David Blunkett in riot warning over Roma migrants Watch

Apocrypha
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#21
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#21
(Original post by InnerTemple)
That's a topic of slight contention. The Roma group has a fairly complex and unclear history. The reason it is so unclear is because there is hardly any documentary evidence concerning their past. This is mainly down to the Roma people being adverse to keeping records.

However, Roma (along with Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers) have protection under the Race Relations Act and are recognised as a minority ethnic group.

The problems seen today with Romany Gypsies and the Roma are all down to the actions of past Governments. At the risk of going wildly off topic, I'll explain in brief...

In the past, the UK Government considered Gypsies to be vagrants - a problem which had to be cured. If you go way back to the 1500s, there were laws making it illegal to be a Gypsy - a crime punishable by death. Housing for Gypsies has been the largest problem. In 1960, a ban was put on Gypsies from being able to buy their own land and settle there, meaning that they were forced to live illegally. Then in 1968, Local Authorities were obligated to provide land for Gypsies to live on. However, the legislation requiring this was never fully enforced and Local Authorities were allowed to get away with offering sites to Gypsies which were not really fit for purpose.

In 1994, the Government removed the obligation for Local Authorities to provide land. This left many Gypsies homeless, and with 97% of planning applications submitted by Gypsies being refused, most of the homeless faced the prospect of not being able to find a legal settlement any time soon.

Essentially, the Roma and Romany Gypsy population has always been seen as outcasts. All the various Acts were an effort to force them to become a bit more 'normal.' But all they done was create an isolated community and problems further down the line.

They are one of the most persecuted groups in history and have suffered a lot in the past. The Commission for Racial Equality say that racism directed to Roma and Romany Gypsies is the last form of 'respectable racism' around. It isn't just the public which are at fault, but Local Authorities and Government.
Lalala bring them to England, they can all come, you see what happens good unbiassed sir.

Ask the Czechs, Slovenians or any other country trying to put up with them, the Czechs built them expensive accomodation, they stripped it of all valuables and moved onto somewhere else.
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Jai Paul
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#22
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#22
Don't worry, I'd believe him...

Blunkett can see a riot coming from miles away....


I'll get my coat
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deehee
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
Vandalism and criminal activity does seem to follow them, where I live such crimes are fairly low until a band of travellers drops by and takes over a park and litters everywhere.

(Original post by Zürich)
Maybe it is racist but any honest person knows criminality is through the roof among gypsies. If you heard that a family of ten gypsies were moving in down the street you would be suspicious of them and deep down resent their presence and you know it.
Do have also views on other ethnic groups in Britain ?? Or just Roma gypsies.
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Lady Comstock
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#24
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(Original post by InnerTemple)
Well you are talking to someone who lives close to Dale Farm and about a 5 minute drive from a legal gypsy site. I work in London. So I think I am in the real world, cheers.

The rest of your post is just tosh and prejudice. Remember what I said above: "a phone box is vandalised - probably the Gypsies. Your neighbour's house is broken into - probably the Gypsies."

Well you added another one - "see someone get pick pocketed - probably the Gypsies."
So, do you think all stereotypes regarding cultures/communities are invalid? What about certain religious communities being more intolerant of homosexuals than others, for instance?
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Soft Cat
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#25
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#25
Eugh gypsies
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InnerTemple
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Lady Comstock)
So, do you think all stereotypes regarding cultures/communities are invalid? What about certain religious communities being more intolerant of homosexuals than others, for instance?
Yes I do believe that all stereotypes are invalid. That's if we are agreed that a stereotype is an over simplified, sometimes false, view. In which case, by definition, I'd say any stereotype is invalid as far as describing a people, race, community, etc is concerned.
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InnerTemple
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#27
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
Interesting. So, it's invalid to claim that Hindus are more likely to wear the sari than Christians in Britain?
I think there is a difference between a generalisation based upon fact and a generalisation with no factual foundation whatsoever or, indeed, some evidence to the contrary.

That's the angle I am getting at - my answer in the above post is, to be frank, rubbish.
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InnerTemple
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#28
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
That's fair enough and I pretty much agree. So if a few respectable polls or studies say that x community is more likely to do y than z community, you would be more open to accepting it within a generalised statement?
I'll be a bad sport and reserve my position on this one.

I'd always be very careful about accepting generalised statements.
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Yi-Ge-Ningderen
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#29
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(Original post by InnerTemple)
I'll be a bad sport and reserve my position on this one.

I'd always be very careful about accepting generalised statements.
You appear to be a very naïve and idiotic person.
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Vlad_Tepes
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#30
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#30
(Original post by deehee)
That is irrelevant.

You either want 3 million Romanians/Bulgarians coming here next year or you don't.
There you go...somebody has been reading Daily Mail and Daily Express lately...By the way, not all the Romanians/Bulgarians are Gypsies, in fact the Gypsy community is rather insignificant in terms of numbers in both countries, with other more significant minorities.
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Zürich
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#31
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(Original post by deehee)
Do have also views on other ethnic groups in Britain ?? Or just Roma gypsies.
Well British Asians tend to over-achieve in education generally, just for example. If you told me that this wasnt true or a stereotype then I'd say Ive seen it with my own eyes, without evening looking for the data which would also back it up.


Roma gypsies do commit a hugely disproportionate amount of crime, any honest person will admit this.
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caravaggio2
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#32
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(Original post by Zürich)
Well British Asians tend to over-achieve in education generally, just for example. If you told me that this wasnt true or a stereotype then I'd say Ive seen it with my own eyes, without evening looking for the data which would also back it up.


Roma gypsies do commit a hugely disproportionate amount of crime, any honest person will admit this.
Any honest person, yes. But anybody who is dishonest enough to allow themselves to become crippled by Leftist/Marxist cultural dogma wouldn't. Nothing wrong with having a political standpoint, whether right or left, but have the honesty to admit what is staring us in the face.
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Zürich
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#33
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(Original post by Vlad_Tepes)
There you go...somebody has been reading Daily Mail and Daily Express lately...By the way, not all the Romanians/Bulgarians are Gypsies, in fact the Gypsy community is rather insignificant in terms of numbers in both countries, with other more significant minorities.
Even if 20% of migrants are gypsies then you're talking about a large group of people who intend to send women and children begging and pickpocketing on the street etc. None of the individuals I see in Westminster(or on the Paris metro for example) every week doing this are non-Roma, none.
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Endo
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#34
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Why are people so banal and obfuscatory when it comes to epistemology of the terrifying 'R-Word'. It lurches from the banal - petty arguments on what's racist, what's isn't via deciding whether the apparently discriminated against population could correctly be classified AS a race. Most often, not, but that's irrelevant. We all know the conception behind it and what is meant. Racism is the byword for discrimination based on a particular class/group/set/type of people - or the flawed moral posturing.

Views are immediatly discredited on the basis of the absurdity of proclamations about individuals based on race and whilst I agree there is less merit to these claims than most (because of the enormous scope for variety in any one race) I do not agree that such debates are entirely moot, you just need to shift your perspective on racism slightly, because whilst qualifications of people's actions and behaviours based on race lacks merit, the influence of a person's culture is almost universal in an individual's actions and behaviours, consciously or otherwise. And what is a person's culture influenced by? Their heritage, history, memory and knowledge as based on the combination of their own experiences, their peers and their communities be they local, urban, county, state or national. And whilst that smetimes leaves a pool of determinative influences made up of people largely or wholly of the same race that should be treated as the incidental fact that it is: relating to the question of the communal and the individual, but not informing (never mind answering) it.
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Vlad_Tepes
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Zürich)
Even if 20% of migrants are gypsies then you're talking about a large group of people who intend to send women and children begging and pickpocketing on the street etc. None of the individuals I see in Westminster(or on the Paris metro for example) every week doing this are non-Roma, none.


Wrong my friend...the Gypsies who come to UK with that purpose are already here simply because they don't need a visa, they don't need any papers to allow them to do it... The Gypsies, the Romanians and Bulgarian criminals are already here because they don't need formalities to commit crimes... None of the ones doing the same in Paris have any papers. The Romanian/Bulgarian people with employment and earning an honest living go unnoticed by anybody simply because they don't cause any trouble to anybody.


PS: 20% means 600.000 people...so then you think 70% of the gypsies will come to UK?
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Zürich
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Vlad_Tepes)
Wrong my friend...the Gypsies who come to UK with that purpose are already here simply because they don't need a visa, they don't need any papers to allow them to do it... The Gypsies, the Romanians and Bulgarian criminals are already here because they don't need formalities to commit crimes... None of the ones doing the same in Paris have any papers. The Romanian/Bulgarian people with employment and earning an honest living go unnoticed by anybody simply because they don't cause any trouble to anybody.


PS: 20% means 600.000 people...so then you think 70% of the gypsies will come to UK?
That's a fair point, but there are benefit advantages that gypsies will be attracted by.

In general I think Romanians/Bulgarians are great hard working people who dont cause any problems. My brother works with loads of Romanians and couldnt speak more highly about them

The only issue are those who are completely adverse to acceptable behaviour, and those tend to be gypsies.
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InnerTemple
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#37
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(Original post by Yi-Ge-Ningderen)
You appear to be a very naïve and idiotic person.
Do you want to justify that comment?
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deehee
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#38
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#38
All races commit pickpocketing etc.
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thoyub
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#39
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It will turn into riots but it's already happening on a smaller scale in many other areas and not just to roma migrants. I have observed several incidents of racial hate even when I was at school and if we do have this dreadful opening of the floodgates, it will inevitably get worse.
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elohssa
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#40
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(Original post by Yi-Ge-Ningderen)
You appear to be a very naïve and idiotic person.
LOL.
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