Why should we help African countries? Watch

tengentoppa
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Agapelove)
African countries should not have been invaded and conquered and colonized by other people groups. Would you like it if your country were conquered, invaded, mined and used for the benefit of another people group whose country is far away? I sure wouldn't.

The Golden Rule of doing to others what you would have them do to you applies in every area of life, including in helping countries in need. Would your country appreciate help if it had been conquered and colonized by another group of people, then left destitute and in disarray? Yes.

It's important to help African countries because we would like help if in the same situation. The Golden rule of doing unto others as we would like them to do unto us is vital for true peace in the world.

Helping others is a part of the good side of humanity. All people are humans. We are the human race. While there are ethnicity differences and cultural differences, we all are of the same species. Love is real, and we all are capable of loving each other and helping each other, no matter what is our country of origin.
You live in a dream world. Would I like it if my less-advanced country was taken over by a more advanced one? Not really. Would I accept it? Yes, one must recognise their superiority. The law of the strongest is the one true law of the world. Do unto others as I would do unto myself? How lovely, but others won't abide by that so it would be naive of me to do so.
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Agapelove
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#22
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#22
(Original post by tengentoppa)
You live in a dream world.
If I live in a dream world, it is a lovely dream.

Would I like it if my less-advanced country was taken over by a more advanced one? Not really. Would I accept it? Yes,
You honestly would accept it if a group of people took over your country? Lol. What is your country? My country is the USA. I wouldn't just sit by if a group of people tried to take over my country. I don't care if the conquering group thinks they are more advanced or not.

one must recognise their superiority.
People are not superior to each other. Rather, each person has talents and together, people can and do make the world a better place.
The law of the strongest is the one true law of the world.
[/QUOTE]

The law of strongest belongs in the Middle Ages, not in the modern world.

Do unto others as I would do unto myself? How lovely, but others won't abide by that so it would be naive of me to do so.
Others for sure won't do to you as you would to yourself if you hurt them and try to take away their land. The USA has bloodstains on her hands by hurting the Native Americans and the Africans brought here as slaves. However, as a people we need to mature and evolve for true peace and equality to reign, thus making our country a better place. Helping people in African countries is just a part of growing in maturity and humanity.
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tengentoppa
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Agapelove)
If I live in a dream world, it is a lovely dream.



You honestly would accept it if a group of people took over your country? Lol. What is your country? My country is the USA. I wouldn't just sit by if a group of people tried to take over my country. I don't care if the conquering group thinks they are more advanced or not.



People are not superior to each other. Rather, each person has talents and together, people can and do make the world a better place.
The law of strongest belongs in the Middle Ages, not in the modern world.



Others for sure won't do to you as you would to yourself if you hurt them and try to take away their land. The USA has bloodstains on her hands by hurting the Native Americans and the Africans brought here as slaves. However, as a people we need to mature and evolve for true peace and equality to reign, thus making our country a better place. Helping people in African countries is just a part of growing in maturity and humanity.[/QUOTE]
We clearly have different views on life so this debate isn't going to get us anywhere. Enjoy your evening.
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Agapelove
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#24
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#24
(Original post by tengentoppa)
We clearly have different views on life so this debate isn't going to get us anywhere.
We most definitely do have different views. I believe all people are equal and nobody is superior to anybody. Rather, we all have different talents with which we can help each other.

You obviously think some people are superior to other people and it seems you don't think we should help other people (at least not people in African countries).
Enjoy your evening.
Thank you. I will. I hope you have a lovely evening too.
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Chlorophile
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(Original post by tengentoppa)
The consensus amongst many is that richer countries have a responsibility to help poorer countries, such as those in Africa. Why is this?

African countries were very keen to overthrow their colonial rulers, but the post-colonial era has been disastrous for Africa, with corruption, war and famine. Then, when it becomes apparent that these countries are unfit to rule themselves, we are asked to help them by donating money which makes no difference whatsoever.

African countries are the way they are because of incompetent leadership. These are sovereign nations and so should be responsible for the care of people. Why should rich countries, who have managed to successfully govern their land, be forced to help countries which have been unable to do so?

African countries made their bed by kicking out colonial powers, now they should sleep in it and try and sort themselves out rather than asking for money from successful nations.

Thoughts?
First of all, your argument is fundamentally flawed in the sense that they shouldn't have been exploited by colonising powers in the first place.

However, even if you accept this, it still doesn't mean that we shouldn't help them. You are mixing up history and politics with people. The people dying and suffering from destitution in Africa can't do anything about what happened in the past. The history and politics is irrelevant. They are humans, and as fellow human beings in a superior socio-economic state, we have the moral obligation to alleviate their sufferings and help them achieve the privileges that we accept as normal.

They don't deserve their suffering any more than you deserve your privileges.
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Cucurbita
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#26
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#26
We need to help African countries by continuing with the development of Golden Rice.

Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth are committing a crime against humanity by attempting to stop this life saving technology

http://www.allowgoldenricenow.org/
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hajinator
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#27
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Cos they got rich off Africa? They exploited and in some cases continue to exploit wartorn countries in Africa to fatten their wallets. Aid is their obligation to Africa.
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Agapelove
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#28
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#28
(Original post by hajinator)
Cos they got rich off Africa? They exploited and in some cases continue to exploit wartorn countries in Africa to fatten their wallets. Aid is their obligation to Africa.
I agree with this to a certain extent. However, regardless of if someone exploited people in African countries or not, it is a part of Love and Maturity and Humanity to help people in need, regardless of why they are in need in the first place.

The Golden Rule is mandatory for true peace and equality in this world. I would like to be helped if I needed help. Because of this, I should help those who need and would like to be helped.

On a spiritual level, I also think it's vital to help people in need, both in African countries and anywhere people are in need. Jesus Christ taught the principle of helping those in need and taught the Golden Rule as well (Luke 6:31). While horrifically many people who called themselves Christians have not helped those in need but rather hurt and exploited people, it is vital for those who call themselves Christians to help those in need and do to others what they would want done to them.
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tengentoppa
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Chlorophile)
First of all, your argument is fundamentally flawed in the sense that they shouldn't have been exploited by colonising powers in the first place.

However, even if you accept this, it still doesn't mean that we shouldn't help them. You are mixing up history and politics with people. The people dying and suffering from destitution in Africa can't do anything about what happened in the past. The history and politics is irrelevant. They are humans, and as fellow human beings in a superior socio-economic state, we have the moral obligation to alleviate their sufferings and help them achieve the privileges that we accept as normal.

They don't deserve their suffering any more than you deserve your privileges.
It is the responsibility of the governments of these African nations to provide for their people. Whilst dictators continue to act in self-interest, we have no obligation to help them.
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Agapelove
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#30
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(Original post by Chlorophile)
First of all, your argument is fundamentally flawed in the sense that they shouldn't have been exploited by colonising powers in the first place.
100% agreed

However, even if you accept this, it still doesn't mean that we shouldn't help them. You are mixing up history and politics with people. The people dying and suffering from destitution in Africa can't do anything about what happened in the past.
True

The history and politics is irrelevant.
I do think history is relevant, and it is true that the African countries should not have been exploited in the first place!

They are humans,
True

and as fellow human beings in a superior socio-economic state, we have the moral obligation to alleviate their sufferings and help them achieve the privileges that we accept as normal.
I disagree with the wording here. We are in a healthier socio-economic state. I shy away from the superior word/meaning because that leads some people to erroneously thinking some people are superior to others, when really some some states are healthier than others. No person is superior to another. Rather, all people are equal and have different talents that when used together, can help people.

They don't deserve their suffering any more than you deserve your privileges.
100% agreed!!!
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Chlorophile
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#31
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(Original post by tengentoppa)
It is the responsibility of the governments of these African nations to provide for their people. Whilst dictators continue to act in self-interest, we have no obligation to help them.
No it isn't, because those governments are not in the social, political or economic position to provide for their people. It's very easy to say "It's not my problem" when you're living a life of luxury. If you were in Africa, living on a scorching, infertile and remote rural farm where every day was a struggle and half of your children had died of Malaria, I doubt you'd be saying that.
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Plainview
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(Original post by techno-thriller)
It was the colonies that threw them into that mess.
So your suggestion for helping Africa is 'point the finger of blame'?
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Chlorophile
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#33
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(Original post by Agapelove)
I disagree with the wording here. We are in a healthier socio-economic state. I shy away from the superior word/meaning because that leads some people to erroneously thinking some people are superior to others, when really some some states are healthier than others. No person is superior to another. Rather, all people are equal and have different talents that when used together, can help people.
I see what you mean, but I didn't say that we are superior to them. I said that our socio-economic state is superior to theirs which I don't think you can really disagree with unless you for some reason desire to live in poverty on an arid, rural farm.
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tengentoppa
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Chlorophile)
No it isn't, because those governments are not in the social, political or economic position to provide for their people. It's very easy to say "It's not my problem" when you're living a life of luxury. If you were in Africa, living on a scorching, infertile and remote rural farm where every day was a struggle and half of your children had died of Malaria, I doubt you'd be saying that.
Point taken, but these countries can still make better use of their resources than they are now. Look at Apartheid South Africa and the former Rhodesia. Unequal? Absolutely. Strong economically? Absolutely. If these countries could adopt a different system then I would be more inclined to help them. As it is, our aid does absolutely nothing.
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Chlorophile
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(Original post by tengentoppa)
Point taken, but these countries can still make better use of their resources than they are now. Look at Apartheid South Africa and the former Rhodesia. Unequal? Absolutely. Strong economically? Absolutely. If these countries could adopt a different system then I would be more inclined to help them. As it is, our aid does absolutely nothing.
We live in a fairly well off country and even we have difficulty enacting political change, and we actually have the ability to because the people have enough free time and have the education to get involved in politics. If you live in a country where people are working from dawn till dusk simply to keep themselves and their children alive and have access to zero education, how exactly do you expect them to create the political situation where they're going to be able to make better use of their resources? Anyway, most of their resources are owned by foreign MNCs who exploit them for the sake of despot leaders.
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illegaltobepoor
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(Original post by tengentoppa)
The consensus amongst many is that richer countries have a responsibility to help poorer countries, such as those in Africa. Why is this?

African countries were very keen to overthrow their colonial rulers, but the post-colonial era has been disastrous for Africa, with corruption, war and famine. Then, when it becomes apparent that these countries are unfit to rule themselves, we are asked to help them by donating money which makes no difference whatsoever.

African countries are the way they are because of incompetent leadership. These are sovereign nations and so should be responsible for the care of people. Why should rich countries, who have managed to successfully govern their land, be forced to help countries which have been unable to do so?

African countries made their bed by kicking out colonial powers, now they should sleep in it and try and sort themselves out rather than asking for money from successful nations.

Thoughts?
Britain is not a rich country. We have 900% debt vs GDP. It costs us 7% of GDP alone to pay for our debts. We get 39% of our GDP in tax revenue. This means 18% of our tax revenue is spent on servicing our DEBT! Japan is 25% and is in stagnation right now. So can we afford to send money abroad for foreign aid?

No!
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russellsteapot
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Honestly, I'm not sure we should. The reason Africa is pretty ****ed up is because it's had massive social, political and economic change dropped onto it. 'Help', essentially. Politically, certain parts of Africa have been doing the same stuff as we have for thousands of years. But certain parts have had to take in the same amount of social/political change as the UK experienced in 4000 years, but they've done it in 200 years. Of course everything will go wrong. Democracies and societies take years to develop. You can't arbitrarily draw lines on a map and expect seven vastly different cultures to get along because they're all from the same country now, because we said so. Nor can we drop in economic policies and expect them to work, because that's what we do so of course it has to work for everyone else.

I do wonder if the west is guilty of thinking that our way is the best way? Quite how importing our entire cultural, economic and political attitudes onto a continent which has been richly ****ed up by them is a good thing is quite beyond me. I doubt it'll happen, but why not hold off and let the place redevelop its own equilibrium? I imagine Africa got on quite well before colonisation/interference. Maybe they didn't have guns, as much technology or huge crusading armies. But it worked. I think 'we' (generic western we) need to lose the oppressors' guilt and realise that most of what we do to 'help' is actually hindering the recipients.
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StarvingAutist
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There aren't really any shoulds about it, it's just whether you want to or not. On the face of it, there are no reasons to help them - they're so far away.
But then, I suppose that people somehow feel a kind of responsibility and guilt for living in a system where such extremes of wealth and poverty exist, and in the end they want to even it out.

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The_Dragonborn
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Let's face it, there are so many divides in African society that they will almost always be at war with one another. Different tribes, different languages, different regions - they'll never stop.
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Yi-Ge-Ningderen
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(Original post by illegaltobepoor)
Britain is not a rich country. We have 900% debt vs GDP. It costs us 7% of GDP alone to pay for our debts. We get 39% of our GDP in tax revenue. This means 18% of our tax revenue is spent on servicing our DEBT! Japan is 25% and is in stagnation right now. So can we afford to send money abroad for foreign aid?

No!
I agree.

Funny how certain people here are ignoring the success of Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan and many other places around the world that were under colonial rule by various nations. It has been 60 years since many of these places gained independence and as other have posted, some of them demanded independence so fast that no change over system was created (at least a useful one), if many of these African countries had been under foreign rule up until now, they would be prosperous places.
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