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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Nonsense. You're putting no-one's lives above your own. Sure, as a pilot-in-command you're responsible for those on board, but you're also keeping yourself alive. It's self preservation.
    I'd say the air pilots responsibility is to do their utmost to prevent the deaths of their passengers on board, and that involves risking their own life it it comes to it.
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    (Original post by Hanvyj)
    I think it is almost 100% how you are brought up as children. Girls just aren't pushed to do the same things boys are. They get rewarded for different things in early childhood, throughout school. The toys we give them are huge examples of how we shape them.
    I think there is too much evidence to the contrary. Take chess for example. Participation rates favour men (statistics vary by country), however there is still plenty of female participation. Despite this, apart from Judit Polgar no woman has ever been in the top 100 of FIDE, and if they did rankings up to the top 1000 it's still unlikely there would be any other women there.

    http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml

    I feel a lot of liberals think along the lines of "if it feels good, it must be true". However nature isn't liberal, it doesn't care if it upsets a group of people. So I still maintain that there are inherent genetic reasons that mathematical/engineering fields are dominated by men.
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    (Original post by Hanvyj)
    I think it is almost 100% how you are brought up as children and the culture we live in. Girls just aren't pushed to do the same things boys are. They get rewarded for different things in early childhood, throughout school. The toys we give them are huge examples of how we shape them.

    Also, simply the fact that there are no female mathematicians, pilots or scientists so it's not likely girls will see it as an option. Ask a kid what they want to be when they grow up. A lot of them pick what their same-sex parents, favorite celebrities or relatives do.

    Then someone comes along and says their 'brain can't do it' anyway and what's the point in even trying?
    I agree to an extent, but I'd say less than almost 100%. At birth the female and male brain is more or less the same, and then differentiates as the brain matures. A lot of people think this is mainly down to the environment and plasticity of the brain- where the environment shapes how the brain develops.
    That provides a pretty good explanation of the differences, women tend to be more empathetic and caring because they are told to behave more caring when young, given dolls to look after and care for etc.

    I don't think it's almost 100% myself, obviously the environment has a lot to do with gender differences but I think gender differences still have a biological foundation.
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    (Original post by elohssa)
    I think there is too much evidence to the contrary. Take chess for example. Participation rates favour men (statistics vary by country), however there is still plenty of female participation. Despite this, apart from Judit Polgar no woman has ever been in the top 100 of FIDE, and if they did rankings up to the top 1000 it's still unlikely there would be any other women there.

    http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml

    I feel a lot of liberals think along the lines of "if it feels good, it must be true". However nature isn't liberal, it doesn't care if it upsets a group of people. So I still maintain that there are inherent genetic reasons that mathematical/engineering fields are dominated by men.
    There's a hell of a lot of evidence that supports the role of environment on gender differences as well. I don't really see the point your making with the chess statistics? :s
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    (Original post by wildrover)
    I don't have any statistics to back it up but the impression I get is that the higher pressure roles such as micro surgery are still dominated by men. I do think men cope better under pressure than women, hence why men out performed women in maths when coursework was scrapped. I don't think that's why there aren't many airline pilots though.
    I don't think males perform better under pressure than men. :s What lead you to believe that? The coursework point is moot because girls still perform better in exams in different subject areas.

    It's the topic, not the pressure.
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    (Original post by pandabird)
    There's a hell of a lot of evidence that supports the role of environment on gender differences as well. I don't really see the point your making with the chess statistics? :s
    Oh of course environment matters. But the chess statistics show that despite a participation rate that includes many women, they are still non-existent amongst the elite players. Even if the participation rate in chess was 10:1 or 100:1 (which isn't anywhere close to being the case) women would still be classed as under-represented.
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    (Original post by shooks)
    BA is recruiting for trainee pilots at the moment with this video of two sisters who work as crew.



    But, as the video says, hardly any airline pilots are women. Why do people think this is? Any female TSR members planning to train as pilots?
    Something that I thought was interesting, was that in a survey, people were more likely to trust a male pilot than a female one, so I think that in the industry, there are some prejudices.

    I don't know enough to talk about whether there are less female pilots simply because less women want to, or because of some other reason.
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    Because they need to learn how to drive cars first before moving onto planes ....
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    (Original post by Hanvyj)
    Sounds superficially a sensible explanation. But it has one rather fatal flaw.

    Flight hostesses.

    There is a huge skew in flight hostesses towards female rather than male and they have all the same problems you listed, except with much less reward.

    It's a cultural thing. Boy's are conditioned from early childhood to want to fly planes and drive diggers (all boy's toyboxes will include an airplane and a digger). Girls are conditioned to want to serve/cook food, look after kids and cut hair/do makeup. (Dolls houses, toy ovens and dolls).
    I don't doubt there are social conditioning issues which also depend on cultural background.

    In general, the U.S. is less career gender biased than the U.K., which is less socially biased than Spain, which is less socially biased than Saudi Arabia...

    But there are also other overriding factors to consider:

    Becoming cabin crew is a far easier training path than becomming a pilot. The qualifications needed do not compare and niether does the training.

    If you get accepted for cabin crew, then you are virtually guaranteed a job at the end of your course.

    Not so for a pilot. If you are looking for a flag carrier to train you to ATPL, then you will be up against some incredibly stiff competition - every bit as much competition as an Oxbridge law degree or medica school.

    Else, you will have to stump up for your own PPl, additional night and instrument ratings and then ATPL training on multi-engine turbo-prop aircraft.

    Then you have to build your flying hours experience, many hundreds of hours flying experience, which is again at your own cost. Then if you are lucky, you will land that first pilots job, but you cannot be fussy about accepting it because it may be the only one you get for a long time.

    Once in the job, you have to maintain a minimum number of flying hours or lose your ratings/licence until you retake the tests - at your own cost.

    Then there is the slight problem of settling down to have a family. Pregnancy and flying do not go hand in hand simply for the physical limits and risks to both mother and child. It's not difficult to see why taking a career break is not so much of an issue for cabin crew, but you really do have to think about embarking on a career as a pilot with the prospect of having to give it all up for the sake of a family.

    I think that is a far more reasoned argument than simple social conditioning because it aso calls into question the role nature has to play with maternal instinct and the biology of reproduction.

    So deciding to become a pilot (and achieving it) is not the same as cabin crew. The social, financial and vocational commitment demands are totally different.
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    I guess because they choose not to, or at least I hope that's the case. But why aren't there more female MP's, lawyers, executives, etc? This isn't a problem restricted to the airline industry. We need more females everywhere.
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    (Original post by pandabird)
    I'd say the air pilots responsibility is to do their utmost to prevent the deaths of their passengers on board, and that involves risking their own life it it comes to it.
    When would that ever happen? :confused:
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    (Original post by thoyub)
    I guess because they choose not to, or at least I hope that's the case. But why aren't there more female MP's, lawyers, executives, etc? This isn't a problem restricted to the airline industry. We need more females everywhere.
    no we don't. the countries with the greatest gender equality in the world (mostly nordic countries) have some of the most unequal numbers in degrees and career choices gender wise. this is what happens when women get a choice. and this what we need to do. not try to engineer a ''perfect'' politically correct 50/50 society, but let women make their own ****ing choice.
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    (Original post by Schleigg)
    When would that ever happen? :confused:
    Use your imagination
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    (Original post by Hanvyj)
    Sounds superficially a sensible explanation. But it has one rather fatal flaw.

    Flight hostesses.

    There is a huge skew in flight hostesses towards female rather than male and they have all the same problems you listed, except with much less reward.

    It's a cultural thing. Boy's are conditioned from early childhood to want to fly planes and drive diggers (all boy's toyboxes will include an airplane and a digger). Girls are conditioned to want to serve/cook food, look after kids and cut hair/do makeup. (Dolls houses, toy ovens and dolls).
    Hostesses don't usually intend to work as a hostess for their entire life. Most hostesses are young. To be a pilot you need to do a lot more training and will earn your money when you middle aged.
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    Most women can barely drive properly, let alone fly a plane.

    Not even being sexist either. It's true. Most women have quite poor spacial awareness etc.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Most women can barely drive properly, let alone fly a plane.

    Not even being sexist either. It's true. Most women have quite poor spacial awareness etc.

    Air crashes involving female pilots are mostly due to mishandling of the plane, while those with male pilots are more often due to flawed decision-making and inattention, a study found.

    Aircraft mishandling was the most common problem for both men and women, but was blamed in 80 percent of female pilots' crashes and just 48 percent of men's.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93264


    pretty much the same things cause men and women to crash cars differently as well. not to mention the parking thing.
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    (Original post by mimi112)
    no we don't. the countries with the greatest gender equality in the world (mostly nordic countries) have some of the most unequal numbers in degrees and career choices gender wise. this is what happens when women get a choice. and this what we need to do. not try to engineer a ''perfect'' politically correct 50/50 society, but let women make their own ****ing choice.
    Well it seems their own choice is just to not do anything with their life and be trashy druggies whores who aren't going anywhere.
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    The best pilots I know are women.

    Two of whom are professional flying instructors. It's amazing the attitude they have to put up with from some of the people who're supposed to be learning from them but think they know better because they've got a penis.
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    (Original post by thoyub)
    Well it seems their own choice is just to not do anything with their life and be trashy druggies whores who aren't going anywhere.
    And your choice is to waste time on a forum coming across like an absolute moron with idiotic and not remotely correct statements.

    I know a few female pilots. They'll amount to far more in life than you ever will.
 
 
 
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