Poland Outlaws Halal and Kosher slaughter of animals Watch

2011wc2013ct
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Psyk)
Although I personally don't know if Halal slaughter is excessively cruel or not.
take a look at a video and see what you think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_bZzxep87c
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2011wc2013ct
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#22
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(Original post by Iqbal007)
I don't really trust this thread.............there is no source, and last I heard of this issue was back last year when a top court found it to be not allowed against current laws and Poland is still deciding about opting out of a EU law allowing religious slaughter :/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...f-animals.html I presume you just are just distrusting of news and media reporting generally
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Psyk
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#23
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(Original post by 2011wc2013ct)
take a look at a video and see what you think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_bZzxep87c
Of course that video looks shocking to me, but for all I know non-Halal slaughter methods will look just as shocking. And also I don't know much about biology, so even though it looks painful to me (lots of bloody everywhere, etc.), I'm not in a position to know whether it really is any worse or not.

Also people who make videos like that will cherry pick the most shocking looking footage. Likewise someone who supports it will pick the cleanest looking footage. So I find it hard to trust either side.
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AspiringGenius
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(Original post by Sextus)
Get a sense of proportion will you. For example I can state that I want to legalize some durgs e.g cannabis, this doesnt mean that i want to legalize all drugs that may be more harmful e.g heroin.
How have I got no sense of proportion- whether you kill an animal by stun and kill or by cutting its throat and letting it bleed to death you still end up with a dead animal. The effects of heroin are completely different from cannabis.

I believe these measures are rooted in Islamophobia and anti-semitic sentiments in Poland and not genuine concern for animal welfare.
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AspiringGenius
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#25
(Original post by Psyk)
I think there is a middle ground. I don't think it's inconsistent to support killing animals for food but to be against doing so in an excessively cruel way. Although I personally don't know if Halal slaughter is excessively cruel or not.
Well afaik halal involves cutting the animals throat and letting it bleed while someone says a prayer. It is cruel, but then other methods aren't exactly pleasant either. However you look at it, killing the animals is going to be cruel and it's utter rubbish that this move on Polands behalf is because of animal welfare.
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Iqbal007
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#26
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(Original post by 2011wc2013ct)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...f-animals.html I presume you just are just distrusting of news and media reporting generally
Oh so your one of those guys :rolleyes:

Think about it, you created a thread in the news section and failed to provide any source at the begin so obviously if you dont provide evidence at the beginning then there will be doubt.


Why are you posting old news? "3:44PM GMT 28 Nov 2012"
And again, you fail to mention the full story, taken from your source:

"But whether the ban will remain is moot. On January 1, EU regulations permitting religious slaughter come into effect, and Stanislaw Kalemba, Poland's agriculture minister, said that EU law took precedence over Polish law."

So I highly doubt that it will be outlawed for so long.
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The Polymath
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#27
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(Original post by Al-Mudaari)
Well this is hilarious
Spoiler:
Show





Muslims/Jews can still import meat I guess.
How is socially awkward penguin in any way relevant here? :lolwut:
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JC.
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Good for them.
At last modern forthright thinking trumps the antics of ancient backward cave dwelling lunatics.

Now we just need the abhorrent practice banned in the UK.
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2011wc2013ct
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#29
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(Original post by Psyk)
Of course that video looks shocking to me, but for all I know non-Halal slaughter methods will look just as shocking. And also I don't know much about biology, so even though it looks painful to me (lots of bloody everywhere, etc.), I'm not in a position to know whether it really is any worse or not.

Also people who make videos like that will cherry pick the most shocking looking footage. Likewise someone who supports it will pick the cleanest looking footage. So I find it hard to trust either side.
the non halal/kosher was at the very beginning where cattle were stunned unconscious first- its not about the blood -the animals were clearly in distress from the noises and actions they were making as a result of having their throats slit. and its not about cherry picking either , you were asking and they were failry straight forward exaples of halal slaughter- halal isn't a scientific method -it just a very old fashioned way tribal people killed animals in the desert (some African tribes still do these )- so animal pain and welfare was not a primary concern.
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Sextus
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(Original post by AspiringGenius)
How have I got no sense of proportion- whether you kill an animal by stun and kill or by cutting its throat and letting it bleed to death you still end up with a dead animal. The effects of heroin are completely different from cannabis.I believe these measures are rooted in Islamophobia and anti-semitic sentiments in Poland and not genuine concern for animal welfare.
I'm not agreeing with the OP, but I am saying that you've provided no logical link between the enacting of the OP's mentioned policy and the outright banning of meat eating. You've presented the slippery slope fallacy.
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2011wc2013ct
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#31
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(Original post by Iqbal007)
Oh so your one of those guys :rolleyes:

Think about it, you created a thread in the news section and failed to provide any source at the begin so obviously if you dont provide evidence at the beginning then there will be doubt.


Why are you posting old news? "3:44PM GMT 28 Nov 2012"
And again, you fail to mention the full story, taken from your source:

"But whether the ban will remain is moot. On January 1, EU regulations permitting religious slaughter come into effect, and Stanislaw Kalemba, Poland's agriculture minister, said that EU law took precedence over Polish law."

So I highly doubt that it will be outlawed for so long.
it became topical because the Poles recently threw out a challenge to the ban on kosher/halal- again people who read news are aware of topical events. the EU issue is far form settled, the January 1st, EU Directive regarding" Ritual slaughters" making prior stunning a requirement , which was not originally found in haal or kosher,w hich itself brought about contrversy amoungt those communities in various countires. also other countires such as Netherlands were attempting to apply their own bans on Ritual slaughters, under the grounds of similar EU legistlation on Animal welfare. Mot people are already up in arms that EU would try and legalise Ritual Slaughter, on the basis that any one could start uncessasrily ritually abusing animals for some sect or cult and be legalised under the EU bill.
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Psyk
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#32
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(Original post by 2011wc2013ct)
the non halal/kosher was at the very beginning where cattle were stunned unconscious first- its not about the blood -the animals were clearly in distress from the noises and actions they were making as a result of having their throats slit. and its not about cherry picking either , you were asking and they were failry straight forward exaples of halal slaughter- halal isn't a scientific method -it just a very old fashioned way tribal people killed animals in the desert (some African tribes still do these )- so animal pain and welfare was not a primary concern.
You say it's not cherry picked, but how can I be sure of that? I'd have to do much wider research rather than just looking at a few videos that clearly only show one side of the argument. And to be honest, I don't care enough to do that.
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sophia_
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#33
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#33
Or perhaps the method of 'killing' animals should not be argued, the idea that they are to be killed at all should be.
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Martyn*
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#34
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(Original post by pol pot noodles)
Yet another convenient personal anecdote from you.
A true anecdote nevertheless.
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AspiringGenius
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#35
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(Original post by Sextus)
I'm not agreeing with the OP, but I am saying that you've provided no logical link between the enacting of the OP's mentioned policy and the outright banning of meat eating. You've presented the slippery slope fallacy.
I thought I made myself perfectly clear

-the policy is because its cruel to kill animals in such manners
-i say it's cruel to kill an animal in any way
-if the Polish government are enacting laws to prevent kosher and halal meat because of cruelty, then I believe they should ban killing all animals for meat consumption.
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2011wc2013ct
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#36
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(Original post by Psyk)
You say it's not cherry picked, but how can I be sure of that? I'd have to do much wider research rather than just looking at a few videos that clearly only show one side of the argument. And to be honest, I don't care enough to do that.
its not cherry picking to give a standard example of a hala slaughter - hal slaughter and kohseher geenrall follow some basic principles that were set out , what some 1000+ years ago? the primary ones are the animal must be bled to death, from the neck and the meet passed though ritual by a Islamic priest/ rabbi - so they arnt allowed to be killed instantlaneously by bolt gun etc, as has been developed in the West - because the method of killing can only by deprivation of blood - as has been shown in the video
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Iqbal007
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#37
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(Original post by 2011wc2013ct)
it became topical because the Poles recently threw out a challenge to the ban on kosher/halal- again people who read news are aware of topical events. the EU issue is far form settled, the January 1st, EU Directive regarding" Ritual slaughters" making prior stunning a requirement , which was not originally found in haal or kosher,w hich itself brought about contrversy amoungt those communities in various countires. also other countires such as Netherlands were attempting to apply their own bans on Ritual slaughters, under the grounds of similar EU legistlation on Animal welfare. Mot people are already up in arms that EU would try and legalise Ritual Slaughter, on the basis that any one could start uncessasrily ritually abusing animals for some sect or cult and be legalised under the EU bill.
Well if thats case, then why didn't post a news source on that recent matter?
Well as far as I'm aware its not settled and the Poles will face legal issues with no complying with EU laws, and I'm pretty sure that the Ritual slaughter directive means that halal + kosher can be exempted from stunning, like in the UK, Ireland, etc.

Looking into the case further, its not the end of the matter, and looking at things, there will be more legal filings as people are bringing in more laws like one which relates to looking after the local Jewish pop, laws with Israel and with religion.
And besides, halal+kosher slaughter is currently banned, however this does not stop people from importing such meat into the country.......however it will reflect poorly in terms of economics with higher costs for some members of the population and loss in revenue for the agriculture industry.
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Sextus
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(Original post by AspiringGenius)
I thought I made myself perfectly clear-the policy is because its cruel to kill animals in such manners-i say it's cruel to kill an animal in any way-if the Polish government are enacting laws to prevent kosher and halal meat because of cruelty, then I believe they should ban killing all animals for meat consumption.
Would you not concede that the implications of banning kosher are dwarfed by the implications of a full scale ban on meat consumption?
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Skip_Snip
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#39
(Original post by Psyk)
Things like this make me a bit suspicious. Is the reasoning behind this law really based on animal rights, or is it just an excuse to suppress some religions?
Either way the ban is good
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Sextus
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(Original post by Skip_Snip)
Either way the ban is good
Suppressing freedom of expression is not 'good' in my eyes. Broadly speaking
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