aim to protect the country even by horrific acts (such as killing). But in all honesty, I don't think your statement is correct. We cannot just point to one religion. There are many other religions that most likely do the same.

    i too do not encourage war. However, in today's globalised world and technologically advanced world, I fear that armies are needed for the psychological feeling of 'safety'. I just wish we could all get along, imagine what we could all achieve together! Meh...
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    I've not actually seen anyone in this thread properly hate on the troops.

    In any case, our army strength is something around 400,000 - it's not there as an anti-invasion force. Its purpose is currently to fight for whatever our government perceives as British interests abroad. We're really not going to be under any significant threat of invasion any time soon - unless you think we're about to have another Napoleon and France might suddenly fancy their chances?
    "Just because you don't agree with me doesn't make my post any less relevant to the question the OP asked.

    I'm sorry but the general public Muslim or otherwise in the UK doesn't hold our troops in high regard and I can't say I blame them. "

    ^ this was posted on page 1 of this thread by a Dejah Thoris - so i was mainly in response to him , not sure why i didn't quote him now :rolleyes:

    I'm not saying that Britain is under any threat of invasion at the moment - i was more referring to the whole ideology that ' soldiers are bad ' and the criticism of soliders , and basically saying that in general if we didn't have an army whatsoever and hypothetically if someone were to invade then not having an army would be disastrous , best to be safe than sorry. Maybe so , it's not an anti-invasion force , but atleast it would still give us a chance to defend against a hypothetical invasion instead of leaving us with practically no chance at all.
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    (Original post by TheStudent1289)
    I think this is just a rather generalised statement. However, there will be many who agree with you, but there will be those who don't. In my view I think it's just them expressing their views. After all, this is a country that encourages free will.


    Coming back to my point on generalisation, I think there will be many other people of other ethnicities and religions that may also partake in such acts of protest. Quite frankly, war is nothing to be glorified. And as said by previous posters, maybe it's the fact that soldiers 'choose' to sign up to the army, knowing fine well it is their aim to protect the country even by horrific acts (such as killing). But in all honesty, I don't think your statement is correct. We cannot just point to one religion. There are many other religions that most likely do the same.

    i too do not encourage war. However, in today's globalised world and technologically advanced world, I fear that armies are needed for the psychological feeling of 'safety'. I just wish we could all get along, imagine what we could all achieve together! Meh...
    Tbh. A lot of British people are racially unaware people. The hatred and dislike toward our troops is very, very strong. You also have not mentioned my point refraining to the lack of vocal action toward Extremists on our streets from Muslims.

    I rarely see any Muslims on remembrance day either. We saw little to no reaction from Muslims during the poppy burning either. If that was a Qu'ran, the reaction would have been different I believe...Even the death of Bin Laden had more vocal outrage in the UK with protests.
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    (Original post by Dejah Thoris)
    Nor does the general population.

    Also the fact that you're systematically exterminating their people isn't helping the troop's popularity.
    'their people'.

    I thought we were 'their people????'
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    I'm sure they all dont. But many of them seem to.

    The troops are out there fighting terrorist maniacs who want to kill us, and reguarly kill their own people. (Muslims are often biggest victims of Al-Qaeda/Taliban)

    It's obvious to me that they have little affiliation toward the troops, but more toward those countries just because they're Muslim. I do not hear so much complaints of terrorists or Islamists here in Britain compared to complaints about the troops..

    We've seen marches and protest against our troops where they're spat on and called 'baby killers' by 'British' Muslim protesters. Not all soldiers are 'baby killers'. We often hear of 'Western Propaganda' as they claim, (I thought they were Westerners too?) yet we do not hear of the Eastern propaganda against the US, UK, Israel in Islamic nations which is also very strong. The 'baby killer' term is just ridiculous also. Are they angry with the war, or just because they're Muslim countrys? from where I'm standing, it's quite clear who they view as 'their own'.

    Also, why no protests from Muslim troop protesters... whenever Islamist preach hatred against the UK? where are they then? not a word, no reaction, no riots. Are they only willing to challenge our Troops or a Far-Right rally? that's the only time I see them out in the street. :confused: Or maybe, it's just non-muslims who they're willing to challenge. :confused:

    P.S - I disagree with the war on terror.
    The majority of Muslims don't hate british troops. If the media zooms in on the minute numbers of people who do try and promote hatred, it causes 2 problems:
    1. People assume that these people represent any significant amount of Muslims - they don't.
    2. It promotes an identity crisis for the young Muslims who then need to be made aware that these people being given a platform and coverage, are not there as an example for them.

    As for those preaching hatred in communities, mosques across the country are always throwing people out for preaching extremist views. The imams and even the local community members at the mosque recognise when someone is teaching something vile, and they don't like it any more than any British christians or those of other faiths.
    There's no press for mosques getting rid of extremist preachers, probably because it's hard to understand it's an issue when you aren't in the mosque. I've specifically witnessed my arabic teacher call the police because we had someone from abroad at our mosque trying to talk to us (ages 13-14, so about 2003/4). Our teacher then cancelled class and instead gave us all a lecture on being vigilant and aware of people who try and draw young people to political causes under the cover of religion.

    The fact is, it's a huge issue for British Muslims as well as everyone else, because we don't want our younger generations being indoctrinated by some external extreme influence.

    'Muslims' don't hate our troops. As the person who linked above, the numbers of Muslim troops is actually rising year on year. Personally, I joined the air training corp when I was younger because I had great respect for the troops and what they do.

    As for these banner wielding 'muslims', preaching hatred, disrespecting the dead, causing mischief - these are all not allowed by religion. They're as uneducated in their faith as the KKK were, and equally unrepresentative of it.

    When it comes to 'Islamic' nations, there isn't a single state where they actually practice law fully in accordance with religion. Their politics are as skewed as any state. Just because we're muslim, doesn't mean we bow down or agree to another country/nation just because they say they're muslim.
    The UK is a Christian country, but the christians of the world have no obligation to defend or justify it's actions. It's the same principle.
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    I'm sure they all dont. But many of them seem to.

    The troops are out there fighting terrorist maniacs who want to kill us, and reguarly kill their own people. (Muslims are often biggest victims of Al-Qaeda/Taliban)

    It's obvious to me that they have little affiliation toward the troops, but more toward those countries just because they're Muslim. I do not hear so much complaints of terrorists or Islamists here in Britain compared to complaints about the troops..

    We've seen marches and protest against our troops where they're spat on and called 'baby killers' by 'British' Muslim protesters. Not all soldiers are 'baby killers'. We often hear of 'Western Propaganda' as they claim, (I thought they were Westerners too?) yet we do not hear of the Eastern propaganda against the US, UK, Israel in Islamic nations which is also very strong. The 'baby killer' term is just ridiculous also. Are they angry with the war, or just because they're Muslim countrys? from where I'm standing, it's quite clear who they view as 'their own'.

    Also, why no protests from Muslim troop protesters... whenever Islamist preach hatred against the UK? where are they then? not a word, no reaction, no riots. Are they only willing to challenge our Troops or a Far-Right rally? that's the only time I see them out in the street. :confused: Or maybe, it's just non-muslims who they're willing to challenge. :confused:

    P.S - I disagree with the war on terror.

    Edit: I also see a lot more complaints about the war in Iraq etc. then the likes of Anjem Choudhry. Why is nobody protesting him? Why was there a stronger reaction to Bin Laden's killing then the poppy burning?
    the fact you later said "im sure not all do" doesnt negate the fact you opened with "why do all UK muslims..." . Im sure as many white british people hate ur troops as well. Not that they should or shouldnt; its good that people are allowed to think and say what they want. i think burning poppies is bad but i would be happy to fight for the right for others to do it they wanted to.
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    (Original post by bcloxford)
    the fact you later said "im sure not all do" doesnt negate the fact you opened with "why do all UK muslims..." . Im sure as many white british people hate ur troops as well. Not that they should or shouldnt; its good that people are allowed to think and say what they want. i think burning poppies is bad but i would be happy to fight for the right for others to do it they wanted to.
    English people don't hate the troops...only the loony, self-loathing Liberals do. We also do not have many Muslim turning up to cheer the troops home whenever they return.
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    The ummah has something to do with it.
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    (Original post by Fas)
    "Just because you don't agree with me doesn't make my post any less relevant to the question the OP asked.

    I'm sorry but the general public Muslim or otherwise in the UK doesn't hold our troops in high regard and I can't say I blame them. "

    ^ this was posted on page 1 of this thread by a Dejah Thoris - so i was mainly in response to him , not sure why i didn't quote him now :rolleyes:

    I'm not saying that Britain is under any threat of invasion at the moment - i was more referring to the whole ideology that ' soldiers are bad ' and the criticism of soliders , and basically saying that in general if we didn't have an army whatsoever and hypothetically if someone were to invade then not having an army would be disastrous , best to be safe than sorry. Maybe so , it's not an anti-invasion force , but atleast it would still give us a chance to defend against a hypothetical invasion instead of leaving us with practically no chance at all.
    Not holding something in high regard is a very different thing to hating something. I don't hold your opinions in high regard. That doesn't mean I hate them.

    The 'hypothetical scenario' is all well and good, but we're not really in a scenario where this hypothesis is likely to actually happen, which rather undermines the point. We really don't have a great deal of need for a powerful armed force for any purpose except this apparent need to maintain Britain's status as a 'world power'. Plenty of other European nations are managing fine without substantial armed forces.
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    English people don't hate the troops...only the loony, self-loathing Liberals do. We also do not have many Muslim turning up to cheer the troops home whenever they return.
    Im pretty sure you get English "loony liberals". Another thing to take into account is that only 1% of the population is Muslim, and they mainly live in certain areas so you arent going to get "loads" turning up to anything are you (apart from a mosque)

    Also just because someone doesnt go to cheer on troops, doesnt mean they "hate them". Ive never been to cheer on troops and I worked at RAFC Cranwell for a bit so im not exactly anti-troops.


    And to be honest, you can support troops without supporting the war.
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    English people don't hate the troops...only the loony, self-loathing Liberals do. We also do not have many Muslim turning up to cheer the troops home whenever they return.
    My apologies, I didn't realise coming out to cheer our troops was now mandatory. Would you like a performance like this one? The North Koreans sure seem to be good at it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pict...m-il-Sung.html
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    My apologies, I didn't realise coming out to cheer our troops was now mandatory. Would you like a performance like this one?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pict...m-il-Sung.html
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw6hmSeTNXY

    I didn't say it was. If you read my post i'm making examples.

    Btw, Is it mandatory for UK Muslims to celebrate Pakistani Independence day in London, Green Street?

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    (Original post by halbeth)
    The hilariously ironic thing is that Saddam's regime was actually far more secularist than anything that is likely to emerge in the new Iraq. Believe me, the war in Iraq was not hating on muslims, it was a war over politics and oil, and I imagine few muslims mourn the Ba'athist regime.

    Muslims get angry because of the high civilian casualties of both wars. That's the reason an awful lot of non-muslims get angry too. Of course muslims feel a connection to them, though: THEY'RE MUSLIM.

    I'm by no means condoning the acts of Anjem Choudary and his ilk. He is a disgusting man. Nevertheless, the death toll for UK troops in Iraq is 179. The death toll for civilians is estimated to be around 120,000. People hate a war that should never have been fought. With very rare exceptions such as the likes of Choudary, people hate THE WAR. Hating the war is not the same thing as hating the troops.
    Great post.

    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    Tbh. A lot of British people are racially unaware people. The hatred and dislike toward our troops is very, very strong. You also have not mentioned my point refraining to the lack of vocal action toward Extremists on our streets from Muslims.

    I rarely see any Muslims on remembrance day either. We saw little to no reaction from Muslims during the poppy burning either. If that was a Qu'ran, the reaction would have been different I believe...Even the death of Bin Laden had more vocal outrage in the UK with protests.
    What are you basing this notion that hatred toward the troops is very very strong on? The fact is there's more educating of young people against extremism and how to identify it. There's community action from mosques working with the police. There's active action taken against people preaching hatred under the guise of Islam.

    What action would you like to see? I don't believe that the minute numbers of people preaching hatred should be given a platform or the attention that they want. There's no negotiating with people with extreme views, and extreme views are not limited to Islam.

    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    I rarely see any Muslims on remembrance day either.
    Where do you want to see them? Muslims in politics (MPs and councillors) are not invisible, and they wear the poppy just like their colleagues. Are you saying they should go over and beyond what everyone else does, just to prove that they care more than everyone else?

    There's a WW1/2 memorial in France where you will see literally hundreds of gravestones carved with the names of Muslim soldiers who fought as Allies. There's also a huge number of Muslims who died in other regions of the world in WW2 in support of Britain. WW2 was not just a war for Europe or Christianity. Muslims have as much to remember on Remembrance Day as anyone else. Do you remember those troops as well as the British? My grandfather was delivering supplies to the Allied troops across Europe via ships. Muslims do not hate our troops, they have in fact a long history of supporting them.

    I can find someone to lay out a lecture or sermon against extremism in all it's form if you can find me a platform on the BBC to do so?
 
 
 
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