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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    You think this, you think that blah blah blah. How about you try and see opposing points of view without just dismissing them straight away. I think Labour doesn't have a real understanding of economics, and they don't have any real ideas what to do with the economy. The same with the Conservatives etc, you'd think Osborne never actually listened in his history lessons with what the way he's handling things! What you and I think doesn't automatically make it true. And yes, UKIP does have a good understanding of the economy, Farage has more experience in the economy than Miliband/ Clegg/ Cameron put together. He's actually done a revolutionary thing called working in a job, and not just gone into politics straight after Oxbridge/Bullingdon Club/JSA.
    Farage has worked in a job? How nice. This isn't some sort of magic indicator that he therefore obviously knows how to run a country's economy. Having a job does not make him better qualified to talk about the complicated national and international economics that is involved in running a country than someone who actually has a degree in economics.
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    (Original post by TritonSails)
    I don't think the Conservatives know what they're doing with the economy either. But you don't learn about the kind of national and international economics integral to running a country by being a businessman. 'Economics' is not the same thing as 'business'.
    Yes but in my view a large factor in an economy is business. I.e. getting economic growth is through promotion of business. I'm not suggesting having a job or owning a business means you know it all, all I'm saying is that merely having a degree of some sort, whether it's economics or history, doesn't prove you are more superior than someone without one. If everyone with economics degrees knew everything about economies, then frankly, the world would not be in such an economic state right now.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Cherry picked poll.

    The ICM has Ukip 6 points behind on 9%, i can cherry pick as well.

    Ukip will gain but if they double the Lib Dems, i will stick my finger up my own ass.
    UKIP on 17% in the 20th April Opinium/Observer poll: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...bour-ukip-poll

    Lib Dems at 8%
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    You think this, you think that blah blah blah. How about you try and see opposing points of view without just dismissing them straight away. I think Labour doesn't have a real understanding of economics, and they don't have any real ideas what to do with the economy. The same with the Conservatives etc, you'd think Osborne never actually listened in his history lessons with what the way he's handling things! What you and I think doesn't automatically make it true. And yes, UKIP does have a good understanding of the economy, Farage has more experience in the economy than Miliband/ Clegg/ Cameron put together. He's actually done a revolutionary thing called working in a job, and not just gone into politics straight after Oxbridge/Bullingdon Club/JSA.
    Ehhh when you have a policy to increase the military budget by 40% you obviously have no idea what your talking about.

    (Original post by thesabbath)
    UKIP on 17% in the 20th April Opinium/Observer poll: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...bour-ukip-poll

    Lib Dems at 8%
    And ICM have the most accurate track record, so I'm more likely to believe them.
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    (Original post by thesabbath)
    UKIP on 17% in the 20th April Opinium/Observer poll: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...bour-ukip-poll

    Lib Dems at 8%
    Indeed. The point is though that the majority have them pretty much equal with 1/2 points difference either side.

    Personally I've gone with the ICM since 2009 so i'll stick with that.
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    You are aware of ICM's "spiral of silence" adjustment method, right? They allocate "don't knows" to the Party they voted for in 2010, and as UKIP took just 3% in 2010 this obviously hammers their vote projection. But feel free to believe ICM is the most accurate, you'll be surprised on May 02nd in that case imo.
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    (Original post by thesabbath)
    You are aware of ICM's "spiral of silence" adjustment method, right? They allocate "don't knows" to the Party they voted for in 2010, and as UKIP took just 3% in 2010 this obviously hammers their vote projection. But feel free to believe ICM is the most accurate, you'll be surprised on May 02nd in that case imo.
    Indeed, on election day it's widely documented that people vote different to how they are polled mid-term. The "shy Tory" vote for example. Additionally at the local elections in 2011 and 2012 the Liberal Democrats got 16% (closest poll ICM).
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    (Original post by thesabbath)
    You are aware of ICM's "spiral of silence" adjustment method, right? They allocate "don't knows" to the Party they voted for in 2010, and as UKIP took just 3% in 2010 this obviously hammers their vote projection. But feel free to believe ICM is the most accurate, you'll be surprised on May 02nd in that case imo.
    ICM were the most accurate in 2010.

    And yes, you will find that a lot of people will switch back to vote for the party they previously voted for and there are historical examples.

    Take 2010 itself, the Liberal Democrats achieved a historical high with Nick Clegg on approval ratings only seen by Churchill previously. Polls predicted 26-30% on the day, they only got 23% a swing of 1%.

    2001, predicted Labour lead of 17%, reality was 9%
    1997, end polls predicted Labour would get upto 51% they only got 43%.
    1992, polls predicted Labour lead between 1-3%. Conservatives won by 7%.

    Here is the reality, people lie. They want change, but when they actually go into the polling booth odds are they are going to vote for who they did previously. UKIP may have a surge, the Alliance did and failed, the Lib Dems did and failed. UKIP probably will fail.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    debates healthy. Debates good. screaming and shouting Rascist, Bigot, Facist etc isn't.
    He didn't use any of those words... and I suspect that if he had he would have spelt them right.
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    (Original post by TritonSails)
    Farage has worked in a job? How nice. This isn't some sort of magic indicator that he therefore obviously knows how to run a country's economy. Having a job does not make him better qualified to talk about the complicated national and international economics that is involved in running a country than someone who actually has a degree in economics.
    George Osborne does not have a degree in economics.
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    (Original post by Will Lucky)
    Ehhh when you have a policy to increase the military budget by 40% you obviously have no idea what your talking about.



    And ICM have the most accurate track record, so I'm more likely to believe them.
    Obviously...:rolleyes: Ignorant child. Do you realise that a 40% increase would bring jobs and economic growth, for example in defense manufacturing? Yes, obviously hasn't a clue what he's doing at all!...:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Horakhty)
    I doubt this really means much. UKIP does go on about Europe alot, but the way our countries economy is heading, the factor that will be in most peoples' heads when voting is how much money they have in their pocket, or how much they stand to lose, this is why we have support for labour after Gordon Brown
    This is exactly the problem they'll have. People will say 'what about the economy?' when we do more than half our trade with the EU, which is killing the economies we would export to and preventing us from finding new trade partners. People will say 'what about my money?' when the CAP is raising their food prices and taxing them for the privilege.
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    (Original post by Ace123)
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-support.html

    Is there going to be a big shock with UKIP for the other parties in the local elections
    I'm not so sure. LibDems had a massive surge in the polls before having their worst election result in years.

    Big amount of support but everybody chickened out when it came to actually voting for them.



    Having said that, the amount of bum licking Farage is currently receiving by the BBC could swing it in UKIP's favour
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    George Osborne does not have a degree in economics.
    Norman Lamont was the last Chancellor who had studied economics.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    You think this, you think that blah blah blah. How about you try and see opposing points of view without just dismissing them straight away. I think Labour doesn't have a real understanding of economics, and they don't have any real ideas what to do with the economy. The same with the Conservatives etc, you'd think Osborne never actually listened in his history lessons with what the way he's handling things! What you and I think doesn't automatically make it true. And yes, UKIP does have a good understanding of the economy, Farage has more experience in the economy than Miliband/ Clegg/ Cameron put together. He's actually done a revolutionary thing called working in a job, and not just gone into politics straight after Oxbridge/Bullingdon Club/JSA.
    I suppose Cameron's 7 years working for Carlton Communications doesn't count as a job right?

    Or Miliband's MSc in Economics counts for little in economic experience? Not to mention his years as advisor to the then Chancellor, Gordon Brown?

    And what of Clegg's time as a journalist for the Financial Times?


    My point- Farage isn't a God for having been employed.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    George Osborne does not have a degree in economics.
    When did I suggest I thought he knew what he was doing? Attacking ukip is not simultaneously defending the Tories.
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    (Original post by Rooster523)
    I suppose Cameron's 7 years working for Carlton Communications doesn't count as a job right?

    Or Miliband's MSc in Economics counts for little in economic experience? Not to mention his years as advisor to the then Chancellor, Gordon Brown?

    And what of Clegg's time as a journalist for the Financial Times?


    My point- Farage isn't a God for having been employed.
    I never said he's god, but he has far more experience than any of them lot!
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    debates healthy. Debates good. screaming and shouting Rascist, Bigot, Facist etc isn't.
    I find it interesting that you say screaming and shouting accusation constantly isn't good yet the first thin you did was call him 'leftwing'. UKIP supporters seem to always shout this along with 'brainwashed' and 'socialist'. So, it goes both ways really
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    I never said he's god, but he has far more experience than any of them lot!
    I know you didn't say it directly, but you seem to hold the fact he's had a job in high esteem.

    He wants to increase the defence budget by 40%. If he finds room in the budget for that he probably is a God.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    This is exactly the problem they'll have. People will say 'what about the economy?' when we do more than half our trade with the EU, which is killing the economies we would export to and preventing us from finding new trade partners. People will say 'what about my money?' when the CAP is raising their food prices and taxing them for the privilege.
    If the EU is killing our trade then why does Germany have 12% of its exports go to the BRIC's and 5% for the UK. Why does France out-trade us in Brazil, why (at least in 2011) did the Netherlands beat us in Nigeria and India.

    If countries like the Netherlands can beat us then why must Euro-skeptics play a blame game rather than accept that the UK trades inefficiently and seek to improve that because once the UK and EU both have trade treaties we could well the situation playing out similarly.

    On the other foot, if the EU is hampering us then why are we recording double digit trade growth. Is it not truer to say that before the recession there was simply an inadequate focus on international trade.

 
 
 
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