Why do schools/colleges have black history week? Watch

Ggmu!
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#21
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And worst of all, they want to lump the contributions of my community with the black community in my city, which is a bit of an insult to us.

All in black history month. What a pathetic idea, abolish it!

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felamaslen
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#22
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(Original post by Heteronym)
Why, of course I am racist. So are you, I'm reluctant to say. We are two rational prejudice-ridden beings.

However, moving further from our innate qualities (or lack thereof), I believe I haven't made myself clear. Whilst you focus on the discourse of the tackling of racism, one to which I do agree, I actually tried to be more practical. There is no such a thing as black community (I even tried to ammend it but putting it in plural form) and it is ignorant to generalise it in such way, but as a whole we might be dealing with some common problems regarding the conditions of said communities - and that is because many of them have suffered from similiar treatments. I am not assigning any values to any of them, but we do have to look at this objectively - and then we will find some very practical and telling data. Why do black people live less and are more often victims of fatal crimes? Why are there more black amongst the poor portion of the society? Why is there a smaller percentage of black people receiving higher education than the percentage of how much they account for in terms of population?

It does sound bad and I'll give you that, but, hey, we are answering to a thread who made the generalisation in the first place. One of the reasons why Black Month History is bull**** is precisely because we can't actually put together a "black history". Just as we can't look at a whole continent (Africa) and treat is a sole country, which we often do.
In my opinion, your questions that you posed regarding black people are not very interesting, in the same way that it wouldn't be very interesting to ask why there are more short academics, say (not that it's necessarily true, but just pretend it was), or more blond architects. These questions are only relevant if you view black people as a group rather than as people, as individuals, regardless of the colour of their skin. I view people as individuals. I could not care less about how many black people vs. white people there are in higher education, poor vs. rich, victims of crime etc., and this is because I do not value the suffering and success of black people or white people, I value of the suffering and success of people.

Which racial prejudice do I possess, may I ask, when I merely judge people based on what I know of them, and not their race?
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Chihiro95
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#23
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(Original post by felamaslen)
There are two kinds of white racist around today in Britain:

1. Proper neo-nazis. These are nasty pieces of work obviously, and nobody trusts them, for good reason.

2. Racists who call themselves "liberal" - ironically, perhaps. These people view "brown people" as genetically inferior, and as such, do not expect them to exhibit sophisticated levels of behaviour. When they notice somebody behaving like a moron, they will be very reluctant to criticise them for it unless it is a white moron. They love to think that all of the world's problems are the fault of "white people" and sincerely enjoy mocking Western civilisation for the most minor of offences (I should note that I and other non-racists view Western civilisation as distinct from "white people"; in the racists' world-view however, they are synonymous - much as they are synonymous in the neo-Nazis' world-view). In these people's eyes, the world is divided into the oppressors - the white people - and the oppressed - the non-white people. When these people hear stupid ideas, they go through a subconscious filter in their brain before judgement, which works something like this:

"How much brown skin is involved?"
Practically none: "how MORONIC is that?!" (e.g. Mormonism)
Only a little bit: "that's a really ridiculous idea, isn't it!" (e.g. Judaism)
Quite a lot: "well, we should respect people's beliefs." (e.g. Pentecostal Christianity)
Massive amounts: "you are a racist if you criticise this idea." (e.g. Islam)

All of the mentioned examples are very bad ideas with no good reasons for belief whatsoever, factually at least. Racists, however, don't see it that way.

This second category of racist seems to be far more insidious and far more numerous in fact, than the former, and I suspect that you are dangerously close to being in it
.
Pardon me? You have the audacity of calling ME a racist? How does pointing out that racism still exists (I know, I've been on the receiving end of it far too often) equate to me having an innate prejudice? A response to 'colourblindness' which devalues people's experiences of racism is in no way saying that I hate white people.

Also, I have never once utilised any of your examples.
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felamaslen
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(Original post by Chihiro95)
Pardon me? You have the audacity of calling ME a racist? How does pointing out that racism still exists (I know, I've been on the receiving end of it far too often) equate to me having an innate prejudice? A response to 'colourblindness' which devalues people's experiences of racism is in no way saying that I hate white people.

Also, I have never once utilised any of your examples.
I never actually said you were in that group, merely that I suspected you were dangerously close to being in it. What I'm saying essentially is that in order to get rid of racism, we need to forget about race. Our society needs to be based on ideas which transcend race - things like freedom, democracy, liberalism - otherwise racism is just going to come back. The fuel which fires it is partly well-meaning people who are stuck in the racist world, and in order to escape from that we need to detach race from our understanding and treatment of people full stop.
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Chihiro95
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(Original post by felamaslen)
I never actually said you were in that group, merely that I suspected you were dangerously close to being in it. What I'm saying essentially is that in order to get rid of racism, we need to forget about race. Our society needs to be based on ideas which transcend race - things like freedom, democracy, liberalism - otherwise racism is just going to come back. The fuel which fires it is partly well-meaning people who are stuck in the racist world, and in order to escape from that we need to detach race from our understanding and treatment of people full stop.
We do live in a racist world, unless the racist bullying I endured at secondary school was a hallucination of mine. Racism never went away.

That kind of attitude shoves real racism-and I'm not taking about abstract 'systemic racism'- under the carpet and allows racism to thrive. It takes away platforms for victims of racism to speak out about it. What example would we be setting if victims couldn't talk about racism but racists could continue sharing their views?
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felamaslen
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(Original post by Chihiro95)
We do live in a racist world, unless the racist bullying I endured at secondary school was a hallucination of mine. Racism never went away.

That kind of attitude shoves real racism-and I'm not taking about abstract 'systemic racism'- under the carpet and allows racism to thrive. It takes away platforms for victims of racism to speak out about it. What example would we be setting if victims couldn't talk about racism but racists could continue sharing their views?
That's not what I'm saying at all. We should all complain if we see racism, but the attitude to the person complaining should not depend on their race. We only live in a racist world because people keep peddling the idea that racial groups need protecting or treating differently as a group.
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CherryCherryBoomBoom
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#27
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I don't think about it too deeply myself, but I've heard other people answer that question with something like "because all the other 11 months of the year are dedicated to white history" :dontknow:
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Chihiro95
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#28
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(Original post by felamaslen)
That's not what I'm saying at all. We should all complain if we see racism, but the attitude to the person complaining should not depend on their race. We only live in a racist world because people keep peddling the idea that racial groups need protecting or treating differently as a group.
Of course not. A white person on the receiving end of discrimination should get as much support as a poc. But who's to say that poc are protected? As a poc in the UK, I've never felt I was treated with kid gloves or extra support, more the opposite actually.

I think it's the reinforced 'otherness' of poc despite having lived in this country for decades and the actions of some industries that suggests preferential treatment of Caucasians.
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felamaslen
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#29
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(Original post by Chihiro95)
Of course not. A white person on the receiving end of discrimination should get as much support as a poc. But who's to say that poc are protected? As a poc in the UK, I've never felt I was treated with kid gloves or extra support, more the opposite actually.

I think it's the reinforced 'otherness' of poc despite having lived in this country for decades and the actions of some industries that suggests preferential treatment of Caucasians.
Perhaps the fact that you refer to all non-white people as "poc"s is indicative of something. We must stop thinking of ourselves in terms of the colour of our skin. Only then will we be free from racism.
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Chihiro95
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#30
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(Original post by felamaslen)
Perhaps the fact that you refer to all non-white people as "poc"s is indicative of something. We must stop thinking of ourselves in terms of the colour of our skin. Only then will we be free from racism.
See, I think we should think of ourselves in terms of our skin, features, likes, dislikes and everything else that makes us, us. I don't think race should hold as much weight as it currently does but neither do I think it should be totally ignored because it is a part of who we are.

I don't think eradicating racism is as simple as you suggest and I also don't see how using the the label 'poc' is any different from your usage of 'racial groups'.
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Jjj90
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#31
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To celebrate and to educate about the history of black people in the western world...

The history of black people doesn't directly correlate with that of white people, it isn't racist, it is a matter of fact.

Do you have a problem with Jewish history being taught separately too?

More liberal bull****. It's getting very very tiring on this site.
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felamaslen
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(Original post by Jjj90)
To celebrate and to educate about the history of black people in the western world...

The history of black people doesn't directly correlate with that of white people, it isn't racist, it is a matter of fact.

Do you have a problem with Jewish history being taught separately too?

More liberal bull****. It's getting very very tiring on this site.
There is not a Jewish history month, so what is the comparison?
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Heteronym
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#33
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(Original post by felamaslen)
In my opinion, your questions that you posed regarding black people are not very interesting, in the same way that it wouldn't be very interesting to ask why there are more short academics, say (not that it's necessarily true, but just pretend it was), or more blond architects. These questions are only relevant if you view black people as a group rather than as people, as individuals, regardless of the colour of their skin. I view people as individuals. I could not care less about how many black people vs. white people there are in higher education, poor vs. rich, victims of crime etc., and this is because I do not value the suffering and success of black people or white people, I value of the suffering and success of people.

Which racial prejudice do I possess, may I ask, when I merely judge people based on what I know of them, and not their race?
No, these are not the same types of question. Maybe we have different views on the situation because in my country, Brazil, the black population is aggressively under-representated in any privileged portion of the society (i.e universities, public sector, CEOs, doctors, lawyers etc.), a state imparted by a COMMON treatment bestowed upon all of them, regardless of the cultural differences that they might present. While I have never seen a blond-haired person suffer any kind of abuse or special treatment solely because of this particular trait, I can safely say that I have seen the black in one's skin steer the treatment one gets.

I'm afraid you are being too romantic. I long for the day when skin color means the same as hair color (though being a redheaded still can put you in some trouble these days), but the sheer reality is that it is not seen this way. We cannot ignore these effects and their practical implications.

I live in a university town and I'm constantly bewildered at how few black people I see going to the campus. Through all my life, I've never seen an black doctor, nor a black lawyer. If you will, I can present you with some frightening statitics regarding black's health, income and participation in the job market here in Brazil. Politically speaking, they CAN be seen as a group because of what they inherited and how this inheritance influences their lives today. They are born in disadvantage, at least here, so I guess we can overlook the onus of treating individuals as a group if this will benefit said individuals.

Why, I obviously don't know you, but, if like me, you're a human, they, yes, you're a racist. Or you'll show racist attitudes sometime in your life. It is instinctive, really. I don't blame you, but do take my advice and realise our visions will always be flawed and hindered due the fact that we cannot overthrow the weight of purely being a human being.
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felamaslen
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(Original post by Heteronym)
No, these are not the same types of question. Maybe we have different views on the situation because in my country, Brazil, the black population is aggressively under-representated in any privileged portion of the society (i.e universities, public sector, CEOs, doctors, lawyers etc.), a state imparted by a COMMON treatment bestowed upon all of them, regardless of the cultural differences that they might present. While I have never seen a blond-haired person suffer any kind of abuse or special treatment solely because of this particular trait, I can safely say that I have seen the black in one's skin steer the treatment one gets.

I'm afraid you are being too romantic. I long for the day when skin color means the same as hair color (though being a redheaded still can put you in some trouble these days), but the sheer reality is that it is not seen this way. We cannot ignore these effects and their practical implications.

I live in a university town and I'm constantly bewildered at how few black people I see going to the campus. Through all my life, I've never seen an black doctor, nor a black lawyer. If you will, I can present you with some frightening statitics regarding black's health, income and participation in the job market here in Brazil. Politically speaking, they CAN be seen as a group because of what they inherited and how this inheritance influences their lives today. They are born in disadvantage, at least here, so I guess we can overlook the onus of treating individuals as a group if this will benefit said individuals.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. My opinion is that it is not of anyone's interest - unless they are a racist - whether or not black people (or any other race) is under- or over-represented in any field. Why does it matter what the colour of the skin is of the doctor who treats you, for example?
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Heteronym
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(Original post by felamaslen)
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. My opinion is that it is not of anyone's interest - unless they are a racist - whether or not black people (or any other race) is under- or over-represented in any field. Why does it matter what the colour of the skin is of the doctor who treats you, for example?
It does not matter to me, but don't you think it is quite telling the fact that I never saw a black doctor (a known position of certain status in pretty much every society)? Nor a black person in almost any kind of task that requires someone fully educated.

It would be quite cynical and dangerous to ignore this fact. You can't overlook the demography of a country. It is a statistically proven fact that there are MANY more blacks amongst the poorest part of brazilian society, and, as a consequence, much less of them in the richest fraction. Why do you think that is? And I'm not talking about the inheritance of slavery per se, but about the fact that many of those black people are compelled to stay in this situation through many kinds of oppression, ranging from social to political. They ARE born in disadvantage, so to launch them onto a state where they can thrive and be in the same position as other communities is a country's affair and duty. Being derelict to it is absurd.

It cannot be a coincidence to find such data and encounter such characteristics regarding the black's participation in society.
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Jjj90
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(Original post by felamaslen)
There is not a Jewish history month, so what is the comparison?
There are Jewish History degrees. So of course there is a comparison. By these standards we shouldn't have Jewish history degrees because it somehow... I dunno... segregates a portion of society?? Lunacy.
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felamaslen
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(Original post by Heteronym)
It does not matter to me, but don't you think it is quite telling the fact that I never saw a black doctor (a known position of certain status in pretty much every society)? Nor a black person in almost any kind of task that requires someone fully educated.

It would be quite cynical and dangerous to ignore this fact. You can't overlook the demography of a country. It is a statistically proven fact that there are MANY more blacks amongst the poorest part of brazilian society, and, as a consequence, much less of them in the richest fraction. Why do you think that is? And I'm not talking about the inheritance of slavery per se, but about the fact that many of those black people are compelled to stay in this situation through many kinds of oppression, ranging from social to political. They ARE born in disadvantage, so to launch them onto a state where they can thrive and be in the same position as other communities is a country's affair and duty. Being derelict to it is absurd.

It cannot be a coincidence to find such data and encounter such characteristics regarding the black's participation in society.
The only way you can sort this problem out is, I maintain, by treating people equally, as individuals, on their own merit. If people who happen to be black are more likely not to want to become doctors, then it isn't for the State or whoever to decide that "more black people MUST be doctors!". Coercion is not the way forward.
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felamaslen
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(Original post by Jjj90)
There are Jewish History degrees. So of course there is a comparison. By these standards we shouldn't have Jewish history degrees because it somehow... I dunno... segregates a portion of society?? Lunacy.
That would be lunacy, but I have nothing against degrees studying certain ethnic groups, religious groups etc. I have something against treating people differently based on their race. Again, where is the comparison?
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Heteronym
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You're missing the point. It is not because they do not want to become doctors, but because more often than not they just CAN'T! They are not in a position where they can have access to higher education and become qualified professionals. It's not their choice. In fact, the whole problem is their lack of choice.

They get paid less, they strive to find jobs (even the ones who are qualified), they are seen as less trustworthy, they suffer hate crimes or are just automatically scrutinised in every situation when facing a white person. As I said: they are born in disadvantage. Being this the case, treating them as the ones who do not face such hassle could hardy be called "equality".
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Jjj90
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(Original post by felamaslen)
That would be lunacy, but I have nothing against degrees studying certain ethnic groups, religious groups etc. I have something against treating people differently based on their race. Again, where is the comparison?
Who is being treated differently?!?!?!
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