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How feminism has destroyed Western civilisation Watch

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    (Original post by Rosasaurr)
    stuff like overwhelming physical evidence? I remember reading something on it but I can remember where... like a judge said how the person is guilty, but you place doubt on the character of the woman and they can walk free.
    The nature of the crime can make a lot of convictions difficult. You can't be in doubt to convict. This is something you can't get rid of, or we'll end up with thousands of innocents in prison. It's difficult to hear, but it's the truth.
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    (Original post by james22)
    You need more than evidence that they had sex. you need evidence that it was forced. There was not sufficiant evidence of this so the accused were not found guilty. Remember they need to be found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.
    i.e. bruising?? and that's my point - beyond all reasonable doubt - if she was raped and you place the slightest doubt upon her character, there is reasonable doubt to assume she wasn't raped; even if she was. Because if you manage to paint her as a whore to the jury, they are going to be a lot less sympathetic.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Where are you getting the stats from, out of interest? A lot of stats surrounding rape/sexual abuse are open to a lot of fiddling.
    You might even have seen this, it went pretty viral - from the Enliven project. Of course, everything is an estimate - it has to be, with sexual assault figures. I think the Independant had quite a good one actually as well.

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    (Original post by Ultimate1)
    Not it's because feminists have been able to get a system into place which severely disadvantages the accused. In no other crime are you already on the back foot as soon as someone accuses you.
    Pfft, I think you're forgetting pedophilia. Even completely nonsensical unfounded rumours about that can ruin lives. Not sure how or where we could begin to tackle that.

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    (Original post by Rosasaurr)
    i.e. bruising?? and that's my point - beyond all reasonable doubt - if she was raped and you place the slightest doubt upon her character, there is reasonable doubt to assume she wasn't raped; even if she was. Because if you manage to paint her as a whore to the jury, they are going to be a lot less sympathetic.
    It is irrelivent whether whe was or not, what matters is what the evidence says and since they were not found guilty the evidence wasn't enough. Without having the entire court transcript and all the evidence (which you won't get from the media) you cannot possibly say that there was overwhelming evidence against them. If the defence placed doubt in the juries mind about the victims testimony, and the jury felt that was enough doubt to not convict then they have done their job.

    Remember that people have been given life sentences on overwelming physical evidence then later released because it was found they were actually innocent.
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    (Original post by Ultimate1)
    Don't think so. Of the scarce amount of studies done, a significant amount of rape accusations have turned out to be false. Some studies there has been upwards of 45% of accusations turning out to be false. Certainly there needs to be much more investigated into this matter.
    It's possible that the victims were sexually assaulted but not raped(which is quite a possibility), but still, even then they still are victims, false accusations of sexual crimes are quite rare, the problem is that in the court rooms for sexual assault it's like an interrogation, victims of sexual crimes have been known to commit suicide quite a lot due to the stress of the legal system.
    Although obviously, innocent until proven guilty needs to remain.

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    (Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons)
    You might even have seen this, it went pretty viral - from the Enliven project. Of course, everything is an estimate - it has to be, with sexual assault figures. I think the Independant had quite a good one actually as well.

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    That is still a scarily high number of false accusations compared to convictions. It seems to suggest that more than 1/10 accusations are false (if we discount the others was we know nothing about them).
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    (Original post by james22)
    That is still a scarily high number of false accusations compared to convictions. It seems to suggest that more than 1/10 accusations are false (if we discount the others was we know nothing about them).
    No it doesn't, because you can't discount all those other accusations. You can't keep the stats you like and ignore the others.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Where are you getting the stats from, out of interest? A lot of stats surrounding rape/sexual abuse are open to a lot of fiddling.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...se-accusations

    In a 17 month period there were 35 prosecutions for false accusations vs 5,651 prosecutions for rape. That's just the raw numbers of prosecutions, not really much room for fiddling. False claims really aren't a big problem in our society and trying to make it into a huge deal in order to take a cheap shot at feminism is dangerous and ignorant.
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    (Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons)
    No it doesn't, because you can't discount all those other accusations. You can't keep the stats you like and ignore the others.
    Then we do the only thing we really can and extrapolate the know cases to the unknown ones. It still keeps the ratio the same.
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    (Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons)
    You might even have seen this, it went pretty viral - from the Enliven project. Of course, everything is an estimate - it has to be, with sexual assault figures. I think the Independant had quite a good one actually as well.

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    Those stats really aren't good enough though, do you have any studies or know where I could find any. Because the last set I looked at had similar figures, they were on a Feminist blog. They assumed every person reported of Rape was guilty of Rape, labelled them 'rapists' and only included convictions for false allegations as 'false accusations.' And then there's the chronic under-reporting, so they times'd the 'rapists' figure by ten. There was really no sound methodology, of course I understand it's difficult to find figures for such things properly, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't at least be some effort to have a sound methodology.
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    (Original post by james22)
    Then we do the only thing we really can and extrapolate the know cases to the unknown ones. It still keeps the ratio the same.
    I'm not here to examine the data. Believe me, I already have - I did a huge extended project on bloody rape and court cases.

    The only reason I posted that infographic was so Steevee could see where I'd gotten my estimates from.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...se-accusations

    In a 17 month period there were 35 prosecutions for false accusations vs 5,651 prosecutions for rape. That's just the raw numbers of prosecutions, not really much room for fiddling. False claims really aren't a big problem in our society and trying to make it into a huge deal in order to take a cheap shot at feminism is dangerous and ignorant.
    Prosecutions, this is where I have my issue.

    Now, I fully accept there are more rapes than false accusations. However, I don't think you can accuratley say there were only 35 false accusations because they were only 35 prosecutions, the same way you wouldn't say there were only 5,651 rapes. However, people seem to apply a double standard to these figures.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Those stats really aren't good enough though, do you have any studies or know where I could find any. Because the last set I looked at had similar figures, they were on a Feminist blog. They assumed every person reported of Rape was guilty of Rape, labelled them 'rapists' and only included convictions for false allegations as 'false accusations.' And then there's the chronic under-reporting, so they times'd the 'rapists' figure by ten. There was really no sound methodology, of course I understand it's difficult to find figures for such things properly, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't at least be some effort to have a sound methodology.
    You could go find the Enliven project, they probably have the studies they used.

    Everyone twists the stats to show what they want them to show, at the end of the day.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Prosecutions, this is where I have my issue. Now, I fully accept there are more rapes than false accusations.
    Why? Is it easier to be a rapist than make false rape allegations?
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    (Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons)
    You could go find the Enliven project, they probably have the studies they used.

    Everyone twists the stats to show what they want them to show, at the end of the day.
    Hmm, well on their own site they admit a number of flaws in their infographic. And also raise and dismiss the concerns I have. It's a bit decietful, but I doubt their intent was malicious.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Prosecutions, this is where I have my issue.

    Now, I fully accept there are more rapes than false accusations. However, I don't think you can accuratley say there were only 35 false accusations because they were only 35 prosecutions, the same way you wouldn't say there were only 5,651 rapes. However, people seem to apply a double standard to these figures.
    Well at the end of the day it's all we have to go on and if nothing else the numbers can give us a pretty decent idea of how small the problem is in comparison to the far bigger problem of, y'know, women being raped.

    What I don't like is when the subject of rape comes up on here people are always quick to point out "there's nothing you can do about it! some people are just *******s! you're never going to change that! There's no such thing as rape culture!"

    But a tiny number of women make fraudulent rape claims? Surely we apply the same logic? Surely some women are just bad people too?

    NOPE. It's all feminist's fault! Feminism has destroyed our civilisation! Our society has gone to hell!
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Well at the end of the day it's all we have to go on and if nothing else the numbers can give us a pretty decent idea of how small the problem is in comparison to the far bigger problem of, y'know, women being raped.

    What I don't like is when the subject of rape comes up on here people are always quick to point out "there's nothing you can do about it! some people are just *******s! you're never going to change that! There's no such thing as rape culture!"

    But a tiny number of women make fraudulent rape claims? Sure we apply the same logic? Surely some women are just bad people too?

    NOPE. It's all feminist's fault! Feminism has destroyed our civilisation! Our society has gone to hell!
    I think the reason people have a go at feminism around the false allagation thing is because of how people are treated after being accused. Even when found guilty some people (I know this one from experiance) will say that the guy must be guilty because the girl said so.
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    (Original post by Coffinman)
    Why? Is it easier to be a rapist than make false rape allegations?
    No, but I don't believe women are making false accusations left right and centre. I believe there are some that do intentionally make false accusations. I do believe there are accusations of rape where what takes place is some lesser form of sexual assault or there is a solid defense which makes the 'rape' less than a rape, as it were.

    However, I do not believe these instances make up more than half of rape accusations. On the simple basis that I don't believe the majority of women are lieing about being raped. I have no staistic to back that belief, it's a simple belief I hold, just as I don't believe the majority of men will maliciously sexually assault a women given the oppurtunity.
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    (Original post by james22)
    I think the reason people have a go at feminism around the false allagation thing is because of how people are treated after being accused. Even when found guilty some people (I know this one from experiance) will say that the guy must be guilty because the girl said so.
    I don't think this has anything to do with feminism. The nature of the crime makes this more likely to happen since the victim makes a direct accusation against a person rather than police having to go out and find the perpetrator like with murders/burglaries. It's easier to think "oh I guess the police got the wrong guy, must've been somebody else" than it is to think "oh I guess this woman was lying and the whole thing never happened" especially if the accuser is a friend or something. This is not something brought about by feminism, it's just something that's incidental to how rape accusations work.

    Besides there are lots of murders where people are convinced the accused is guilty even after being found innocent. OJ Simpsons springs to mind.
 
 
 
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