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    A list I compiled a while back, probably needs some updates, any more positives to add from the Labour supporters here?

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    Vote Labour for more EU and more uncontrolled immigration.

    Vote Labour for mass unemployment.

    Vote Labour for wasting 12 billion pounds of taxpayers' money on an NHS computer system, which was scrapped.

    Vote Labour for hate-crime legislation and thought control.

    Vote Labour if you believe in creating a false impression of a booming economy, which is based on credit and debt and the creation of bubbles - which inevitably burst.

    Vote Labour if you believe in sending as many people as possible to university, thus devaluing university degrees and creating the best-educated unemployed in the world.

    Vote Labour for intrusive CCTV cameras.

    Vote Labour for Sharia Law.

    Vote Labour for illegal wars.

    Vote Labour for tuition fees.

    Vote Labour if you think our education system should be dumbed down.

    Vote Labour if you like selling the country's gold at rock-bottom price, whilst announcing in advance that you plan to do so.

    Vote Labour to become a second class citizen in your own country.

    Vote Labour if you are anti-meritocracy and feel jealous of successful people.

    Vote Labour if you believe everyone should be poor because you are, too

    Vote Labour if you want to imprison people for telling 'racist' jokes.

    Vote Labour if you think the State should own your children.

    Vote Labour if you agree with spending millions of pounds of taxpayers' money on patronising public information campaigns, telling everyone what we already know - that we should eat fruit and veg.

    Vote Labour if you don't think health and safety regulation has gone too far.

    Vote Labour if you believe appearing non-racist is the most important thing in the world.

    Vote Labour if you want all kids to get grade As in all their exams, even if you have to let them cheat or award them inflated grades.

    Vote Labour if you think it's intelligent to put financial and bureaucratic obstacles in the way of business.

    Vote Labour if the fall of the Soviet Union broke your heart.

    Vote Labour if you are anti-white.

    Vote Labour for more mosques.

    Vote Labour if you like to waste taxpayers' money.

    Vote Labour if you believe that all must win prizes.

    Vote Labour if you like to rage about Thatcher deindustrialising the UK, while conveniently ignoring the fact that manufacturing declined 3 times more under New Labour.

    Vote Labour if you like the government lecturing you constantly on what you should eat and drink.

    Vote Labour if your parents did and you have been brainwashed to do so, because you've been told Labour are for the working-class.

    Vote Labour if you think watching pay-per-view porn on the public purse is acceptable.

    Vote Labour if you believe in chaos.

    Vote Labour if you have been trained to do so.

    Vote Labour if you think the TV licence is 'good value for money'.

    Vote Labour if you think the BBC don't have a political agenda.

    Vote Labour if you want crippling carbon taxes added to your monthly gas/electric bills.

    Vote Labour if you hate rich Tories but have no problem with rich Labour MPs who drink champagne and eat lobster, too.
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    If it wasn't for Labour we would not have the welfare state we have today; no NHS, no job-seekers allowance, no disability benefits and no minimum wage. Although I wouldn't go as far to say I'm a Labour supporter I hold them in high regard for bringing in things which a lot of us just take for advantage.
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    (Original post by thesabbath)
    ...
    Awesome!

    Their list of 'achievements' is endless.

    I'm consumed by white-guilt and ashamed of our colonial heritage. That's why I'll be voting Labour in 2015!
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    (Original post by thesabbath)
    A list I compiled a while back, probably needs some updates, any more positives to add from the Labour supporters here?

    =======

    Vote Labour for more EU and more uncontrolled immigration. So long as they work what's the problem
    Vote Labour for mass unemployment.
    It's not like we have that now or anything.....
    Vote Labour for wasting 12 billion pounds of taxpayers' money on an NHS computer system, which was scrapped.

    Vote Labour for hate-crime legislation and thought control.
    Obviously hate crime legislation is a good thing, and not really sure how they plan to control thoughts?

    Vote Labour if you believe in creating a false impression of a booming economy, which is based on credit and debt and the creation of bubbles - which inevitably burst.
    There's evidence for it.

    Vote Labour if you believe in sending as many people as possible to university, thus devaluing university degrees and creating the best-educated unemployed in the world
    Agree with you.

    Vote Labour for intrusive CCTV cameras.
    There's nothing wrong with CCTV in public places.

    Vote Labour for Sharia Law.
    Point to me where in their manifesto this is?

    Vote Labour for illegal wars.
    He made a decision, it might have been the wrong one but he made it. That's better than pissing about for how long.

    Vote Labour for tuition fees
    It's not like they've just been tripled

    Vote Labour if you think our education system should be dumbed down.
    Expand.

    Vote Labour if you like selling the country's gold at rock-bottom price, whilst announcing in advance that you plan to do so.
    Can't comment.

    Vote Labour to become a second class citizen in your own country.
    Right wing rhetoric.

    Vote Labour if you are anti-meritocracy and feel jealous of successful people
    Vote Labour if you genuinely wish to help those people who are struggling

    Vote Labour if you believe everyone should be poor because you are, too
    I'm not poor and I support Labour

    Vote Labour if you want to imprison people for telling 'racist' jokes
    Labour are not against free speech

    Vote Labour if you think the State should own your children.
    Sounds like more propaganda

    Vote Labour if you agree with spending millions of pounds of taxpayers' money on patronising public information campaigns, telling everyone what we already know - that we should eat fruit and veg
    Public health campaigns are beneficial to certain groups in society

    Vote Labour if you don't think health and safety regulation has gone too far.
    I agree health and safety is a piss take

    Vote Labour if you believe appearing non-racist is the most important thing in the world.
    More propaganda

    Vote Labour if you want all kids to get grade As in all their exams, even if you have to let them cheat or award them inflated grades.
    Again

    Vote Labour if you think it's intelligent to put financial and bureaucratic obstacles in the way of business.
    Business needs to be ethical

    Vote Labour if the fall of the Soviet Union broke your heart.
    Again with the stupid propaganda

    Vote Labour if you are anti-white.
    And again

    Vote Labour for more mosques.
    What's the problem?

    Vote Labour if you like to waste taxpayers' money.
    Wasting is subjective

    Vote Labour if you believe that all must win prizes.
    What? Care to explain?

    Vote Labour if you like to rage about Thatcher deindustrialising the UK, while conveniently ignoring the fact that manufacturing declined 3 times more under New Labour.
    I don't

    Vote Labour if you like the government lecturing you constantly on what you should eat and drink.
    Public health campaigns are helpful for some people, if you don't like them don't pay any attention to them it's pretty easy


    Vote Labour if your parents did and you have been brainwashed to do so, because you've been told Labour are for the working-class.
    My dad's a tory. I can think for myself thanks

    Vote Labour if you think watching pay-per-view porn on the public purse is acceptable.
    Because that defines the whole of the party. Of course

    Vote Labour if you believe in chaos.

    Vote Labour if you have been trained to do so.

    Vote Labour if you think the TV licence is 'good value for money'.

    Vote Labour if you think the BBC don't have a political agenda.

    Vote Labour if you want crippling carbon taxes added to your monthly gas/electric bills.

    Vote Labour if you hate rich Tories but have no problem with rich Labour MPs who drink champagne and eat lobster, too.
    I've responded to most of your points.
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    (Original post by Barksy)
    1) They don't understand economics
    I don't understand why people who don't understand economics say that others don't understand economics. Really, the best we can all say (with a few exceptions), is that none of us really understand economics. We could all be wrong about what we believe to be true because our level of ignorance is high. You happen to find one argument persuasive and others find another argument persuasive. That's all.
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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    I don't understand why people who don't understand economics say that others don't understand economics. Really, the best we can all say (with a few exceptions), is that none of us really understand economics. We could all be wrong about what we believe to be true because our level of ignorance is high. You happen to find one argument persuasive and others find another argument persuasive. That's all.
    The Labour 'types' who want to tax the rich 90%, want the government to run everything and are sympathetic to communism do not have an understanding in economics. Don't try and pretend they do. There are disagreements within the field, but some things are clear.
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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    I don't understand why people who don't understand economics say that others don't understand economics. Really, the best we can all say (with a few exceptions), is that none of us really understand economics. We could all be wrong about what we believe to be true because our level of ignorance is high. You happen to find one argument persuasive and others find another argument persuasive. That's all.
    You don't need a degree from the LSE to get to grips with the fundamentals. A bit of common sense will suffice.

    Is it ok to force money out of people at gunpoint? Absolutely not. Yet this is the model the state uses to generate the revenue it needs to function. Is taxation (even if it's for the 'common good') inflationary and economically damaging? Yes. It's almost universally agreed that taxation acts as a dead weight cost upon business.

    The left don't understand economics because they prefer utopian dogma to economic reality. This is why they consistently get it horribly wrong wherever they get into power.
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    'Being Northern' is not a valid reason for supporting Labour. I live in the North in one of the safest Tory seats & am a Tory boy myself. Think again guys.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    You don't need a degree from the LSE to get to grips with the fundamentals. A bit of common sense will suffice.

    Is it ok to force money out of people at gunpoint? Absolutely not. Yet this is the model the state uses to generate the revenue it needs to function. Is taxation (even if it's for the 'common good') inflationary and economically damaging? Yes. It's almost universally agreed that taxation acts as a dead weight cost upon business.

    The left don't understand economics because they prefer utopian dogma to economic reality. This is why they consistently get it horribly wrong wherever they get into power.
    There is more to economics than the Austrian school, who have been repeatedly discredited. The idea that tax is theft is tosh, for obvious reasons. Just study some proper Keynes (not the vulgar Keynesianism many subscribe to) or some of the neo-Marxians to get some idea of things, and don't you dare chastise people for "not knowing about economics" when you evidently have little idea about a single faction of thought and nothing else. That's like someone saying "Oh, people have no idea about medicine, all you need is some basic common sense principles. The same thing that causes something should also be able to cure it, right? Just if it's not in deadly doses, so very very diluted. Like when someone takes small doses of poison so their body is used to it so that they can't be poisoned" therefore justifies homeopathy. It doesn't, as an argument it can be summed up simply and monosyllabically as tosh.
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    (Original post by ApresAlkan)
    There is more to economics than the Austrian school, who have been repeatedly discredited. The idea that tax is theft is tosh, for obvious reasons. Just study some proper Keynes (not the vulgar Keynesianism many subscribe to) or some of the neo-Marxians to get some idea of things, and don't you dare chastise people for "not knowing about economics" when you evidently have little idea about a single faction of thought and nothing else. That's like someone saying "Oh, people have no idea about medicine, all you need is some basic common sense principles. The same thing that causes something should also be able to cure it, right? Just if it's not in deadly doses, so very very diluted. Like when someone takes small doses of poison so their body is used to it so that they can't be poisoned" therefore justifies homeopathy. It doesn't, as an argument it can be summed up simply and monosyllabically as tosh.
    Taxation is theft. You don't choose to pay it you're forced to.

    This is why the left cannot be trusted with the economy, their ideology is far more important to them than objective reality.

    Your argument is complete and utter codswallop. Take the blinkers off.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Taxation is theft. You don't choose to pay it you're forced to.

    This is why the left cannot be trusted with the economy, their ideology is far more important to them than objective reality.

    Your argument is complete and utter codswallop. Take the blinkers off.
    Sorry but helping the vulnerable in society is far more important than someone wealthy enough to be taxed *****ing about theft.
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    Sorry but helping the vulnerable in society is far more important than someone wealthy enough to be taxed *****ing about theft.
    Normative statements like this don't address the point though. Using your logic, if I stole £50 at gunpoint from a rich person and then redistributed to a beggar my actions couldn't be described as theft because of the moral outcome.

    Is this what you're saying?
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Normative statements like this don't address the point though. Using your logic, if I stole £50 at gunpoint from a rich person and then redistributed to a beggar my actions couldn't be described as theft because of the moral outcome.

    Is this what you're saying?
    It depends. If there was no welfare state then yes I would say the actions are justified. If there is a welfare state then obviously it's unacceptable.
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    It depends. If there was no welfare state then yes I would say the actions are justified. If there is a welfare state then obviously it's unacceptable.
    Eh? So you agree that it's unacceptable to act like this but when the state does it in the name of welfare it suddenly becomes ok?

    I think your moral compass is on the blink.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Eh? So you agree that it's unacceptable to act like this but when the state does it in the name of welfare it suddenly becomes ok?

    I think your moral compass is on the blink.
    I think it is okay to have a system in place which ensures there is a basic standard of living for all. I'd rather have the state do it than vigilantes because you can at least regulate it.
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    I think it is okay to have a system in place which ensures there is a basic standard of living for all. I'd rather have the state do it than vigilantes because you can at least regulate it.
    But you recognise that in principle its the exact same thing, right?

    The state may comouflage its theft with paperwork and officialdom but it's still extracting money from the population at gunpoint.

    We cannot begin to comprehend the economy until we're fully at ease with the principles that govern it. Taxation may help the poor and vulnerable and be essential in the provision of public infrastructure, but it still contains an element of coercion. We're only lying to ourselves if we think otherwise.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    But you recognise that in principle is the exact same thing, right?

    The state may comouflage its theft with paperwork and officialdom but it's still extracting money from the population at gunpoint.

    We cannot begin to comprehend the economy until we're fully at ease with the principles that govern it. Taxation may help the poor and vulnerable and be essential in the provision of public infrastructure, but it still contains an element of coercion. We're only lying to ourselves if we think otherwise.
    Oh no I accept that, but I believe it's necessary. However I don't think it's quite the same as people do not often become rich by themselves. I'm not devaluing anyone's work here, but often it's a combination of the individual and the other, 'unsung heros' if you will, who do the necessary jobs but no one ever gives them due credit for it. Often these people make massively less money yet help create masses of wealth.
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    Oh no I accept that, but I believe it's necessary. However I don't think it's quite the same as people do not often become rich by themselves. I'm not devaluing anyone's work here, but often it's a combination of the individual and the other, 'unsung heros' if you will, who do the necessary jobs but no one ever gives them due credit for it. Often these people make massively less money yet help create masses of wealth.
    Ironically though the welfare state exacerbates this problem far too often. Take the A4E welfare to work scandle for example. Emma Harrison the Chairman and Founder of A4E used her position to milk the taxpayer to the tune of £ms through lucrative welfare-related gov't contracts. This wasn't a fluke, it's a natural byproduct of a society that abides by corrupt first principles.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Ironically though the welfare state exacerbates this problem far too often. Take the A4E welfare to work scandle for example. Emma Harrison the Chairman and Founder of A4E used her position to milk the taxpayer to the tune of £ms through lucrative welfare-related gov't contracts. This wasn't a fluke, it's a natural byproduct of a society that abides by corrupt first principles.
    I don't know about that specific case, but you're always going to get a few piss takers. It's not the majority though. I'd rather a few idiots get paid for nothing and the most vulnerable be looked after though than the other option of punishing those who need help because of aformentioned idiots.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Taxation is theft. You don't choose to pay it you're forced to.

    This is why the left cannot be trusted with the economy, their ideology is far more important to them than objective reality.

    Your argument is complete and utter codswallop. Take the blinkers off.
    http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Docume...Legitimacy.pdf
 
 
 
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