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Labour and lib dems completely out of touch with welfare. Watch

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    (Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
    See above for some of your points.

    No, I never needed medication whilst growing up.
    I haven't ever needed to see a doctor, no.

    My parents are not millionaires - but they are comfortably off.

    I don't think it is the obligation of people that have money to pay for things that those who don't have it want. If they want to, as an act of voluntary charity, that is their choice - but nobody should be forced to do so through the tax system.

    I've never been seriously ill (the worst illness I've ever had was the rather mild swine flu during the pandemic a few years ago, which come and went in a few days) in my life, so I don't think there's any problem in me not having had vaccinations.
    Imagine if the thousands of people refused to have the Smallpox vaccination? We would still have that terrible disease in the world, arguably the worst disease known to man. Don't get me wrong, you are totally entitled to you're view and in this country, you're parents were entitled not to vaccinate you, and I too have had a nice upbringing, have my own house and a wee pub, but I think as a society, we have an obligation to support the disabled and the sick. You never know when you will need the NHS. If one is hit by a car, you will go and get treated on the NHS.
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    (Original post by Am I Really Here)
    The problem is, nobody seems to say who these people are who get £24 000 a year. Who are they? Are they people with large families? Are they people living in very expensive areas of London? Are they working? Do they refuse to work?

    I have no idea. It certainly seems like a good way to deter large families though, which is all to the good. The question is how many children will suffer short term hardship and long term disadvantages because of this. Need to see statistics. I have seen none.
    The there's no need to get worried about it then.
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    (Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
    I was born at Portland Hospital in London.

    As to vaccinations, I don't believe I've had any - and I seem to be quite alright.
    Well the day you or Yours falls ill, or suffers a disability, YOU will be crying for your momma.
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    (Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
    I would prefer a cap of £0.

    I'd like to see the welfare state completely dismantled, including the NHS.

    Regardless of circumstances, it is not right that one has the ability to steal, through the state, from others for their own benefit. There is no moral difference from holding a gun to someone's head and mugging them or using the state to accomplish the same end result; self-enrichment through force.

    Mere misfortune is not a claim to slave labour.
    So let me get this straight:

    You're family is comfortably well of enough that you've never had to claim benefits for anything.

    You have never been seriously ill and presumably none of your immediate family have either (if they have they have in someway used something requiring NHS funding).

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    Tell us again how you're a slave and the government/people not as wealthy or bizarrely healthy as you are stealing from you.
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    (Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
    I would prefer a cap of £0.

    I'd like to see the welfare state completely dismantled, including the NHS.

    Regardless of circumstances, it is not right that one has the ability to steal, through the state, from others for their own benefit. There is no moral difference from holding a gun to someone's head and mugging them or using the state to accomplish the same end result; self-enrichment through force.

    Mere misfortune is not a claim to slave labour.
    EDIT: In reference to your name, I'm an aspiring law student too (2nd year at Lancaster), but we have very different views on the world it seems.

    Social security and the NHS are paid for through taxation of every person who works or has worked at some point in their life. To say the people using it 'steal' from others is a complete lie. I've paid taxes and therefore contributed to the costs of keeping the NHS open, so you can't claim I've stolen from you or anybody else for that matter. Your argument is very self-centred and smacks of a privileged child's upbringing.

    Many people in the UK are on a low income. The increased costs of housing, food, petrol/public transport etc - i.e. the basic means of having a decent quality of life - mean that many people on low incomes, after tax, have little money to put in banks or to invest with. Many have no prospects of wealth and will remain in this position for their lifetime because the socio-economic system we live in requires that in order to profit. In order to balance this your idea of 'do-gooders' in 1948 under Clement Attlee created the NHS to ensure these people could at least have healthcare should they become sick. The welfare state is a fantastic sign of community spirit in saying that just because you were born into a family, or born into an area of low economic prosperity, you won't be left in the gutter to suffer.

    Imagine the consequences if we had no NHS? The poorer would struggle to find cheap medical treatment because a purely privitised health sector would only seek to make profits. They would likely charge high fees for basic care, and even potentially mislead less informed patients into purchasing medication which did not even benefit them. If these people couldn't afford healthcare, their employers would then sack them if they were unable to return to work or do their job properly within a certain period. As well as this, imagine the mass unemployment of nurses and doctors who are on the NHS? Before you claim they'd all move to the private sector, it's highly doubtful because the cost of private healthcare would discourage many lower-income households from seeking treatment. The supply of doctors would be too great, and many would instead see themselves unemployed.

    This is where your real self-centred, illogical concept really kicks in. Those people would then try and claim job-seekers allowance once they became better, but OH NO, the privileged people have decided that you have no entitlement because you're 'stealing from them'. That person then has NO money, no healthcare and quite possibly a family to try and look after. That person used to be able to support/contribute to their family costs, but now they're unemployed through no fault of their own, the richer clssses look down on them as 'thieves'. What does that person resort to? Ironically, probably crime. Who will they steal from? Anybody, but the privileged amongst us would need a tighter hold on their purse/wallet because they'll be the significant targets.

    The real telling point of your argument is that it sounds as if you've never been in a situation where you've ever needed financial help because of circumstances which are out of your control and indiscriminate as to who they harm. Don't forget, the NHS actually HELPS people like you who have no concept of how to balance economic and social factors. A healthy workforce can work and earn a wage, not requiring them to 'sponge' off the state. Especially for those on lower incomes, who have a higher marginal propensity to spend (for every £1 they earn they spend 90% + of it etc) and therefore DRIVE the economy which has helped put you in such a high and mighty position to judge. If they save some of it, they may be able to make ends meet whilst looking for a job. Social security can only FURTHER that end. However, as I've said, it's very difficult for these people given the costs of basic necessities; so we need to help them so they can continue to drive our economy.

    I find it laughable that the comfortable in our society try and tell the uncomfortable just how much more uncomfortable their lives should be.
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    (Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
    Haven't had them in the last twenty years.
    Probably because everyone you've come into contact with has been vaccinated.

    Herd immunity, you're welcome.
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    (Original post by Am I Really Here)
    With the conservatives on this.

    Caroline Flint is looking rough. A shame.
    I was disappointed to. She's looking past her best.

    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    The government tend to put Sarah Teather on QT when they need someone who can feign ignorance at their policies and let the big players (Iain Duncan Smith, Theresa May etc) lie low for a bit.
    She came off a a liberal dogooder living on a different planet. It seems like she refuses to accept that there are scumbags on this planet. She doesn't like segregating groups... What a load of rubbish. People like her, liberal rehabilitates are the reason this country has gone down the pan.
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    (Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
    You've heard of a 'joke' before, right?
    That's some impressive backpedaling you're doing there.
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    Labour were bloody stupid not to support the Benefit Cap.

    It's not only reasonable and thus very difficult to oppose, it would have also removed the "oh, they'll oppose anything" line of attack from the Government and made them look like a mature opposition. They could even have used their support to highlight the relative pointlessness of it all: that it doesn't really matter much because the numbers are so small.

    Still, that would require the Labour Party to be remotely competent.
 
 
 
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