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EU 'exaserbated' by EU referendum vote Watch

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    Only Scots should have a say in Scottish matters. It is SCOTland, Scottish-land, SCOTs' land, land of the Scots.

    Leave it to be, if you chose to leave Scotland (unless educational matters) and are not residential there, you should not have a say in the future of a country you will not participate in. (seeing family and friends is s different matter, you will not have endure any pain or tax)

    PLEASE just allow Scotland to have the only say in its own matters, it is unfair if the rest if the U.K. vote for the matters of Scotland, it is unfair and in equal. Not to mention dishonorable. This is why Scotland should have independence, along many other reason.

    Potentially a leading country and wealthy.
    Oil industries
    renewable energy industries
    employment rate could skyrocket(due to scotland needing defence forces ,they will need people to fill those forces and have companies build them up, employing ship builders and so on)
    the oil will not 'dry up', there is a ton of oil out there Scotland has rights to


    Also, be patriotic, to say no to independence is to not have faith in Scotland and in yourselves. Those may say i want a Labour independent Scotland, then vote Independent and vote Salmond out!

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/03...n-re-debunked/
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    Only Scots should have a say in Scottish matters. It is SCOTland, Scottish-land, SCOTs' land, land of the Scots.

    Leave it to be, if you chose to leave Scotland (unless educational matters) and are not residential there, you should not have a say in the future of a country you will not participate in. (seeing family and friends is s different matter, you will not have endure any pain or tax)

    PLEASE just allow Scotland to have the only say in its own matters, it is unfair if the rest if the U.K. vote for the matters of Scotland, it is unfair and not equal. Not to mention dishonorable. This is why Scotland should have independence, along many other reason.

    Potentially a leading country and wealthy.
    Oil industries
    renewable energy industries
    employment rate could skyrocket(due to scotland needing defence forces ,they will need people to fill those forces and have companies build them up, employing ship builders and so on)
    the oil will not 'dry up', there is a ton of oil out there Scotland has rights to


    Also, be patriotic, to say no to independence is to not have faith in Scotland and in yourselves. Those may say i want a Labour independent Scotland, then vote Independent and vote Salmond out!

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/03...n-re-debunked/
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    (Original post by Seahorseman)
    True I guess UKIP and co campaign for a referendum rather than a parliament vote to leave as it sounds more appealing. So to prove your point i'll just keep voting UKIP till we leave.
    The only way you'll ever get a say on whether to leave is by voting Conservative. A UKIP vote is a Labour vote- and you know what they're like with the EU.
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    (Original post by SpiggyTopes)
    The only way you'll ever get a say on whether to leave is by voting Conservative. A UKIP vote is a Labour vote- and you know what they're like with the EU.
    Peter Kellner came up with an interesting analysis which concludes "anyone whose overriding passion is for Britain to stay in the EU should vote Conservative – while anyone desperate to maximise the chances of quitting the club should vote Labour".
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-eu-referendum
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    (Original post by Pastaferian)
    Peter Kellner came up with an interesting analysis which concludes "anyone whose overriding passion is for Britain to stay in the EU should vote Conservative – while anyone desperate to maximise the chances of quitting the club should vote Labour".
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-eu-referendum
    Portillo actually made an interesting statement on This Week in which he said despite his comment that he would vote 'Out' in the newspaper article, he felt that the result would be an 'In' vote and that worse for his position, this would be used to justify further integration.
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    (Original post by Pastaferian)
    Peter Kellner came up with an interesting analysis which concludes "anyone whose overriding passion is for Britain to stay in the EU should vote Conservative – while anyone desperate to maximise the chances of quitting the club should vote Labour".
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-eu-referendum
    Balderdash and piffle!
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Portillo actually made an interesting statement on This Week in which he said despite his comment that he would vote 'Out' in the newspaper article, he felt that the result would be an 'In' vote and that worse for his position, this would be used to justify further integration.
    That's a really interesting point.

    I wonder what would happen to the Eurosceptics if there's a decisive vote to stay in. Would they melt away overnight?
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    Cameron doesn't have the balls, unfortunately. Even if he did, there's no way the LibDems would allow it.

    If Cameron somehow did get us out of the EU, I'd vote Tory in 2015. I imagine a lot of other people would. If he could do it now and stop 600,000 Romanians and Bulgarians coming in LEGALLY I'd go to his house and kiss his feet.
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    (Original post by playingcards)
    The ENTIRE point of representative democracy is that our elected leaders make decisions which are expected to be in the best interests of the country. We elect people to get to grips with the minutiae of legislative detail and its consequences, not because they’re necessarily cleverer or better than we are, but because decisions have to be informed. This stuff is complicated, and most people are too busy putting food on the table to balance up and make a decision on, for example, the social, moral, and economics implications of reducing the legal aid bill by £350m. By having people whose job it is to think about this stuff, we get to better outcomes for the country.

    By your logic, people haven’t had a say on legal aid, or capital punishment, or the monarchy, or defence expenditure, or gay marriage, or any other of the thousands of bills and proposals that pass through each parliament.

    By all means, vote UKIP or Tory next time around. I hope that a Eurosceptic majority in Parliament 2015 would lead us out of Europe in a rational and sensible way. But stop pretending that a referendum is about democracy. It’s about you getting what you want. And to hell with the consequences.
    Isn't that just essentially what democracy is, but en masse? Do you really think most people vote against their interests?
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    (Original post by playingcards)
    That's a really interesting point.

    I wonder what would happen to the Eurosceptics if there's a decisive vote to stay in. Would they melt away overnight?
    Ukip wouldn't, Farage is no more principled than any other politician and he will simply view x% as something to build on.

    I imagine some of their support would drop but the EU is a low priority issue for most voters anyway.
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    (Original post by OedipusTheKing)
    Isn't that just essentially what democracy is, but en masse?
    My point is the referendumistas are trying to claim theyre defending the democratic impulse when they really have no regard for it. It's a convenient cover, but ultimately, they just want to get out of Europe. If Cameron withdrew us unilaterally tomorrow, they would stop asking for a referendum. They don't fundamentally care that the people have a right to decide - they just want to get their demands answered, and they think that a referendum is the best way to do it.

    It's like me demanding a general election this week, because "we havent been consulted on our government for three years now", and I reckon my favoured party would win if we went to the polls tomorrow. And saying to those who deny it: Why don't you trust the people? Don't they have a right to decide? Why are you denying them a vote?

    In that scenario, I'm actually just subverting due process, whilst trying to claim the moral high ground. In reality, hiding behind the term "democracy" is just a cover for me to get my own party elected.

    (Original post by OedipusTheKing)
    Do you really think most people vote against their interests?
    No. But I never suggested that.
    People will balance up their likely economic, social, ideological outcomes, and make a decision accordingly. Personally, I vote for a social ideal at the possible expense of my own material situation. But it's still fundamentally a vote in my interests because that's what I choose to prioritise. To do otherwise would pervert the concept of voting, so I don't think it's too outlandish to see the idea of "voting in your own interests" as tautological.
    I'm not really sure what you're driving at.
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    (Original post by WATKINS94)
    Only Scots should have a say in Scottish matters. It is SCOTland, Scottish-land, SCOTs' land, land of the Scots.

    Leave it to be, if you chose to leave Scotland (unless educational matters) and are not residential there, you should not have a say in the future of a country you will not participate in. (seeing family and friends is s different matter, you will not have endure any pain or tax)

    PLEASE just allow Scotland to have the only say in its own matters, it is unfair if the rest if the U.K. vote for the matters of Scotland, it is unfair and not equal. Not to mention dishonorable. This is why Scotland should have independence, along many other reason.

    Potentially a leading country and wealthy.
    Oil industries
    renewable energy industries
    employment rate could skyrocket(due to scotland needing defence forces ,they will need people to fill those forces and have companies build them up, employing ship builders and so on)
    the oil will not 'dry up', there is a ton of oil out there Scotland has rights to


    Also, be patriotic, to say no to independence is to not have faith in Scotland and in yourselves. Those may say i want a Labour independent Scotland, then vote Independent and vote Salmond out!

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/03...n-re-debunked/


    I have full confidence in Scotland's future, that's why I, and the majority of the scottish electorate will be voting to remain part of the UK next September.
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    (Original post by Ace123)
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...rates-brussels

    oh dear the EU is clearly worried the people may actually get a say
    Exacerbated or exasperated? They have completely different meanings, you know?
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    Mario Draghi of the ECB has waded in:

    http://euobserver.com/economic/120227
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    Mario Draghi of the ECB has waded in:

    http://euobserver.com/economic/120227
    You can't homogenise different countries.

    **** them.
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    (Original post by SpiggyTopes)
    The only way you'll ever get a say on whether to leave is by voting Conservative. A UKIP vote is a Labour vote- and you know what they're like with the EU.
    The only way you'll ever get a say on whether to leave is by voting UKIP. A Conservative vote is a Labour vote- and you know what they're like with the EU.
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    (Original post by playingcards)
    We do get a say. We had a say in 2010, 2005, 2001, 1997, 1992, etc etc.
    That was a general election not a referendum!
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    (Original post by a729)
    That was a general election not a referendum!
    If the EU is so important to you then vote Ukip. We live in a representative democracy and while i don't oppose a referendum, i'm not in any rush for one.
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    (Original post by a729)
    That was a general election not a referendum!
    Yes. That's my point. We have a representative democracy.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    If the EU is so important to you then vote Ukip. We live in a representative democracy and while i don't oppose a referendum, i'm not in any rush for one.
    Yes but the entire point of the referendum is to decide if the general public actually want to be governed by the EU Parliament.
 
 
 
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