Why are creative degrees less respected?
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Original post by techno-thriller
Well, arts don't contribute much to human progression compared to maths and science, that why I think they are less respected
Can't you argue the fact that without movies, books, music and comedy, the world today would be incredibly drab? I'm a mathematically orientated person, but you can't just say the arts are worthless.
I think it's more the fact that they aren't really study-able subjects; you really do need a natural talent for it. Most of the people I know studying art are just doing it because it's a doss subject, not because they're passionate about it. The sciences are too difficult to take if you don't enjoy and understand what you're doing.
Original post by Occams Chainsaw
You try composing something or writing a poem. Failing that, get a physicist to do it.
how is a poem going to help people and civilisation? you don't need a degree to write a poem.
Original post by AreebWithaHat
Music, film etc should be self taught. I feel sorry for those who waste fees on those degrees and 99% of the time they go into the checkout tills at Asda.
I think academic study of music is useful, particularly if you count conservatoires in that. Without conservatoires poorer kids would never be able to afford tuition from the very best in the field, and there's no doubt being taught be an absolute master helps them improve more than practice alone can.
Original post by Hellz_Bellz!
I don't think it's wasting fees to do a subject you love and are good at. Choosing a degree is hard for people. I mean if someone is brilliantly creative but is bad at and hates science, why should they apply to do a science they're going to hate just because of the better job prospects - which is not always true anyway, my brother has a degree in a science and is working in a supermarket.
And I could argue that all UK students (apart from Scots, damn them) are wasting fees when they could get that education for free in Europe
And I could argue that all UK students (apart from Scots, damn them) are wasting fees when they could get that education for free in Europe
what are you on about mate? i will wreck you, i know where you live. don't question my opinions again.
I think for a lot of 'creative degrees', you could just study them as a hobby instead of getting into debt just to get the degree. And of course there are exceptions, but in general science degrees are more sought out by employers.
Original post by AreebWithaHat
how is a poem going to help people and civilisation? you don't need a degree to write a poem.
Come off it! Studying a subject to bachelors level is hardly going to help people and civilization. How many people who study physics at undergrad do you think actually contribute? I'd argue, a small percentage.
Original post by Occams Chainsaw
Come off it! Studying a subject to bachelors level is hardly going to help people and civilization. How many people who study physics at undergrad do you think actually contribute? I'd argue, a small percentage.
many will become engineers, scientists etc which will contribute to society.
my point is science contributes more to society than creative subjects, this is the reason why creative subjects are less respected.
Original post by AreebWithaHat
what are you on about mate? i will wreck you, i know where you live. don't question my opinions again.
Awesome arguement I'll have to borrow that one
Original post by AreebWithaHat
many will become engineers, scientists etc which will contribute to society.
my point is science contributes more to society than creative subjects, this is the reason why creative subjects are less respected.
my point is science contributes more to society than creative subjects, this is the reason why creative subjects are less respected.
But my point is that if you only plan to study it at such a low level (in which you are hardly going to contribute anything useful) then why not study something equally as useless like music?
Original post by AreebWithaHat
what are you on about mate? i will wreck you, i know where you live. don't question my opinions again.
I think for a lot of 'creative degrees', you could just study them as a hobby instead of getting into debt just to get the degree. And of course there are exceptions, but in general science degrees are more sought out by employers.
I think for a lot of 'creative degrees', you could just study them as a hobby instead of getting into debt just to get the degree. And of course there are exceptions, but in general science degrees are more sought out by employers.
You wish.
Original post by Occams Chainsaw
You try composing something or writing a poem. Failing that, get a physicist to do it.
mountains of molecules
each stupidly minding its own business
trillions apart
yet forming white surf in unison
Ages on ages
before any eyes could see
year after year
thunderously pounding the shore as now.
For whom, for what?
On a dead planet
with no life to entertain.
Never at rest
tortured by energy
wasted prodigiously by the Sun
poured into space.
A mite makes the sea roar.
Deep in the sea
all molecules repeat
the patterns of one another
till complex new ones are formed.
They make others like themselves
and a new dance starts.
Growing in size and complexity
living things
masses of atoms
DNA, protein
dancing a pattern ever more intricate.
Out of the cradle
onto dry land
here it is
standing:
atoms with consciousness;
matter with curiosity.
Stands at the sea,
wonders at wondering: I
a universe of atoms
an atom in the Universe."
It it should be noted that I'm not taking any sides in this argument at the moment, but don't go dissing us physicists! We can be artistic too!
(edited 10 years ago)
Because society at the moment only values one area of intelligence and neglects others. Anything that can't eventually be used to contribute to the economy or make money for shareholders, is going to get less respect an funding. At schools and universities business and science degrees are given the spot light.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by King Hotpie
[INDENT]"There are the rushing waves
mountains of molecules
each stupidly minding its own business
trillions apart
yet forming white surf in unison
Ages on ages
before any eyes could see
year after year
thunderously pounding the shore as now.
For whom, for what?
On a dead planet
with no life to entertain.
Never at rest
tortured by energy
wasted prodigiously by the Sun
poured into space.
A mite makes the sea roar.
Deep in the sea
all molecules repeat
the patterns of one another
till complex new ones are formed.
They make others like themselves
and a new dance starts.
Growing in size and complexity
living things
masses of atoms
DNA, protein
dancing a pattern ever more intricate.
Out of the cradle
onto dry land
here it is
standing:
atoms with consciousness;
matter with curiosity.
Stands at the sea,
wonders at wondering: I
a universe of atoms
an atom in the Universe."
It it should be noted that I'm not taking any sides in this argument at the moment, but don't go dissing us physicists! We can be artistic too!
[/INDENT]
mountains of molecules
each stupidly minding its own business
trillions apart
yet forming white surf in unison
Ages on ages
before any eyes could see
year after year
thunderously pounding the shore as now.
For whom, for what?
On a dead planet
with no life to entertain.
Never at rest
tortured by energy
wasted prodigiously by the Sun
poured into space.
A mite makes the sea roar.
Deep in the sea
all molecules repeat
the patterns of one another
till complex new ones are formed.
They make others like themselves
and a new dance starts.
Growing in size and complexity
living things
masses of atoms
DNA, protein
dancing a pattern ever more intricate.
Out of the cradle
onto dry land
here it is
standing:
atoms with consciousness;
matter with curiosity.
Stands at the sea,
wonders at wondering: I
a universe of atoms
an atom in the Universe."
It it should be noted that I'm not taking any sides in this argument at the moment, but don't go dissing us physicists! We can be artistic too!
[/INDENT]
I'm going to study physics next year. My point being that it is harder than it looks!
I appreciate your point though! Whether your poem is good or not is to be decided!
Original post by Occams Chainsaw
But my point is that if you only plan to study it at such a low level (in which you are hardly going to contribute anything useful) then why not study something equally as useless like music?
I'm not picking one side or the other. your op asked why are creative degrees less respected, I'm just giving you some common reasons (I'm not necessarily saying I agree with them).
1) Science students will contribute more than arts students to society. Now I'm not saying every scientist will cure cancer or design building but many will do. They become engineers, doctors, research cancer etc etc. An arts student on the other hand is not going to contribute as much, if anything at all. Now there is the whole 'culture aspect' i.e music we listen to, films we watch but many of these actors and musicians did not have a degree in their respective fields. They honed their talents, auditioned and tried to get recognised.
2) I know these degrees are supposedly academic. But the general public will always assume a music degree is for some middle class student poncing about playing a bit of clarinet and going home.
3) These creative degrees are less centred around objective academic criteria and more around subjective 'talent'. It's much easier to say the Physicist at Oxford is an intelligent guy than the guy at that Music academy is a good singer.
Once again, your OP asked why are these degrees less respected and I am answering the question. I am not saying that one degree is worth more than the other (although I appreciate I was trolling a bit at first).
Original post by Occams Chainsaw
I'm going to study physics next year. My point being that it is harder than it looks!
I appreciate your point though! Whether your poem is good or not is to be decided!
I appreciate your point though! Whether your poem is good or not is to be decided!
Not my poem, it's Feynmans. I admittedly, am very unartistic, I acknowledge that the vast majority of physicsists, or indeed people, couldn't write a particularly good poem!
Original post by Book_Lover_23
How is it a waste of money? The majority of musicians and artists earn FAR more than physicists or such like. They're earning millions and physicists are on what, £30k a year? Who picked the better degree? Yes there's an element of luck in there, as there's no guarantee they'll become a successful artist. But if they want to try and devote their life to their hobby, why shouldn't they pursue a degree in it?
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Are you being serious here? You're saying the majority of artists and musicians are earning more than physicists?
Get real mate.
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Original post by AreebWithaHat
many will become engineers, scientists etc which will contribute to society.
my point is science contributes more to society than creative subjects, this is the reason why creative subjects are less respected.
my point is science contributes more to society than creative subjects, this is the reason why creative subjects are less respected.
Depends how you define creative. I remember sitting in my first lecture and being told 'People will tell you Law is logical and about finding logical solutions to problems. Those people are talking horse****. This subject is creative, it is about finding creative solutions, because creativity solves something, logic just kicks it down the road until the next prick comes along. If you're not prepared to think creatively about this subject then you may as well leave now'.
People feel more qualified to pass judgement on things they think they understand than those which they do not. For some people being creative comes more naturally than mathematical equations, and vice versa.
The social sciences, professions (other than medicine) and philosophy also sometimes suffer from the same ignorant denigration, although they're seen as more respectable.
Also, anything barring some professions like medicine can be studied outside of university. You don't need a university to study theoretical physics or economics. In some cases it makes sense, but university being 'required' is just the outcome of the government trying to use universities as means of training people to be good wage-earners, rather the purely academic pursuits universities are intended for. I guess it works well for the professors who get paid bundles for teaching a few hours a week and then get to pursue their own research.
Most people think of degrees as investments (based on highly selective university statistics) but in fact they are ordinarily treated as consumption products, usually paid for by other people, too, and not just one's parents. That is fine but one should not be under the delusion that they are always an 'investment', or a good one, at that. Of course, I am not of the opinion that these degrees should be subsidised, so to me the whole thing is a matter of personal preferences and aptitudes. Also, I think if anything gets less 'respect' than degrees, it is the trades, which is a pity.
The social sciences, professions (other than medicine) and philosophy also sometimes suffer from the same ignorant denigration, although they're seen as more respectable.
Also, anything barring some professions like medicine can be studied outside of university. You don't need a university to study theoretical physics or economics. In some cases it makes sense, but university being 'required' is just the outcome of the government trying to use universities as means of training people to be good wage-earners, rather the purely academic pursuits universities are intended for. I guess it works well for the professors who get paid bundles for teaching a few hours a week and then get to pursue their own research.
Most people think of degrees as investments (based on highly selective university statistics) but in fact they are ordinarily treated as consumption products, usually paid for by other people, too, and not just one's parents. That is fine but one should not be under the delusion that they are always an 'investment', or a good one, at that. Of course, I am not of the opinion that these degrees should be subsidised, so to me the whole thing is a matter of personal preferences and aptitudes. Also, I think if anything gets less 'respect' than degrees, it is the trades, which is a pity.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Bloxorus
Are you being serious here? You're saying the majority of artists and musicians are earning more than physicists?
Get real mate.
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Get real mate.
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lol we should have done a music degree, we'd be ballin' mate
Original post by Occams Chainsaw
Surely you agree that art and music are huge parts of human existence and culture. By studying those and being in those fields professionally you would be improving/adding to our culture and lives.
So is the reason that Architecture is more respected because it has a more obvious impact on our lives?
FYI: I am going to study physics and philosophy so I do kind of understand what you mean but I think that the prejudice towards those subjects is sometimes unfair. I just wanted some opinions on why my hobbies are not as respected
So is the reason that Architecture is more respected because it has a more obvious impact on our lives?
FYI: I am going to study physics and philosophy so I do kind of understand what you mean but I think that the prejudice towards those subjects is sometimes unfair. I just wanted some opinions on why my hobbies are not as respected
How many popular musicians who took a music degree do you know?
How many popular artists who took an art degree do you know?
Now how many famous physicists who took a physics degree do you know..?
Original post by Book_Lover_23
...
I disagree with much of what you say.
I totally agree - anyone has the ability to learn maths or physics or something, but you need to be born with natural talent in order to paint or write or play music.
The ability to paint, write literature or play music can be acquired - this is just outright false. Unless, of course, you are comparing the intellect of an average year 11 physics student to that of Mozart - which is absurd.
Original post by Book_Lover_23
How is it a waste of money? The majority of musicians and artists earn FAR more than physicists or such like. They're earning millions and physicists are on what, £30k a year? Who picked the better degree? Yes there's an element of luck in there, as there's no guarantee they'll become a successful artist.
That's the point, it is extremely unlikely that you will become a famous musician or an artist after finishing your degree. You cannot make that argument without considering what the probability of attaining that level of success is - it only makes sense to deal with averages. You must realise why it is absurd to compare the top 1% of entertainers to, probably, 100% of research physicists?
But if they want to try and devote their life to their hobby, why shouldn't they pursue a degree in it?
I'm not taking any sides here, just answering the OP, but the general public may not deem it to be worth the £9k you have to fork over for employment prospects significantly less than those of a scientist's.
Yes but you need someone to teach you to ride a bike or drive a car, just like you'd need someone to teach you to play an instrument. And you don't necessarily need taught the complex content in science subjects - textbooks explain it the same way the teacher does.
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You're not a science student, are you? Textbooks can be vague, concepts can be hard to grasp, it is extremely useful to have a good teacher - not only to clarify your doubts but to stretch you to your limits.
ETA: Just so I don't derail this thread too much, I think they aren't as respected by the general public for a variety of reasons:
1) The course itself doesn't teach much to the majority of students that will help them contribute to society, as opposed to degrees which lead you into a vocation (medicine, engineering, etc...)
2) There is a preconception in the general public that maths/ physics are very difficult, most likely because they struggled at it at school/ stereotypes of scientists with mad hair and lab coats writing out big, nasty looking equations on black boards and just don't think arts degrees are as difficult.
(edited 10 years ago)
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