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    (Original post by Falcatas)
    No the problem is with the EU because doesn't have enough democratic approval from the people. Why else are turnouts so low?
    Then this is not the EUs problem, this is a problem with the electorate.
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    (Original post by No Man)
    Yes. (and that's one of the main reasons why I'll be voting UKIP on the 22nd of May)
    Oh look at that: another UKIP fanboy who doesn't know what they're actually voting for.
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    Without sounding dumb, could someone explain to me what this section of politics is about? I tried researching but I couldn't find a website that explained in a way I understood (even if you could give me a link with a good explanation?). I know pretty much all British politics from past and present but I'm honestly lost here. At school we were taught about most elections as we are eligible to vote, but they focused on the Scottish referendum so I'm still clueless as to what is going on with this European election (is that even what I'm meant to call it?).

    Thanks for any explanations you can give
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    (Original post by scum bag stalin)
    Oh look at that: another UKIP fanboy who doesn't know what they're actually voting for.
    I know what I'm voting for. I'm voting for Pandora's box to be opened in Brussels' parliament. Even better if a number of other EU nations do the same, which is a possibility.
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    (Original post by No Man)
    Yes. (and that's one of the main reasons why I'll be voting UKIP on the 22nd of May)
    Which is ridiculous because UKIP tend not to vote in the EU, therefore they will not be representing your views in the European Parliament because they will probably abstain. This will not stop us being part of the EU it will just mean we have 0 say and 0 voice over what happens in the EU.

    If you disagree with being in the EU vote for UKIP in the general elections.
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    (Original post by Georgie_M)
    Which is ridiculous because UKIP tend not to vote in the EU, therefore they will not be representing your views in the European Parliament because they will probably abstain. This will not stop us being part of the EU it will just mean we have 0 say and 0 voice over what happens in the EU.

    If you disagree with being in the EU vote for UKIP in the general elections.
    I'd rather have no voice in that sense than a voice that agrees with everything the EU president says (like Labour and the Lib Dems. The Tory's won't be listened to because their voices will be deemed irrelevant)
    And having no voice/abstaining means more power to the Continental Eurosceptics (e.g the European Alliance for Freedom) which I'm all for if it ruins the EU.

    And I don't want to vote UKIP in the general elections, because I don't agree with their domestic policies.
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    (Original post by No Man)
    I'd rather have no voice in that sense than a voice that agrees with everything the EU president says (like Labour and the Lib Dems. The Tory's won't be listened to because their voices will be deemed irrelevant)
    And having no voice/abstaining means more power to the Continental Eurosceptics (e.g the European Alliance for Freedom) which I'm all for if it ruins the EU.

    And I don't want to vote UKIP in the general elections, because I don't agree with their domestic policies.
    Hahaha what? Not voting somehow gives us more power than voting?

    When there is EU parliamentary decisions that are voted on it is a democratic process. If we vote then our vote is worth as much as anyone else's vote.

    Even if the vetoing by many euro sceptic parties starts raising doubts about the representativeness of the EU it won't mean we leave the EU unless the people running our country want us to.
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    (Original post by Georgie_M)
    Hahaha what? Not voting somehow gives us more power than voting?

    When there is EU parliamentary decisions that are voted on it is a democratic process. If we vote then our vote is worth as much as anyone else's vote.

    Even if the vetoing by many euro sceptic parties starts raising doubts about the representativeness of the EU it won't mean we leave the EU unless the people running our country want us to.
    It's not democratic if we can only vote for the equivalent of the US congress.

    If you tell the American people 'George. W. Bush/Barack Obama will be the US president for X number of years and have control over every state and state policy, but now you can only vote for your state's congress members who will be responsible for deciding the next new president if it's agreed by other states' congress members' I'm sure they'd be delighted.
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    (Original post by No Man)
    It's not democratic if we can only vote for the equivalent of the US congress.
    I am not really familiar enough with American politics to make a comparison.

    However although I am not necessarily for the EU and support a referendum while we are in it I would of course want a vote. It just seems backwards to me to say 'I'll just veto my vote while still *****ing and moaning about the decisions being made'
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    (Original post by Georgie_M)
    Which is ridiculous because UKIP tend not to vote in the EU, therefore they will not be representing your views in the European Parliament because they will probably abstain. This will not stop us being part of the EU it will just mean we have 0 say and 0 voice over what happens in the EU.

    If you disagree with being in the EU vote for UKIP in the general elections.

    UKIP votes against anything that increases further integration into Europe and anything that gives it more power over national governments.

    A vote for UKIP is a vote against a federal Europe.
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    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    Then this is not the EUs problem, this is a problem with the electorate.

    Just like a typical Eurocrat, the problem is with the people not the government.
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    (Original post by Falcatas)
    Just like a typical Eurocrat, the problem is with the people not the government.
    Ok, if you say so? :confused: This makes no difference to your original arguement.
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    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    Ok, if you say so? :confused: This makes no difference to your original arguement.
    Exactly what I was thinking, i presume eurocrat is supposed to be in some way offensive.
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    (Original post by Falcatas)
    Being elected by MEPs is not even remotely comparable to being elected by the people. Why can't I vote for who I want to be the President of the Commission?
    Why can't you vote directly on bills to determine if they become acts, instead of having a bunch of people in the Commons and Lords vote for you? How undemocratic.

    You choose your representatives and trust them to make decisions in your favour, whether that be voting in MPs to represent you in Parliament here or voting in MEPs to represent you abroad. Why is one democratic and the other not, in your view?
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    (Original post by ManifoldManifest)
    Why can't you vote directly on bills to determine if they become acts, instead of having a bunch of people in the Commons and Lords vote for you? How undemocratic.

    You choose your representatives and trust them to make decisions in your favour, whether that be voting in MPs to represent you in Parliament here or voting in MEPs to represent you abroad. Why is one democratic and the other not, in your view?
    The House of Lords is a problem yes but at least the members in the Commons can be removed by the people by elections. There is no such equivalent for the European Commission they have never had to win their own support.

    For example Baroness Aston who is charge of foreign policy of the EU has never ever won any vote in her own country.

    I would be in all support for reducing the governments power and bringing it down to the local level. The aim of the EU is to do the opposite, to strip away as much as possible from local communities.
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    (Original post by RumpeIstiltskin)
    It's not that complicated if you actually bother to look into it. Most of the UK electorate, i imagine, don't know very much about UK government structure such as what the House of Lords or the devolved governments do so people not understanding it is hardly a decent argument for voting UKIP.

    edit: I'm not necessarily in favour of the EU parliament voting system by any means; I think it BS that the vote of someone living in Luxembourg is worth 10x more than a British, German or French citizen because they get a disproportionate amount of MEPs for their population size.
    Meh, I didn't get it after a 90mins lecture/explaination I attended.

    Nor after visiting the Parlamentarium when I was in Brussels.
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    (Original post by Falcatas)
    Being elected by MEPs is not even remotely comparable to being elected by the people. Why can't I vote for who I want to be the President of the Commission?[/URL]
    I'm not allowed to vote for who my Prime Minister is. Disgusting.

    And I have also been told that I'm not allowed to vote for who runs the human resources department at my local tax office - which is insane

    Damn undemocratic UK.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    I'm not allowed to vote for who my Prime Minister is. Disgusting.

    And I have also been told that I'm not allowed to vote for who runs the human resources department at my local tax office - which is insane

    Damn undemocratic UK.
    That's the issue fuelling the Scottish independence yes campaign, which makes it virtually the same as the campaign to get out of the EU for the same reason. The only difference is that the Yes campaign want to become another the of Latvia or Ireland within the EU (i.e a servent) instead.
    On the other hand, the UK will do fine out of the EU, seeing as it's not part of the Euro and has the world's 6th largest economy (soon to be 5th, since France isn't doing that well) which fear mongers always forget.
 
 
 
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