A mistake by England to go down the foreign manager route? Watch

CameronHayward
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#21
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#21
(Original post by flabbyjoe)
To be honest, I can only think of 1 country that had a better squad than us during the 2002 world cup. That would be Brazil.
well that explains why we were knocked out by Brazil then :P
We had the likes of Danny Mills, Trevor Sinclair and Nicky Butt starting that game
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9MmBulletz
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#22
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#22
Hardly.
England haven't been to a World Cup semi-final since 1990
Haven't been to a Euro semi-final since 1996
Haven't been to a final for 47 years

I'm not buying this golden generation thing much. I agree that Sven should've played Scholes more centrally, while Lampard and Gerrard can't both play together because they do the same thing. Gerrard tries the Hollywood pass too much and gives the ball away too much.

Sven got us to a World Cup quarter final that we lost to the eventual winners (Brazil 2002) and then we lost to the hosts in the Euros on penalties and again to the same team in the World Cup quarter finals where we played extra time with 10 men. Hardly the end of the world when you consider that Brazil and Portugal are pretty good teams.

With Capello, he was a let-down in the World Cup admittedly. The Germany match would have played out differently had Lampard's goal counted. Going into half time 2-1 down when it should be 2-2 makes a huge difference psychologically especially when you think you've been hard done by. It's no shame to lose to Germany but they mugged us off completely.

In the Euros, I remember Alan Hansen going on about how "ordinary" Italy were. Not that I consider Alan's opinion too highly, but it doesn't take much effort to realise how uneducated he can appear to be. Buffon is arguably one of the best keepers around, while Chiellini is on of the world's best centre backs. Let's not forget Pirlo who has won 2 Champions League medals as well as a World Cup, as well as Marchisio who alongside Pirlo had just won Serie A with Juventus. Furthermore, it's not like Balotelli is a nobody either, playing for the richest club in England (at the time). I could bring up Di Natale who's been scoring 20+ goals in Serie A for 3/4 years but my point is obvious.

People seem oblivious to how good other teams are compared to England. It's only till England get spanked that people realise that they aren't all that good. The coach isn't the problem, it's the media's expectations. England aren't as good as the media claims. Yes Wayne Rooney is a good striker and we have a solid defence, but how is it going to help us when we can't string two passes together and then attempt a lobbed up ball? Players have this panic mentality where they lack the composure to keep possession for long periods of the game. Football is about scoring goals, but you aren't doing yourself any favours by trying long balls which leads to possession lost and invites pressure onto our defence. The manager is not the problem. The players' mentality is. Lampard, Gerrard and Milner (to name a few) aren't going to change overnight. It's not their fault that their game is limited in some aspects, but it is when the media are insistent on them playing when there's younger players who are much more composed on the ball (Barkley, Wilshere).

Last point is, have you realised that there are a lack of black players that play in central midiffield? Haven't seen one since Paul Ince, and I barely saw Ince play. They either get put on the flanks or up-front for pace, or get whacked at centre back because they're "big and strong"
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MagicNMedicine
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#23
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Eriksson and Capello did OK in the context of most England managers. At least with them it was never really a doubt that we would qualify for the major tournaments, I know we needed Becks' last minute freekick against Greece to get us to Japan/Korea 2002 but Eriksson took over after we had had a bad start under Keegan in that group.

I do have a slight feeling that Eriksson was overrated. I think he was good at presenting himself as a better manager than he really was. He was the best paid manager in the world when he was with England but he wasn't the best manager in the world. Capello though, you can't argue with his record he was absolute top drawer as a manager.

The media always ****s off every England manager so its easy to get a more negative view than they deserve but looking at the overall records of England managers both Eriksson and Capello were pretty good: http://www.englandfootballonline.com.../MgrChron.html in fact Glenn Hoddle was better than people remember him as well.

There weren't any English managers around that would have likely done better than Eriksson and Capello, the likely candidates if we had gone English would have been Sam Allardyce, Harry Redknapp or Alan Curbishley but the media and fans would have got on their backs just as much.

It's a myth that people prefer English managers than foreigners because Graham Taylor, Keegan and McLaren were mercilessly ripped by media and fans when they were in charge.
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username912610
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#24
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#24
(Original post by 9MmBulletz)

In the Euros, I remember Alan Hansen going on about how "ordinary" Italy were. Not that I consider Alan's opinion too highly, but it doesn't take much effort to realise how uneducated he can appear to be. Buffon is arguably one of the best keepers around, while Chiellini is on of the world's best centre backs. Let's not forget Pirlo who has won 2 Champions League medals as well as a World Cup, as well as Marchisio who alongside Pirlo had just won Serie A with Juventus. Furthermore, it's not like Balotelli is a nobody either, playing for the richest club in England (at the time). I could bring up Di Natale who's been scoring 20+ goals in Serie A for 3/4 years but my point is obvious.

People seem oblivious to how good other teams are compared to England. It's only till England get spanked that people realise that they aren't all that good.
After that Italy match people in this country only began to realise how good Pirlo is. I remember some Liverpool fans were telling me Gerrard is better than Pirlo. Many people in this country don't seem to watch other leagues.
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9MmBulletz
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#25
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(Original post by Kruz)
After that Italy match people in this country only began to realise how good Pirlo is. I remember some Liverpool fans were telling me Gerrard is better than Pirlo. Many people in this country don't seem to watch other leagues.
As well as that, England are in for a rude awakening this World Cup. There's 5 South American teams who are going to be a serious threat to England's chances (Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Colombia) as well as a few European teams (Italy, Spain, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal possibly).

The two Far East Asian teams (South Korea and Japan) play really good football and aren't easily beaten. Then there's the African teams too.

England will do well to make it beyond the quarter finals
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nixonsjellybeans
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#26
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I read an article recently by someone who used to be or is within the England coaching structure. He said we haven't got the right mentality to be trying to play fancy possession football like Spain despite the fact fans are screaming for it. I think he was saying we should essentially stick to our strengths of a physical game which is embedded within England,
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Jooooshy
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#27
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I don't give a sod whether they're English or not. I just want a manager that will give our national team an identity. A lot of our players play with no passion. Some players pull out of games with an 'injury' because of club duties. If it was up to me, they'd never get an England cap again. I'd rather lose with a team of players who want and deserve to be there than those who hop in and out of the national team like it's a ****ing taxi. The last time I saw anybody play with passion - like they actually wanted to win - was the last time Beckham played.
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9MmBulletz
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#28
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(Original post by nixonsjellybeans)
I read an article recently by someone who used to be or is within the England coaching structure. He said we haven't got the right mentality to be trying to play fancy possession football like Spain despite the fact fans are screaming for it. I think he was saying we should essentially stick to our strengths of a physical game which is embedded within England,
Which will limit us against teams who are technically gifted. It's not something we can change overnight, but the change needs to happen soon so that future generations of players are better at retaining and passing the ball.

We have these players (Joe Cole, Scholes, Wilshere, Ox) but they're not used effectively enough and are overlooked in favour of work-horses (Milner is a prime example. I like his work-rate which is to be admired but he is the jack of all trades.)
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techno-thriller
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#29
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#29
does it matter?
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nixonsjellybeans
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#30
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(Original post by 9MmBulletz)
Which will limit us against teams who are technically gifted. It's not something we can change overnight, but the change needs to happen soon so that future generations of players are better at retaining and passing the ball.

We have these players (Joe Cole, Scholes, Wilshere, Ox) but they're not used effectively enough and are overlooked in favour of work-horses (Milner is a prime example. I like his work-rate which is to be admired but he is the jack of all trades.)
In theory anyway, if we managed to get it right then I don't see why it wouldn't work as there is no foolproof 'winning' tactic. Chances are it might prove more effective than our current attempts anyway.

Not that I agree with the chap anyway, much prefer national football over international
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9MmBulletz
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#31
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(Original post by nixonsjellybeans)
In theory anyway, if we managed to get it right then I don't see why it wouldn't work as there is no foolproof 'winning' tactic. Chances are it might prove more effective than our current attempts anyway.

Not that I agree with the chap anyway, much prefer national football over international
Of course there is no one right way to play football. Although at the top level, technical proficiency is going to get you much further than being physical will as Spain are showing at the minute.

Football is ultimately a skill game and while things such as strength,power, speed etc can make the difference, I think more time should be spent trying to encourage players to keep possession and control of the ball. In Britain, you're always encourage to "hoof it to big man" or "clear it!!", which is risk free in the sense that it ensures defence is not as easily exposed. However, opposition will more than likely keep possession and that will in itself invite pressure onto our defense so it has its major downside. Nothing wrong with being physical. Chelsa's title winning sides were very physical with Drogba, Lampard, Essien and the likes. But they also had a strong counter attack (Robben, Duff, Joe Cole) and could keep the ball well with players like Makelele, Ballack and Tiago (04-05 side).

I do agree with you that Champions League and national leagues provide much better football, mainly because players are playing in a team every week, whilst training with them during the week so team cohesion is much stronger, making play more fluid. The only teams internationally that play with a strong identity are Germany and Spain. That's because the core set of players come from only 2 teams so the players are quite used to playing with each other.
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Danny the Geezer
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#32
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Foreign managers are on the whole more successful than English ones...I'd say so. That includes Scottish, etc. So why not appoint a foreign manager if it gets you the results you need...
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TRS-T
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#33
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(Original post by jaydoh)
Foreign managers are on the whole more successful than English ones...I'd say so. That includes Scottish, etc. So why not appoint a foreign manager if it gets you the results you need...
In that case why not use foreign players to get you the results you need?

Then you just have club football again.

I'd rather fail under an English manager than do well under a foreign manager.
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Danny the Geezer
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#34
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(Original post by TRS-T)

I'd rather fail under an English manager than do well under a foreign manager.
Why, just on principle?
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TRS-T
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#35
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Yeah because at least we are trying to win by using our own people and not using other countries' talent.

Everyone should have a manager from their own country.

FIFA should make it so that you can't use foreign managers.
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Jjj90
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#36
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No matter who we appoint, whether English or Inuit, the England team will be subject to stinging criticism, win lose or draw, pre-match or post-match; the tabloid kick started this whole 'lets all rip into England ALL the time' bull**** and everyone has jumped on the bandwagon, just ceaseless pessimism.
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