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    (Original post by Metrobeans)
    I actually think knowing a foreign language is far more important than knowing how to program and that's coming from a CompSci undergrad.

    Though while knowledge of foreign languages has useful applications beyond the job market, I would argue that knowledge of programming languages doesn't really. And since 16 weeks education in software development is not going to be enough to make any pupil employable upon leaving school, it seems like a bit of a waste, particularly if the pupil has no interest in pursuing a career in software development.

    Also, people:

    Computer program
    Television programme

    To be fair, the syllabus would probably cover the difference between program and programme. As I was sadly not given the benefit of such teaching, I remained, until such time as I read your correction, ignorant of that difference.

    The idea is not to teach the skills an employer would directly want, but to introduce the children to programming so that those who found it interesting could pursue it further. Nobody gains enough knowledge to be employable in an area like this pre-A level really, but the hope is that if it introduced to kids, we'll get a lot more people following through to higher levels.
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    Regarding grade inflation, I believe that it is a problem. As far as I see it, there are a few possible solutions.

    We could normalise grade boundaries so that certain percentages get each grade. However, as we saw from the English crisis last year, this would probably not get a good reception, so it would need to be done gradually if it were to be done at all.

    We could make the qualifications harder, but this would be too intrusive for my liking.

    One interesting idea could be to put, alongside the UMS and grade, put the average grade achieved in the qualification. This would take a bit of getting used to but has its advantages.
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    (Original post by Krollo)
    I shall avoid changing the curriculum for the sake of it - however, when a tangible benefit would result, as in the introduction of coding, I shall not be averse to it.

    This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-I9100
    Thanks for that
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    I agree with this, if 16 weeks can inspire the next set of Google/Amazon creators then great.
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    Question: Why is Michael Gove still even in existence?
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    The idea is not to teach the skills an employer would directly want, but to introduce the children to programming so that those who found it interesting could pursue it further.
    Well that is silly, lets not teach children skills that are useful to employers, instead lets see if they will like computer programming :rolleyes: I remember my school's ICT with web programming, it was terrible and only a few people actually enjoyed it, I am not opposed to it as an option but to roll it into the curriculum? it is madness.
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    (Original post by Krack)
    Well that is silly, lets not teach children skills that are useful to employers, instead lets see if they will like computer programming :rolleyes: I remember my school's ICT with web programming, it was terrible and only a few people actually enjoyed it, I am not opposed to it as an option but to roll it into the curriculum? it is madness.
    Given that he appears to be referring to pre-GCSE, most skills are not useful to an employer at that age.
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    (Original post by Krack)
    Well that is silly, lets not teach children skills that are useful to employers, instead lets see if they will like computer programming :rolleyes: I remember my school's ICT with web programming, it was terrible and only a few people actually enjoyed it, I am not opposed to it as an option but to roll it into the curriculum? it is madness.
    Yeah, sorry, that was really poorly phrased. What I meant was that we shouldn't aim to teach employable skills in the pre-GCSE phase, in the same way that nobody would employ a translator who'd done year 9 french. The important point is to set up a 'pathway' through which kids can get into proper programming so that people aren't going from scratch to university or else restricting the degree programmes to people who have self taught.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    To be fair, the syllabus would probably cover the difference between program and programme. As I was sadly not given the benefit of such teaching, I remained, until such time as I read your correction, ignorant of that difference.

    The idea is not to teach the skills an employer would directly want, but to introduce the children to programming so that those who found it interesting could pursue it further. Nobody gains enough knowledge to be employable in an area like this pre-A level really, but the hope is that if it introduced to kids, we'll get a lot more people following through to higher levels.
    That's fine, but I still don't see the justification for making it compulsory and I'm rather surprised to see this coming from a Libertarian SoS. I think access should be widened and more schools should offer GCSE's in Computing, but if we are to make anything in our national curriculum compulsory, there has got to be a better reason than: "it will encourage more people to follow it through to higher levels and get a job in that specific industry".
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Yeah, sorry, that was really poorly phrased. What I meant was that we shouldn't aim to teach employable skills in the pre-GCSE phase, in the same way that nobody would employ a translator who'd done year 9 french. The important point is to set up a 'pathway' through which kids can get into proper programming so that people aren't going from scratch to university or else restricting the degree programmes to people who have self taught.
    In all honesty this country should start teaching skills that are useful in life and work a lot sooner rather than at GCSE level, having computer programming compulsory in order to get people interested is in my humble opinion ridiculous, you are catering to a minority here not the majority, while catering for the minority is good, it will only hinder the academic development of those in the majority that will get bored and tired of the subject quickly or because they cannot understand it and I'd rather not have the situation putting children in a worse off position academically.
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    (Original post by Metrobeans)
    That's fine, but I still don't see the justification for making it compulsory and I'm rather surprised to see this coming from a Libertarian SoS. I think access should be widened and more schools should offer GCSE's in Computing, but if we are to make anything in our national curriculum compulsory, there has got to be a better reason than: "it will encourage more people to follow it through to higher levels and get a job in that specific industry".
    Hopefully making it compulsory will force schools to offer greater access and make them far more likely to offer the GCSE. There are almost no schools which do not offer GCSEs in History, Geography and a modern language, because they have to do those pre-GCSE, so they've already got someone who can do them. If you want to push a subject into the sort of ubiquitous nature that history, music or drama enjoy then you need to put it on the curriculum and that's what we want for computing.
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    (Original post by Krack)
    In all honesty this country should start teaching skills that are useful in life and work a lot sooner rather than at GCSE level, having computer programming compulsory in order to get people interested is in my humble opinion ridiculous, you are catering to a minority here not the majority, while catering for the minority is good, it will only hinder the academic development of those in the majority that will get bored and tired of the subject quickly or because they cannot understand it and I'd rather not have the situation putting children in a worse off position academically.
    The point is that the foundations of almost any subject are not directly applicable to jobs. You need to start with easier stuff and work through to the more complex ideas. We're just proposing that we start that process before degree level for programming. Computer programming is becoming more and more important, and if the UK doesn't start to recognise that our national curriculum must move with the times, we're going to place our economy at a disadvantage for decades to come. We can't keep producing students with skills applicable only to a pre-digital economy and expect to keep up with a digital age.
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    (Original post by Krollo)
    While programming is very much a Marmite kind of thing, I don't see why a few weeks of mindless spreadsheet filling shouldn't make way for programming, to give the children who do like it an opportunity to get into coding. In the long run increasing quaternary industry will secure a foothold in the rapidly increasing IT market, and by giving the children these skills eventually everyone will benefit. Of course the exact timings are up for discussion.

    This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-I9100
    But not everyone needs to know how to program. Being an arts student myself, I know for pretty much certain that I will never have to program something, ever. What use would 16 weeks of programming be to me?

    (Original post by Thatstudentdude)
    Question: Why is Michael Gove still even in existence?
    I'm not sure tbh

    Just to be clear, this is a model House of Commons - the parties and politicians here are different to the real life. :yes:

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    I also think it's easier to teach yourself to program than it is to teach yourself a language, although that's purely anecdotal. I've picked up some Java, some HTML, both the C languages, some Python and a small amount of Assembly just by mucking around in spare time. Don't think I could do that with a language.

    EDIT: Wait, when did I become a Vengeful, Imperial Overlord?
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    What an eclectic choice of policy, if anything it seems unnecessary to introduce 'compulsory' computer programming. Languages, on the other hand, and our lack of compulsion in this field are far more important in a globalised job market.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Hopefully making it compulsory will force schools to offer greater access and make them far more likely to offer the GCSE. There are almost no schools which do not offer GCSEs in History, Geography and a modern language, because they have to do those pre-GCSE, so they've already got someone who can do them. If you want to push a subject into the sort of ubiquitous nature that history, music or drama enjoy then you need to put it on the curriculum and that's what we want for computing.
    Okay. Though I think that more pupils should be given the option to study for a GCSE in Computing and I recognise that making it compulsory could help with that, I still think that there are other ways that this can be accomplished. Most schools offer a GCSE in IT after all, so assuming that the teachers would also be qualified to teach Computing, schools could be encouraged to offer a Computing GCSE instead.

    I don't the attach the importance to Computing education that you do however and so I guess we shall agree to disagree on whether it is a good idea to force it on KS3 students.
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    (Original post by Cheese_Monster)
    What an eclectic choice of policy, if anything it seems unnecessary to introduce 'compulsory' computer programming. Languages, on the other hand, and our lack of compulsion in this field are far more important in a globalised job market.
    Modern languages are compulsory at KS3 already. We are simply adding computing to the syllabus (taking time from regular IT most likely)
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    (Original post by Mazzini)
    But not everyone needs to know how to program. Being an arts student myself, I know for pretty much certain that I will never have to program something, ever. What use would 16 weeks of programming be to me?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    What use chemistry to a poet, or poetry to a chemist? If we only taught universally useful things at school, we would end our schooling once people could read, write and do basic arithmetic, or perhaps before even that.
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    (Original post by Metrobeans)
    Okay. Though I think that more pupils should be given the option to study for a GCSE in Computing and I recognise that making it compulsory could help with that, I still think that there are other ways that this can be accomplished. Most schools offer a GCSE in IT after all, so assuming that the teachers would also be qualified to teach Computing, schools could be encouraged to offer a Computing GCSE instead.

    I don't the attach the importance to Computing education that you do however and so I guess we shall agree to disagree on whether it is a good idea to force it on KS3 students.
    The bill will seek to introduce GCSE and A Level courses for computing as well, to build a pathway for students who wish to carry on, in much the same way humanities, arts and languages are currently treated (start with basic compulsory teaching in KS3 and then allow those who wish to to pick them as optional subjects at GCSE and A-level and thence to the already available degree programmes).

    The hope is that the compulsory element will make sure that most if not all schools will offer this pathway, as they do with other subjects compulsory at KS3
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    What use chemistry to a poet, or poetry to a chemist? If we only taught universally useful things at school, we would end our schooling once people could read, write and do basic arithmetic, or perhaps before even that.
    Keats was a doctor...
 
 
 
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