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Animal lovers that eat meat - hypocrites or not? watch

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    I eat meat responsibly, as far as is possible. We are evolved to eat meat whether people like it or not, so 'loving' animals is really a bonus anyway.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    a combination of the two Animal rights activists brought it to peoples attention and consumer patterns changes accordingly.
    But the law would have majority impact since you could probably assume that there would still be a lot of sustainable fishing now if there were no actual laws in place?
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    (Original post by ThatPerson)
    I'd say that in one sense I am being hypocritical by supporting animal rights - ie I'm against Whaling, killing of elephants for ivory, killing of dolphins and I support animal conservation, yet at the same time I eat meat.

    Humans have been omnivores for centuries and there isn't anything intrinsically wrong with it, but what is wrong is the bad conditions that animals are kept in on battery farms and the sheer scale of it. We're influencing the direction of several species' evolution because we are breeding them for more meat, milk and eggs.
    Hey I don't want to pressure anyone at all. But my thinking used to be just like yours, and I found it much easier to cut down than cut out. Eventually I pretty much gave up all meat although for the desire not to remain one of those awkward veggies I do partake in meat upon occasion.

    Eating meat didn't weigh too good on my conscience so I cut down to twice a week, helped me sleep easier and enjoy meat more when I did have it!
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    (Original post by PerryPerry95)
    But the law would have majority impact since you could probably assume that there would still be a lot of sustainable fishing now if there were no actual laws in place?
    I think laws need to combine with consumer pressure for these sorts of things to be effective.

    The law also changed things so people weren't chucking dead fish overboard which is nice.

    Before that fishermen had no choice whether to chuck them back or not.
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    (Original post by Plainview)
    I eat meat responsibly, as far as is possible. We are evolved to eat meat whether people like it or not, so 'loving' animals is really a bonus anyway.
    Why do people always use the argument of 'humans are omnivores' 'we've evolved this way'. It's the naturalistic fallacy and therefore irrelevant. There are plenty of natural things we no longer do and plenty of unnatural things we do that are beneficial to us.

    Even if it is entirely natural, that still doesn't make it right.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    I'm not responsible for how you interpret my post. The points i was making were quite clear.

    You were directly contradicting yourself by saying 'I would never be involved in cruel acts to animals' yet then admitted you do indeed buy meat because if you didn't 'it wouldn't make much difference anyway'. That's awful logic.
    could you please point out exactly where i said 'I would never be involved in cruel acts to animals' for all i see is me claiming "i could never be cruel to an animal"

    Besides the fact you are putting words in my mouth, thanks to other posts i can see now how my actions may be seen as hypocritical.

    Let me make it clear, i love animals and couldnt be directly involved in cruelty towards them.

    Yet i have little moral issues with being indirectly involved with battery farming etc.

    If i had more money available then i would not buy such products.

    There for in MY mind, i am not hypocritical yet i can clearly see how others may think it is.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    You are infact directly involved in cruel acts to animals when you buy cheap meat. By paying for it you are essentially saying "I support this and i wish for it to continue."

    I despise the attitude of "There's no point giving this thing up because it won't make much difference." It's a **** excuse and the exact way i used to think before i gave up meat.
    How is that directly? He/she hasn't gone out and slaughtered an animal. Indirectly, maybe, but definitely not directly.

    A bit hypocritical of you to call Animal lovers who eat meat hypocrites when you used to eat meat yourself? According to your logic, doing a bit of "good" and a bit of "bad" against animals is hypocritical. That logic means you are a hypocrite yourself.

    Eating animals that are evidently in great numbers and are of no risk of going extinct while still trying to save the endangered species or reducing sport hunting is still better than not caring about animals at all. Sure the way farm animals are kept and treated could be further improved but given how many people in the world that are starving every day, I would rather we fixed more urgent problems first.
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    Personally, I don't eat meat because i know if i was given a knife and told to kill an animal I wouldn't be able to do it, so it would be hypocritical. On the other hand, vegetarianism doesn't work for everyone and i think any contribution people can make (cutting down on meat/ buying ethical meat) is better than nothing.
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    (Original post by dada55)
    How is that directly? He/she hasn't gone out and slaughtered an animal. Indirectly, maybe, but definitely not directly.

    A bit hypocritical of you to call Animal lovers who eat meat hypocrites when you used to eat meat yourself? According to your logic, doing a bit of "good" and a bit of "bad" against animals is hypocritical. That logic means you are a hypocrite yourself.

    Eating animals that are evidently in great numbers and are of no risk of going extinct while still trying to save the endangered species or reducing sport hunting is still better than not caring about animals at all. Sure the way farm animals are kept and treated could be further improved but given how many people in the world that are starving every day, I would rather we fixed more urgent problems first.
    It's ridiculous to suggest someone is being a hypocrite because of something they used to do. I used to eat meat, i no longer do. There's a difference between someone being hypocritical by holding contradictory beliefs and someone's moral beliefs simply changing over time.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    Why do people always use the argument of 'humans are omnivores' 'we've evolved this way'. It's the naturalistic fallacy and therefore irrelevant. There are plenty of natural things we no longer do and plenty of unnatural things we do that are beneficial to us.

    Even if it is entirely natural, that still doesn't make it right.
    You're misreading what I said. I did not mention morality. I do not mean that it is right. I simply mean that it is natural. We can be expected to behave in ways that are natural to us, as is the case with self-defence leniency laws.

    People can be naturally expected to eat meat, since we have evolved this way. Therefore treating animals positively – which we are not, in a wider sense, evolved to do – is unnatural and therefore a bonus.
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    Does this mean vegetarians hate plants?
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    (Original post by melinae)
    I love animals don't get me wrong, but eating meat is a natural part of (most) human's diets.

    The people that get me are the animal "obsessives" who DON'T eat meat, not because they don't like it, but because its "hurting all the animals" if they eat it. 1.It's a natural thing, if the first humans turned around and said "NO MATE, I DONT EAT MEAT" then they probably would have all died at some point. Animals are cute, but they eat each other, why shouldn't we?

    Hunting and killing/harming with the intent of not eating, or for no good reason (such as people who buy pets and beat them etc) are wrong in my eyes, but eating animals, no. At least they then go to good use, i.e. energy. I think eating endangered animals is sad, but theres not gonna be any way to stop that ultimately, so I don't bother with the whole campaigning thing. I care, but humans are causing the next mass extinction, so there's no going back now we've already ****ed up this planet.
    1. Not really. You don't die if you don't eat meat. You eat meat because you like it not because you need it. And if you eat animals just because you like it, what could stop you from eating humans as well?
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    It's ridiculous to suggest someone is being a hypocrite because of something they used to do. I used to eat meat, i no longer do. There's a difference between someone being hypocritical by holding contradictory beliefs and someone's moral beliefs simply changing over time.
    Oh ok so you used to be a hypocrite but because you now changed, you are no longer a hypocrite. You know, "all those poor chickens and cows that must of died because of your "direct" actions are now peacefully at rest, you will no longer eat their brothers and sisters."
    Small actions can change the world but only when change is actually needed. In this case, I think that eating meat responsibly is better than the whole world turning vegetarian. If that makes me a hypocrite then so be it.
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    (Original post by dada55)
    Oh ok so you used to be a hypocrite but because you now changed, you are no longer a hypocrite. You know, "all those poor chickens and cows that must of died because of your "direct" actions are now peacefully at rest, you will no longer eat their brothers and sisters."
    Small actions can change the world but only when change is actually needed. In this case, I think that eating meat responsibly is better than the whole world turning vegetarian. If that makes me a hypocrite then so be it.
    Please explain how the whole world going vegetarian is worse than people eating meat, albeit responsibly sourced?
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    Please explain how the whole world going vegetarian is worse than people eating meat, albeit responsibly sourced?
    Funny how you only pick small bits out of whole posts. Anyway I meant that there isn't a need to change because eating meat is a natural thing for humans. Sure we as moral beings should reduce the harm the farm animals go through while being prepared but I have no bad feelings in killing a non-endangered animal for food. If you want to live your life as vegetarian, then fine but don't call people hypocrites for preferring different type of meal than you do.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    You know those people on Facebook that often post photos of cute animals and share links to do with saving elephants/dolphins from harm etc. Can someone fairly call themselves an 'animal lover' but still buy into the barbaric, intensively reared, mass-produced factory farmed pigs, cows and chickens?
    This pisses me off so ****ing much.

    Yes, in some instances, this can happen. I'm not saying it doesn't. But I wish people would stop saying such ****ing stupid things about farmers and how they rear their animals. Have you even been on a farm? Have you ever been on one for a decent length of time? Do you even know what happens on a farm? I'll assume not because your post is just full of total ignorance.

    You describe them as "barbaric" places. From personal experience (about 14 years realistically because that's when I can remember it from), I would never describe any of the farms I have been on as barbaric. The cows and sheep we have are treated with the utmost respect and are given everything they need, and more. Right now we have about 80 sheep roaming over about 10 pretty large fields (which have plenty of grass) and silage for them to eat. Water in every single field, plenty of small trees for shelter, and they're checked twice a day. Next month, most will be brought into an incredibly large shed to lamb where they have plenty of room to move about, lots of silage to eat, a clean straw bed, several containers of water to drink from (which are thoroughly cleaned weekly) and mineral feed blocks so they aren't lacking in anything. They'll be checked at least 7 times a day (and throughout the night, too).

    Once they have lambs, we put them into large individual pens, spray their navels with iodine to prevent infection, make sure they get colostrum and check them constantly to make sure they're getting enough milk and aren't coming down with anything. If they are, we have a range of injections which we can give them for different things, and if that doesn't work, then we bring them down to the vet.

    Once enough time has passed and it's a nice day, then they go outside, into a sheltered field with other sheep. They're checked daily. If anything is wrong with them once they're outside, we bring them back home and treat them.

    How the **** is that barbaric? They follow us around for gods sake, if we go into a field they run to see us on their own accord. If I sit down in a field, some of the lambs will come and lie down beside me. You have absolutely no idea.

    Sure, though, not everywhere is like this, but most farmers would genuinely do anything for their animals. And besides, farms are inspected. There's an awful lot of a red tape which you seem to have no idea about.

    Oh, and this intensively reared bull****? It's not as common as you think it is in the UK. I can't talk for outside the UK, but here it's only really beginning to start, and I think its ****ing disgusting, as do many other farmers. In NI, it's pretty much non existent, anyway, which I'm very grateful for.

    ---

    Back to your original question, yes you can. I eat chicken, pork and some beef. I think it's a very personal matter and tbh I don't really see why it needs to be questioned. Everyone has their own views and reasons for eating, or not eating, meat. IMO, as long as the animals in question are treated well throughout their life, and killed very humanely, then I don't think I have any right to dictate to others what they should/should not do.
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    (Original post by dada55)
    Funny how you only pick small bits out of whole posts.
    Because that was the only relevant point. The first part of your post was sarcasm. Which other part of the post would you like me to answer? I fully admit i used to hold contradictary views, which is why i now no longer eat meat.

    Anyway I meant that there isn't a need to change because eating meat is a natural thing for humans. Sure we as moral beings should reduce the harm the farm animals go through while being prepared but I have no bad feelings in killing a non-endangered animal for food.
    Naturalistic falacy.

    If you want to live your life as vegetarian, then fine but don't call people hypocrites for preferring different type of meal than you do.
    Strawman argument. I've never called someone a hypocrite for simply 'preferring a different type of meal to me'. The original post was aimed at people who explicitly identify themselves as 'animal lovers' and go out of their way to make it seem like they are compassionate to multiple different animal rights issues, and then go and eat the cheapest and most intensively reared meat that's available.
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    (Original post by snailsareslimy)
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    First of all, you've missed the point slightly. I never stated that all farms treated animals as terribly as one another. And by referring to it as barbaric, i didn't necessarily only mean the farming process, or every animal on every farm as you seem to think. I believe that simply slaughtering huge numbers of sentient animals that feel pain and emotion is barbaric, regardless of the farming process. There are plenty of farms that treat animals badly. Most chickens don't even see daylight and are reared to grow as fast as possible. That it extremely cruel.

    Out of interest, the animals on the farm that you're referring to, where does their meat end up? Are you supplying supermarkets or large chain restaurants?

    The point of my post was aimed at the people who do buy the cheapest meat available and take no regard for where it comes from.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    First of all, you've missed the point slightly. I never stated that all farms treated animals as terribly as one another. And by referring to it as barbaric, i didn't necessarily only mean the farming process, or every animal on every farm as you seem to think. I believe that simply slaughtering huge numbers of sentient animals that feel pain and emotion is barbaric, regardless of the farm process.

    Out of interest, the animals on the farm that you're referring to, where does their meat end up? Are you supplying supermarkets or large chain restaurants?

    The point of my post was aimed at the people who do buy the cheapest meat available and take no regard for where it comes from.
    You still used the word barbaric when referring to the process in general. It was important that people who aren't well read up on this actually know that the farming process, generally, isn't barbaric at all.

    They're sold at a market to whoever wants them. Usually a general meat plant, which will have its own companies to supply. I don't know, nor do I really care. I don't like where they end up, but as long as they're treated well until they're sold, that's all I can do.

    Oh, definitely. Cheap meat from Brazil etc needs to be removed from every single shop as soon as possible. Not only are their regulations over there non existent and their treatment of their animals is generally vile, it's also a contributing factor to the levels of mass deforestation in Brazil, which we all know is terrible. We should be supporting our own farmers, especially as the industry is in a massive decline and will be fairly non existent within 30-40 years. I mean, lets be honest, who is going to go into an industry where 33 pence per litre of milk is a standard price? It's not viable or sustainable, farmers are just about breaking even (or making a loss). The entire sector needs restructuring on a huge level, and intensive farming is simply not the answer.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    Because that was the only relevant point. The first part of your post was sarcasm. Which other part of the post would you like me to answer? I fully admit i used to hold contradictary views, which is why i now no longer eat meat.
    Sure, on my first post I replied to you: how is eating meat "directly" harming them?
    And, How is it hypocritical to at least try to save endangered animals and improve conditions for farm animals? Are you saying it is better to either completely disregard animals or completely go against all animal abuse? In which case many vegetarians and vegans, as pointed out earlier on by others are also hypocrites.
    You also use the word hypocrite as if to offend people, but given what I wrote above, I would be happier being labelled as hypocrite rather than be someone that eats meat and enjoys harming animals.

    (Original post by tomclarky)

    Naturalistic falacy.
    How does that even apply here? If I want to eat meat because it makes me feel better and is one of the only thing that can fill me up properly, I sure wouldn't be able to survive without meat. Just because you think eating meat is wrong, doesn't make it so. I'll happily accept my personal inner instincts as morally right because the other option for me is death or sadness. If the only way to be "good" is for yourself to feel "bad" then what is the point? Are you really telling me you would rather all carnivores just died off or something?

    (Original post by tomclarky)

    Strawman argument. I've never called someone a hypocrite for simply 'preferring a different type of meal to me'. The original post was aimed at people who explicitly identify themselves as 'animal lovers' and go out of their way to make it seem like they are compassionate to multiple different animal rights issues, and then go and eat the cheapest and most intensively reared meat that's available.
    Yeah because they obviously choose the cheapest meat because they wanted those animals to suffer as much as possible. It had nothing to do that these people might not have enough money to fill their fridge with food and had no other option. You want these people to feel bad, but they are still better than those who feel joy harming animals. I don't think they are hypocrites, they just don't have other options.
 
 
 
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