If we colonized another planet, the colonists would represent the best amongst us. Watch

Pete_91
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This is why we should crack the ageing problem before discussing colonisation.
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Moosferatu
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Reminded me a bit of:

I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? 'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture, a city where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality, Where the great would not be constrained by the small! And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well.
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danny111
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OP are you American?
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Jingers
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You mean just like the Pilgrims murdered the Indians on Thanksgiving?

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Octopus_Garden
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(Original post by Clip)
Exactly - can you imagine the social chaos on such a ship?

Generation 0 (the people lifting off from earth are ok) are going to be fine. They have established their jobs and skills, and can marry who they like and have children with who they like.

Generation 1 have problems. Firstly, they are being brought up on Noah's Ark. Secondly, the have to pick their professions out of a very small pool of opportunity. If they are no good at Maths, then it's likely that there will only be a few vacancies for chefs, and none at all for artists or poets. They probably won't have relationship issues, though.

Generation 2 is where it starts to go Pete Tong. The Gen 0 people will be starting to die off. There will soon be no original people to pass on skills and knowledge. It becomes imperative that children who have the ability are forced into learning the necessary technical professions to prevent the starship doing a mirror-signal-manoeuvre into the nearest planet.
If there is a second generation of non-techies, there is going to be serious stuff going down. On top of that, not only will people have their futures dictated to them, there will be severe restrictions on who they can or cannot procreate with. They may well be told that they either have children by donor or not at all.

By Gen 3, it's going to be a fascist eugenicist state on-board. Half the kids in school will have common ancestors and there will be an educational apartheid based on who is capable of becoming a astromechanic, and who isn't. There could very likely be a large number of second-class families where there are no techies. What exactly do you do with unemployable people in space?

By Gen 4, no-one is going to have a clue where they are going or why. There will be no-one on board who has seen Earth. Religion, society and social values will probably have been warped out of all recognition. I would be surprised if it got this far without some new religious or political sect blowing up the ship.
Hey, I read that book once, too!
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Dr Pesto
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(Original post by Octopus_Garden)
Hey, I read that book once, too!
I was just about to say that would make a really good sci fi story, is it a book already?
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Octopus_Garden
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(Original post by Dr Pesto)
I was just about to say that would make a really good sci fi story, is it a book already?
To be serious, I don't think Clip was plagiarising, just thinking about what would happen.

Paradises Lost by Ursula K. Le Guin- it's a novella, and it was included in her collection The Birthday of the World

it did indeed make a really good story!
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saberahmed786
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Why does it have to be some far off planet we colonize? I believe Mars will be the first to be inhabited by humans...but not for a long long time! A lot more science and engineering needs to be developed before we can consider it.

Also, the latter part of the OP seemed like how America came about
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Rakas21
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(Original post by ckingalt)
Someday we will locate a planet (planet x) suitable for human habitation and develop a feasible means to transport people to its’ surface. Most anyone will be able go. All that would be required is a large but obtainable fare and a fearless determination. Most of us will dismiss the opportunity as too drastic of a change, or too risky. Many will be unwilling to abandon friends and family. All who stay will have legitimate reasons for doing so, but what about the ones who are willing to go?

While the talkers remain on earth complaining about a lack of equality and opportunity, prospective colonists will have embraced it. The only times in human history in which people are true equals is during the creation of something new. Those who are more than equal amongst us, instinctively know this. To an untamable spirit the increased potential to be an explorer, innovator, or visionary is undeniable. They will dismiss the excuses and just go. They will go for land. They will go for adventure. They will go to conquer, and they will go to build. Amongst them will be greatness. They will thrive.

Back on Earth we will attempt to exploit them. We will feel they owe us for facilitating their original efforts. However, the combination of their remote location and admirable spirit will be insurmountable to those who would repress them. They will inevitably achieve their liberation.

This New World will have an almost unique opportunity to found a society which exceeds anything humanity has ever known. They will be armed with an understanding of where we have failed in the past, and the benefit of a clean slate. With a little luck, the space colonists will be represented by some brilliant and noble persons. People who set a course to inspire those they would govern instead of subjugate them. We should hope the people of planet x do not fail to cherish and protect that gift.

When their time comes, and it will, hopefully they won’t fail to realize that potential, the way those who came before them have.
Interesting. Personally i would indeed relish the opportunity for the reasons you have stated provided that the journey was less than one year.

It would also be interesting to see what happens should the new colony become more advanced than Earth, whether we would be kind to our Earth brethren or seek to rule them as superiors (especially if we have superior military technology).

(Original post by Welsh_insomniac)
I honestly believe 'the new world' will just be populated by big mining corporations and will do nothing noble like you suggest.
At first i agree, already there are companies aiming to mine space. Over time though the sheer availability of resources will likely mean that money becomes less important, it's very possible though that cities will build up around the mining as workers come and then people to service their needs.

(Original post by Kiss)
Isn't that the plot of Elysium?
Elysium was for the rich and a space station.

(Original post by Clip)
There's been academic study on it. Generation ships are very unlikely to be able to support enough people to have a viable gene pool through natural procreation.

There are also much more human factors. Just because you and your spouse are (literally) rocket scientists, and you get on a spaceship - it's entirely possible that your children will be rubbish at maths. On earth, if they happen to be good at Ancient Greek or want to become lawyers, that's no problem. But when you are out past Alpha Centuri and you need someone to take over fixing the engine of the spaceship, that's going to present something of a problem.
Do generational ships not have an inherent flaw in that by the time they reach their destination the technology on Earth will have already developed to get there faster (potentially catching up to the generational ship). It seems to me that generational ships are only really a logical option in an emergency where one has no option but to flee the planet. Especially when one considers that in the last century alone we cracked chemical, ion and nuclear as propulsion methods. This century likely to see the development of nuclear fusion and possibly even anti-matter.

(Original post by Machop)
I feel the exact opposite would probably be the actual reality. Only the wealthy elites who seek to control and regulate society in our current world would be the only ones who could afford to go.
At first this is the case however it's likely that employees will be given the opportunity.

(Original post by The Angry Stoic)
One must only look at emigration to the new world to get a apt comparison. Who went to America? The persecuted, the poor, the religious minorities, the Irish and such groups far more than the best of us.
Those seeking a better life essentially. But within two centuries it's worth noting that the USA was the most powerful country on the planet.

(Original post by the bear)
It will just be a repeat of Columbus and the New World...
I expect there will a mix of reasons. Some will go to form colonies based around their ideas (perhaps a heavily eugenics planet will develop, a more war like planet), others will go for profit and opportunity while others will go for research.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by saberahmed786)
Why does it have to be some far off planet we colonize? I believe Mars will be the first to be inhabited by humans...but not for a long long time! A lot more science and engineering needs to be developed before we can consider it.

Also, the latter part of the OP seemed like how America came about
It depends what you consider a colony.

In terms of reaching another purely habitable planet (assuming that one exists within 10 light years - probable given the number of red dwarfs) then it is fairly likely i think that we will have a probe their by the end of the century and probably within another century for manned habitation. In terms of Mars it now looks like there will be a colony of sorts there before 2030 however they can't live freely and will be dead of radiation within a decade probably as things stand, in terms of being able to terraform Mars then there is categorically no chance that it will be done within two centuries in my opinion.

Note that i take the optimistic view that we will be at half the speed of light by the end of the century (several methods to achieve this).
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elohssa
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(Original post by Kiss)
Isn't that the plot of Elysium?
Pretty much. I'd love to see Elysium part 2 - where Elysium becomes a run down slum.
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The Angry Stoic
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Interesting. Personally i would indeed relish the opportunity for the reasons you have stated provided that the journey was less than one year.

It would also be interesting to see what happens should the new colony become more advanced than Earth, whether we would be kind to our Earth brethren or seek to rule them as superiors (especially if we have superior military technology).



At first i agree, already there are companies aiming to mine space. Over time though the sheer availability of resources will likely mean that money becomes less important, it's very possible though that cities will build up around the mining as workers come and then people to service their needs.



Elysium was for the rich and a space station.



Do generational ships not have an inherent flaw in that by the time they reach their destination the technology on Earth will have already developed to get there faster (potentially catching up to the generational ship). It seems to me that generational ships are only really a logical option in an emergency where one has no option but to flee the planet. Especially when one considers that in the last century alone we cracked chemical, ion and nuclear as propulsion methods. This century likely to see the development of nuclear fusion and possibly even anti-matter.



At first this is the case however it's likely that employees will be given the opportunity.



Those seeking a better life essentially. But within two centuries it's worth noting that the USA was the most powerful country on the planet.



I expect there will a mix of reasons. Some will go to form colonies based around their ideas (perhaps a heavily eugenics planet will develop, a more war like planet), others will go for profit and opportunity while others will go for research.
True but there are far more variables to consider. The US's size and resources mainly.
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ckingalt
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(Original post by Clip)
Unless someone takes huge IVF vats and sperm banks on the spaceships, by the time we get to planet X, the crew will be a literally a bunch of inbred morons, not the best and brightest.

(Original post by Occams Chainsaw)
:confused:

I'm not sure if this was a joke of sorts but it doesn't make sense to me. Say there is a crew of 4: 2 men and 2 women who are unrelated...
women 1 and 2 men a and b -- you'd have children of sort 1a 2a 1b 2b and then child 2a1b and 1a2b and so on. It would be fine, wouldn't it?

(Original post by justanotherposter)
But then those kids would have to breed amongst each other, which again is fine so long as they don't share a grandparent. But then those kids will have to breed and they won't be able to without inbreeding because they will all be related in some way because they will all have the same grandparents or a same parent.

(Original post by Rakas21)
Interesting. Personally i would indeed relish the opportunity for the reasons you have stated provided that the journey was less than one year.

It would also be interesting to see what happens should the new colony become more advanced than Earth, whether we would be kind to our Earth brethren or seek to rule them as superiors (especially if we have superior military technology).



At first i agree, already there are companies aiming to mine space. Over time though the sheer availability of resources will likely mean that money becomes less important, it's very possible though that cities will build up around the mining as workers come and then people to service their needs.



Elysium was for the rich and a space station.



Do generational ships not have an inherent flaw in that by the time they reach their destination the technology on Earth will have already developed to get there faster (potentially catching up to the generational ship). It seems to me that generational ships are only really a logical option in an emergency where one has no option but to flee the planet. Especially when one considers that in the last century alone we cracked chemical, ion and nuclear as propulsion methods. This century likely to see the development of nuclear fusion and possibly even anti-matter.



At first this is the case however it's likely that employees will be given the opportunity.



Those seeking a better life essentially. But within two centuries it's worth noting that the USA was the most powerful country on the planet.



I expect there will a mix of reasons. Some will go to form colonies based around their ideas (perhaps a heavily eugenics planet will develop, a more war like planet), others will go for profit and opportunity while others will go for research.
(Original post by Pete_Lawton)
This is why we should crack the ageing problem before discussing colonisation.
There are many potential solutions to these problems. Many that we can conceive of and many more that we can't. The certainty is that we will solve them if our species survives long enough.
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ckingalt
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(Original post by Plainview)
And people say 2001 A Space Odyssey isn't about evolution.
It's surprising how many people don't get it, or maybe it isn't.
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ckingalt
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(Original post by Machop)
I feel the exact opposite would probably be the actual reality. Only the wealthy elites who seek to control and regulate society in our current world would be the only ones who could afford to go.


(Original post by Dragonfly07)
Not anyone will be able to go. It isn't the same as it was tens of thousand years ago when tribes could build a raft and sail to a new world, or simply walk there. In order to go to a new planet you need resources that require money rather than simple resources that you can just pluck out of nature. Only the richest will be able to go - not the most "noble".

Anyway I think that if we were to colonise space it would take time for them to become successful in the new environment. Space is harsh and they'll run into a lot of dangers. People on earth will probably be better off until after about 50 years of space colonization, when (if) they found out how to overcome all the hardships.
I think you fail to consider the nature in which space travel could change in the future. I know you fail to understand the the "elites" and the "richest". Few would be willing to go, not first anyway.

(Original post by The Angry Stoic)
One must only look at emigration to the new world to get a apt comparison. Who went to America? The persecuted, the poor, the religious minorities, the Irish and such groups far more than the best of us.
The mere persecuted and poor would remain. The best of the persecuted and the best of the poor would be the ones to go, and they are in fact the best amongst us.
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ckingalt
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(Original post by the bear)
It will just be a repeat of Columbus and the New World...
Good point.

(Original post by danny111)
OP are you American?
Yes

(Original post by saberahmed786)
Why does it have to be some far off planet we colonize? I believe Mars will be the first to be inhabited by humans...but not for a long long time! A lot more science and engineering needs to be developed before we can consider it.

Also, the latter part of the OP seemed like how America came about
I suppose it does.
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Octopus_Garden
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(Original post by ckingalt)
It's surprising how many people don't get it, or maybe it isn't.
Book is better. The film doesn't explain the monolith very well. Film is just artsy with that bit.

*Reads post back* Now that's a post that would have got me negged!
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