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    (Original post by Maid Marian)
    But you're either pretty or you're not....
    Granted, but a lot of average-looking people make themselves look ugly because they make no effort with their appearance. I remember girls from school that have naturally pretty features, yet since school they piled on a load of weight and dress like crap which makes them look ugly. Vice versa, some girls from my school were considered average or ugly, but now they've lost weight (or gained and look better for it) and they know how to dress and do their hair, they look pretty hot as a result.
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    (Original post by 4RealBlud)
    What you're saying is true, but there are certain techniques that also compliment an exciting and healthy lifestyle that most people who are good with the opposite sex acquire through experience, either via trial and error or outside information.

    Developing a great personality and body is great, but unfortunately only half the battle. However if you use both, you're probably an amazingly smooth with the opposite sex.
    You don't need anything other than a decent set of social skills and understanding of how people behave.

    Most "techniques" that apparently work come down to self confidence/the placebo effect (which would work anyway) or something else about you being attractive. If an attractive guy chats me up and I'm in the mood, I'll give him my number because he's attractive, not because he might have spent ages reading some ****y seduction book and used a line out of here somewhere in our convo.

    On the other hand, I've read about PUA stuff out of curiosity, and I turn down any guy I spot seeing it (and used to even before I knew about that) because it makes someone come off as a complete sleazeball and speaks volumes about their attitude to girls and general social skills.
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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    Granted, but a lot of average-looking people make themselves look ugly because they make no effort with their appearance. I remember girls from school that have naturally pretty features, yet since school they piled on a load of weight and dress like crap which makes them look ugly. Vice versa, some girls from my school were considered average or ugly, but now they've lost weight (or gained and look better for it) and they know how to dress and do their hair, they look pretty hot as a result.
    Exactly. And being sociable/confident makes you more attractive too - like I said, I know a few hunnies of both sexes who usually sit at parties with a sulky expression, aren't generally fun or interesting, are slightly self-centred and do very badly.
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    (Original post by Collette94)
    I'd say, if you want to be more interesting, take up hobbies and be more well-educated, basically try loads of new things and make the most of your life. That will actually give you stuff to talk about with the opposite sex. If you want to be more interesting... be more interesting? It's really not that hard :confused:

    As to being funny, again socialising will help, even just hanging around with your friends who have a great sense of humour will teach you so much about when to crack a joke, the sort of thing people often find funny, etc. Plus knowing how to pick up on social cues also helps.

    I also happen to think "funny" is overrated even if you're a guy. Sure, it helps, but when girls say they want a guy with a sense of humour they don't mean that you have to be always telling funny stories or even making witty remarks but simply that you know how to laugh at something and don't take yourself too seriously. Again, basic social skills. It's more important that a guy has these and is in good shape etc., and a generally nice personality, than that he's the comedian of his bunch of friends.
    Lol to be honest I'm not really too fussed, I'm doing okay since I picked most this stuff up during high school :yy: Just wanted to point out it's not that straightforward or easy.
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    (Original post by So Instinct)
    Lol to be honest I'm not really too fussed, I'm doing okay since I picked most this stuff up during high school :yy: Just wanted to point out it's not that straightforward or easy.
    Yeah I'm aware, I just thought I'd post that generally for everyone reading the thread

    It depends how you define straightforward or easy. I mean, if someone goes to, say a party, with a bitter attitude/dressed like a slob/not talking to anyone or trying to have fun or taking part in drinking games they probably won't get such a great rep or make new friends, but surely stuff like that should be obvious?
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    It's funny when girls say "I've never seen seduction techniques work"- the point is you don't know the guy is using them if he's doing it well.
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    (Original post by Collette94)
    Without being rude, how much have you actually put yourself out there? I've seen a few friends do it and their social skills always improved at least noticeably. Perhaps you're labelling yourself as "below average socially" and this is hurting your self-confidence? Obviously, if you go into a room feeling unconfident it's probably going to affect the way you interact with other people/body language etc. And when you say you've spent years working on it, maybe you're overanalysing? That would probably make it harder for you to socialise
    I've done it plenty (and I've improved plenty), but it's still very difficult (and I expect it will always be) to make it feel natural.

    (Original post by Collette94)
    Also, are you hanging around with the same or similiar groups of people? I used to have a lot of very "academic/intellectual" friends through doing a particular hobby, who knew me from a time I was slightly more introverted. I didn't entirely "click with" and relate to them at the start and I didn't till I moved away and we no longer hung out, either. Some types of people just don't "gel"; I get on perfectly with other extroverted people who are into partying and sports and all that, and I'm fine with that.
    Nope, one of the people I'm closest to is the most confident, out-going person I've met. Most of my friends are more extraverted than I am.

    (Original post by Collette94)
    Nobody "has" to read stuff like "The Game" or "The Rules." As said above, stuff like that will almost certainly get you more of a reputation for being a bit of a weirdo (no offence) than anything else, what with the outlandish stuff they proclaim. But, as to why some people are good with the opposite sex without ever picking up a book like this, again it comes down to social skills. Knowing how to get on with people. Nobody's just "born" that way.
    I meant that they never had to read about anything at all. People that do read books and research it are those who're looking for any means possible to improve themselves. It isn't coming naturally to them so they have to piece it together from somewhere.

    I agree that people aren't born being good at socialising, but I think people definitely are born and influenced in early development towards having a disposition that means they are more likely than others to develop the required skills.
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    It's funny when girls say "I've never seen seduction techniques work"- the point is you don't know the guy is using them if he's doing it well.
    Define "seduction technique".

    If it's something a guy would probably be doing anyway (e.g. being curious about the girl's life, putting your hand on her arm or something), the label is irrelevant as it's hardly some fancy, ground-breaking technique. If it's something he wouldn't (like coming up with a bizarre "neg" or wearing a feather boa and hat in the middle of a club to "peacock"), one will notice.

    Unless you've learned how to Jedi mind trick people. If you do, please PM me, I pay well for this stuff
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    (Original post by Hellz_Bellz!)
    It shouldn't be people's goal in life to be attractive to the opposite sex.
    That's questionable. We have an innate desire to engage in sexual intercourse/reproduce. And in order be successful at this you need to be somewhat attractive to opposite sex. Fair enough some don't feel this need to be at least presentable, but most do.

    It shouldn't be your only goal in life, but I don't see the issue with it being a goal to reach one's optimum attractive level.
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    (Original post by Collette94)
    It's not as simple as that. I'd agree that some people are born with looks that society generally considers more attractive (unfair as it may seem), but nobody can't work on the way they look and become considered at least moderately pretty/handsome. After all, the majority of guys/girls can have long shiny/well-styled hair or an amazing figure or great style if they put enough effort into it.
    Completely agree. Very few people are hideous. With the right styling and effort anyone can look at least decent.

    I get so fed up of "uhhhhhhh I'm so ugly" and then "there's no point making an effort because I'm ugly" yes there is you idiot
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    (Original post by Collette94)
    You don't need anything other than a decent set of social skills and understanding of how people behave.

    Most "techniques" that apparently work come down to self confidence/the placebo effect (which would work anyway) or something else about you being attractive. If an attractive guy chats me up and I'm in the mood, I'll give him my number because he's attractive, not because he might have spent ages reading some ****y seduction book and used a line out of here somewhere in our convo.

    On the other hand, I've read about PUA stuff out of curiosity, and I turn down any guy I spot seeing it (and used to even before I knew about that) because it makes someone come off as a complete sleazeball and speaks volumes about their attitude to girls and general social skills.
    Yes but you realise that that is developing a good personality. Having confidence and balls are very attractive traits, in essence all these "seduction" books are self-help material to help develop you as a person. If you have no self-esteem or confidence and you tremble like a leaf even when a girl is sitting next to you, no amount of excercise will help that. There are great body builders with amazing bodies that have self-confidence issues. Just telling someone with no social skills to just develop them is about as easy as telling a blind man to open his eyes and see. You need to know where to start and what's most important. Not to mention a lot of the PUAs have mountains of experience under their belt, so they know the fastest way to get to where you want, instead of yourself having to do a **** load of trial and error for yourself. They're methods are unorthodox and unfamiliar, but it's still personality development. They learn through habituation to no longer fear rejection to alter their posture, eye contact, touch. This is all personality development, they're not tricks or shortcuts by any means. PUAs have to go through a 6 month pain period of being constantly rejected over and over again, multiple times a night, multiple nights a week. That's not exactly quick or easy.
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    (Original post by Hellz_Bellz!)
    It shouldn't be people's goal in life to be attractive to the opposite sex. People shouldn't strive to obtain a fit, muscular body shape to attract the opposite sex. People certainly shouldn't do a particular hobby to attract the opposite sex.

    Some people love exercise, others hate it. Some people like eating food, some people love it. Some people spend their whole lives reading, others find it a waste of time.

    Don't tell people how to live their lives. Not everyone is so shallow that they only find one type of person attractive.

    And do you know how boring that would be anyway?
    oh but I mean
    oh
    well what
    oh
    okay
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    (Original post by Collette94)
    Now I know attractiveness is subjective. But why do so many people nowadays (most in fact, I would say) try to "fake it" instead of actually trying to be what is generally considered attractive?

    There are so many things people can do to become more attractive to others - learn how to exercise and eat healthily and get in proper shape, improve their social skills and life, take good care of their skin and hair and learn how to style themself, become more well-read, develop a decent personality and hobbies etc. Edit: Read below for advice on how to change this. In other words, become a more well rounded human being. Of course this takes work. Instead, people look for the easy solution and end up wasting time on BS.

    Why do, for example, so many guys waste time looking up fancy pulling techniques, or girls waste hours on make-up and clothing according to the latest "fashion trend"? People don't usually reject others based on this kind of stuff, I have yet to see a guy turn down a girl because her eyeliner was winged or skirt wasn't trendy or a girl turn down a guy because he thought up a chat-up line himself instead of reading it from "The Game" or wasn't using enough "seduction signals," WTF that means. On the other hand, it is no surprise that the most popular people who take care of their looks and are well-educated and socially skilled don't have to read umpteen relationship or "pulling" books in order to get attention from the opposite sex.

    If you are not yet an attractive person, then stop whining about **** like why you don't have a relationship or can't pull people, and stay single and improve your weakness instead of trying to hide it. You can't dodge around being an overweight girl or a puny weakling guy or being a ***** or a sleaze or a creep or having no social skills or being an uninteresting person with no hobbies, work on it instead of trying to run away from your problems. Maybe, then, you'll find that you're secure enough in yourself you don't need to turn obsessing about the opposite sex into a hobby, either.

    Being attractive, and relationships and dating, is not hard, and you do not have to take a damn university degree in it or try to "trick" others into finding you attractive. I am sick of seeing all these threads on here along the lines of "I'm overweight and out of shape, I have no social life and no friends, I have no hobbies and stay indoors all day, I have no job and sit in my room at uni, I have no social skills and keep trying weird pick-up lines/"game" but it never works, the opposite sex are so mean for not going out with me wahhhh."

    Discuss.
    Biuriful post, I wonder how many will actually take heed of your words though.
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    (Original post by Collette94)
    Dat avatar though :coma:
    :sexface: you mirin' the johnson?
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    (Original post by 4RealBlud)
    Yes but you realise that that is developing a good personality. Having confidence and balls are very attractive traits, in essence all these "seduction" books are self-help material to help develop you as a person. If you have no self-esteem or confidence and you tremble like a leaf even when a girl is sitting next to you, no amount of excercise will help that. There are great body builders with amazing bodies that have self-confidence issues. Just telling someone with no social skills to just develop them is about as easy as telling a blind man to open his eyes and see. You need to know where to start and what's most important. Not to mention a lot of the PUAs have mountains of experience under their belt, so they know the fastest way to get to where you want, instead of yourself having to do a **** load of trial and error for yourself. They're methods are unorthodox and unfamiliar, but it's still personality development. They learn through habituation to no longer fear rejection to alter their posture, eye contact, touch. This is all personality development, they're not tricks or shortcuts by any means. PUAs have to go through a 6 month pain period of being constantly rejected over and over again, multiple times a night, multiple nights a week. That's not exactly quick or easy.

    Well said.
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    (Original post by Collette94)

    Don't like interacting with people and would rather hide away at home fantasizing about the opposite sex? You don't deserve a partner till you man/woman the hell up. Be interested in other people, fun (i.e. up for trying anything new that's reasonable) and polite and well-mannered and you can't go far wrong.
    Collette94 after reading your first post, I kind of agree with you to some extent, thought you seem to give instructions rahter than advice. But this quotation above disturbs be a little bit. Many people are introverts, and like being by themselves a lot. That's extremely common. But just because you find it a bit uncomfortable meeting new people, doesn't mean they don't deserve a partner. That's wrong in so many aspects. I'm not agressive saying this, thought I'd let you know since it's easy to misunderstand in written language... But I just had to point this out, because other than that, your advice are good.
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    I totally agree. I'm pretty I confident because that's my personality but it's nice to hearthis


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    I swear my friend dresses like he shops at George. No wonder he's not got laid since 2010.
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    (Original post by Collette94)
    I'll even give you a list (applies to both sexes):

    -If you are overweight/puny/too skinny/haven't exercised since God knows when and hate the thought of healthy eating, sort yourself out and get in shape. Physical attractiveness counts for both sexes. Take up a sport or two (join your local gym or run and train at home if you can't afford it), and eat healthily. A quick Google search will tell you how to do both. Even the NHS site has all the advice you need, there are no excuses. If you have a problem with binge drinking/smoking try to quit, that stuff will ruin your looks.

    -Learn some decent social skills and get yourself a decent bunch of platonic friends. Once you have these, you won't need to learn any stupid Jedi mind tricks to get you THAT PERSON OF YOUR DREAMS 1111. Tip: ditch the "How To Get A Man And Keep Him" or "How To Pull 10000000 Hotty" books, and stop taking advice from magazines like Mens' Health or Cosmo, too (They contain some good advice, but the undiscerning eye probably won't be able to pick them out.) In fact, stop taking ANY advice (even from your friends) as to how to find a partner/pull, and focus solely on improving your general social skills. So how do you develop these?

    Simple: go out and socialise. (Yes, this requires work.) You should actually WANT to be friends with people rather than just shag/date them. Don't know where to find friends? You must have hobbies (if not read below). Join local societies/clubs or those at your college/uni or Meetup or Work. Don't like interacting with people and would rather hide away at home fantasizing about the opposite sex? You don't deserve a partner till you man/woman the hell up. Be interested in other people, fun (i.e. up for trying anything new that's reasonable) and polite and well-mannered and you can't go far wrong.

    -Become properly educated. Spend the time you would spend "learning" about the opposite sex from books (which is probably all bull**** anyway) learning about the real world. Not an essential in that obviously you don't need an A level in everything, but it's good to be able to talk about stuff. Live life to the full, don't be boring - this goes beyond making sure you know basic history and what's going on in the news. Travel, take up hobbies (because you want to and find them interesting - if you don't don't waste your time on them. If you are so unmotivated you don't find jack **** interesting, choose the least uninteresting one you can). Just generally don't hang around at home and have zero to talk about with other people.

    -Learn how to style yourself. Now there is often a world of difference between styling yourself as to be attractive and doing it to follow fashion, ofc there's nothing wrong with the latter but it probably won't be so attractive. You can't go wrong with a decent haircut from a good hairdresser (no need to dye it - natural colour is fine), taking good care of your skin (moisturiser + sunscreen + drinking water and eating healthily), and dressing in a classic/generic way (even just hoodie, T-shirt, jeans and trainers are fine if you aren't scruffy looking and they fit well. Fit is key). Add a nice perfume and bingo.

    -Develop a decent personality. Push yourself, figure out where you're going in life (uni, a job, wherever), set yourself goals, don't be a total slob. That's unattractive to most people. Learn morals. I'm not preaching be Mother Teresa here, but you should have a strong sense of self or you'll never be able to get into a decent relationship.
    I'm not saying you're advice is bad because it's not, it's good advice but I have a decent personality, I have interesting hobbies and interest and I socialise quite a lot and have good social skills.Yet despite having lot of friends, as far as I'm aware, no guys find me that attractive. It's not as easy as 'if you're like this, people will find you attractive.'
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    (Original post by miser)
    I've done it plenty (and I've improved plenty), but it's still very difficult (and I expect it will always be) to make it feel natural.
    See, for some people you're *always* going to be improving, and especially in some cases it will never feel natural and you'll always feel uncomfortable but force yourself to go through with it. The OP is actually giving very good advice in that regard; there's no easy/cheat route and you have to put yourself out there and make yourself to interact with others [as you know, but some don't.] It's certainly better than being alone.
 
 
 
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