UKIP were right about Romanian and Bulgarian immigration all along Watch

KimKallstrom
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(Original post by Aph)
So you don't care that they are taking the jobs that no British person wants to do
I do wonder how long this lie is going to be peddled. It wasn't even true pre-2008 let alone now.
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illegaltobepoor
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(Original post by SoggyTractor)
Does it change the fact that UKIP is a hypocritical, policy-less, structure-less, mostly racist party? No.

How many of them can 'exploit the welfare system and take benefits'? Not many, thanks to the Tory measures.

How many of them are likely to leave soon? Probably quite a lot.
To be honest the problem of Roma Gypsies begging, stealing and scrounging is very common in Europe. It is mainly because they are so poor they have no other alternative. You can make as many negative comments as you like. It won't solve their situation. They have became skilled in extracting wealth from other nations by any means possible.

A good majority may say these people are vermin. But the truth is all poor people are considered vermin by those who have a better standard of living.

The only thing UKIP and Tories have done is encouraged the rest of Europe to kick the can of poverty down the road again. Ignore it. Brand all the poor as scroungers and undesirables.

If it where possible I bet UKIP, Tories, Lib Dems, BNP and other right-wing nasty parties would be up for deporting disabled people, single mothers, unemployed families, orphans and so on.

The epidemic of class war has always been with us. Some may have not noticed it only until it effects them.

Europes rich & their leg humpers constantly pointing at Europes poor.

We all know who caused the economic crisis. The global banking sector but these Tory/UKIP smug hypocrites like to spin the argument and blame people who are economically inactive or immigrants.

It always happens.

Majority of these posters on this forum may as well say BAAA BAAA BAAA or Me a Parrot and I want a cracker or I like my strings pulled and being told what to say because I'm a puppet!
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Aph
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(Original post by KimKallstrom)
I do wonder how long this lie is going to be peddled. It wasn't even true pre-2008 let alone now.
Right let me know when you find a British person who has gone to uni after barely scraping though a levels who doesn't think that manual labour is below them
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Welsh Bluebird
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Farage said many times that 'tens of millions' would come here once controls were relaxed.
No he didn't. Yet another person who fails to understand the key difference between the words 'able' and 'will' or 'would'.

Farage said many millions are able to come to the UK. They are and he is correct. Likewise, I'm able to move to any EU country easily and only have to register with the local authority to alert them of my presence in the area. I know as I did it in Germany. It was very easy.

If you're not going to listen to the arguments put forward then please refrain from commenting as now you're just spreading misinformation. Nick Clegg did the same during the televised debates and made himself look like a complete buffoon which is why many thought he lost them.

Nigel Farage has never said millions WILL move to the UK but has repeatedly said millions are ABLE to move to the UK and due to the free movement within the EU he is 100% spot on.
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Ace123
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UKIP were definately right as employment figures revealed- these figures are only for those working so does not show those immigrants who don't work, are on benefits, the families of people working or those immigrants who are too young or too old to work

In the year to March 2014 the numbers went up 25% to 140,000 and compared to a year ago numbers were up 44%

So much for the Romanian ambassador saying only 8,000 would come for the entire year! the government knew what would happen and did nothing

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...#disqus_thread
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DaveSmith99
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(Original post by Ace123)
UKIP were definately right as employment figures revealed- these figures are only for those working so does not show those immigrants who don't work, are on benefits, the families of people working or those immigrants who are too young or too old to work

In the year to March 2014 the numbers went up 25% to 140,000 and compared to a year ago numbers were up 44%

So much for the Romanian ambassador saying only 8,000 would come for the entire year! the government knew what would happen and did nothing

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...#disqus_thread
So the number of Romanians and Bulgarians in work has risen by 29,000 over 12 months, and fallen 4,000 in the first three quarters of 2014, and that makes UKIP right? :rofl:


Even UKIP's spokesman admitted on TV that it hasn't been as bad as they were claiming today.
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OMGWTFBBQ
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(Original post by SoggyTractor)
Does it change the fact that UKIP is a hypocritical, policy-less, structure-less, mostly racist party? No.
It doesn't change that fact because it isn't a fact to begin with.
UKIP has policies in a number of areas, a defined party structure and consitution, and an exclusion on members of far-right racist groups.
I cannot recall any time they have been hypocritical either.
How many of them can 'exploit the welfare system and take benefits'? Not many, thanks to the Tory measures.
Tory measures which are effective for an extremely short amount of time and are impotent against the loophole of going self employed.

How many of them are likely to leave soon? Probably quite a lot.
Pure conjecture. If anything, less than previous numbers as those that are here will feel that they've earned their welfare and want to wait it out until the Tory's welfare time-limit expires.

Remember they have come from extremely poor countries to the UK. They came because of a lack of opportunities back home.
Their home country has not improved since they arrived. Why would they leave now?
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DarkWhite
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(Original post by Ace123)
For all the shouts of scaremongering and LibLabCon saying UKIP were exaggerating and trying to frighten the public it now appears as if most people couldn't figure it out UKIP were right on immigration from Romania and Bulgaria

There are over 200,000 Romanians and Bulgarians in the UK, from the three months from January to March the figure increased by 30,000 at 10,000 per month. For the year this would represent 120,000 a year!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...now-in-UK.html
You've misinterpreted the article.

It actually said:

(Original post by The Telegraph)
predict that the figures will show at least 30,000 more Romanians and Bulgarians were working in the UK in the first three months of this year than during the same period in 2013.
This is entirely different. If 200,000 Romanians/Bulgarians are working in the UK during a 3-month period in 2014, and that this is 30,000 higher than in 2013, that is a rate of 30,000 per year.

UKIP claimed it would be 350,000-400,000, so this is 7.5-8.5% of what they scaremongered.

These are also not permanent residents, but workers. I've worked in Spain before, but it doesn't mean I've emigrated there.

By the way, that Telegraph article is, as my quote says, a 'prediction', and was published on 11th May.

The Office for National Statistics has published actual figures which show a 4,000 person decline in Romanians and Bulgarians working in the UK in the first three months of the year (the period where the working restrictions were lifted).

If you assume that the Telegraph's predictions are accurate (which evidently, they're not), then it wouldn't be down to the January working restrictions change at all; it would have been the last 9 months of 2013.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27407126
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BenL92
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There are plenty of opportunities in those countries, but not for the illiterate Roma - many of them are not willing to get an education. Yes, the wages in Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary etc. are much lower, but so are the costs of living. No one seems to mention that.

The Roma population in both countries is roughly 1.5 million and yet Farrage claims they are up to 4 million.
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redferry
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But what about the Australians?!?!?! Thousands more are flooding into our country year on year! The number of Bulgarians and Romanians working in this country have Fallen since 2013...but not the Australians! Numbers have risen by 7% !!!!! :eek:
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The Socktor
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Then why are you wasting precious time on the internet and not boarding up your windows? :rolleyes:
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NikolaT
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(Original post by DarkWhite)
UKIP claimed it would be 350,000-400,000, so this is 7.5-8.5% of what they scaremongered.

...

The Office for National Statistics has published actual figures which show a 4,000 person decline in Romanians and Bulgarians working in the UK in the first three months of the year (the period where the working restrictions were lifted).

If you assume that the Telegraph's predictions are accurate (which evidently, they're not), then it wouldn't be down to the January working restrictions change at all; it would have been the last 9 months of 2013.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27407126

This is all anyone needs to read in this thread. Bad thread, bad UKIP supporters.

Such a joke of a party.
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KimKallstrom
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(Original post by Aph)
Right let me know when you find a British person who has gone to uni after barely scraping though a levels who doesn't think that manual labour is below them
You mean a uni grad? That's a small proportion of British people.

I assure you that normal British people are more than willing to fill any given position. Unfortunately lots of positions are in fact advertised abroad in the first instance.

It's a shame but the competition that has been introduced is from people who will live 5 to a room and they'll do it because they're only doing it for a couple of years before moving back home. Based on this, employers assume they'll be working harder so they advertise direct to them before they've even gotten on the boat.

I'd be the best toilet cleaner in Lichtenstein history if I got £90k and I'd only have to do it for a little bit before buying house back home. That's precisely the situation the immigrants are benefiting from.

Also I take it you've never been a job center before.
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MagicNMedicine
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Here are the actual figures in today's labour market statistics:



Over the past year there has been a total increase of 741,000 in employment. Most of the country groupings have increased during this period of strong employment growth including Bulgarians and Romanians increasing by 29,000.

Over the past quarter there has been a total increase of 100,000 in employment of which Bulgarians and Romanians have decreased by 4,000. Bear in mind this is the quarter starting in January when the transitional controls came off Bulgaria and Romania and they got the same full access rights as the rest of the EU.

So UKIP weren't 'right' at all in their predictions that there would be masses of Romanians and Bulgarians coming taking jobs as soon as those restrictions were removed. The numbers fell in that quarter.

But as usual from UKIP's supporters like the OP they don't actually do any proper analysis of the facts and figures they just rely on leading with a disingenous headline "we were right on X" so that others that agree with them won't bother checking the true facts and will just nod along with them and say "yes UKIP are always right".

The interesting thing with these figures are that in the last quarter, of that 100,000 increase in employment only 5,000 are UK born. There were large increases in other groups, 74,000 increase from the A8 countries (Czech Rep, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovak Republic, Slovenia), 16,000 increase from India alone.

If UKIP does some analysis of their figures I wonder if they will switch their line of attack away from Bulgaria/Romania and back towards the general Eastern European countries that got accession in 2004. Or if they will mention the India point: over three times as much employment growth from Indians compared to British born in the past quarter. I suspect that given the current UKIP drive is to show they are not racist and parade black and asian candidates around, that they will shy away from attacking Indians here but there might be some mileage out of attacking Eastern Europeans.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
If UKIP does some analysis of their figures I wonder if they will switch their line of attack away from Bulgaria/Romania and back towards the general Eastern European countries that got accession in 2004. Or if they will mention the India point: over three times as much employment growth from Indians compared to British born in the past quarter. I suspect that given the current UKIP drive is to show they are not racist and parade black and asian candidates around, that they will shy away from attacking Indians here but there might be some mileage out of attacking Eastern Europeans.
Repped. Excellent post.

UKIP must be such a fun to place to work. Morning conference: 'Who shall we blame for Britain's economy today? - Poles/Lithuanians/Germans/Africa

Tomorrow lunch: 'Blog check - let's decide who to send the police round to'.
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chrisawhitmore
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(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
Here are the actual figures in today's labour market statistics:



Over the past year there has been a total increase of 741,000 in employment. Most of the country groupings have increased during this period of strong employment growth including Bulgarians and Romanians increasing by 29,000.

Over the past quarter there has been a total increase of 100,000 in employment of which Bulgarians and Romanians have decreased by 4,000. Bear in mind this is the quarter starting in January when the transitional controls came off Bulgaria and Romania and they got the same full access rights as the rest of the EU.

So UKIP weren't 'right' at all in their predictions that there would be masses of Romanians and Bulgarians coming taking jobs as soon as those restrictions were removed. The numbers fell in that quarter.

But as usual from UKIP's supporters like the OP they don't actually do any proper analysis of the facts and figures they just rely on leading with a disingenous headline "we were right on X" so that others that agree with them won't bother checking the true facts and will just nod along with them and say "yes UKIP are always right".

The interesting thing with these figures are that in the last quarter, of that 100,000 increase in employment only 5,000 are UK born. There were large increases in other groups, 74,000 increase from the A8 countries (Czech Rep, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovak Republic, Slovenia), 16,000 increase from India alone.

If UKIP does some analysis of their figures I wonder if they will switch their line of attack away from Bulgaria/Romania and back towards the general Eastern European countries that got accession in 2004. Or if they will mention the India point: over three times as much employment growth from Indians compared to British born in the past quarter. I suspect that given the current UKIP drive is to show they are not racist and parade black and asian candidates around, that they will shy away from attacking Indians here but there might be some mileage out of attacking Eastern Europeans.
They won't complain nearly as much about the Indian immigration because it doesn't make sense to, given that it's nothing to do with the EU. The point they're making is not that immigration is bad per se, but that having no control over the European portion makes it impossible to have a meaningful immigration policy, often to the detriment of the rest of the world (people want action on immigration, but we can't touch the EU, so politicians put unnecessarily harsh caps on non-EU immigration to compensate, with the end result that we lose out on skilled labour from non-EU countries in exchange for a mix of unskilled and skilled EU workers)

The Bulgaria/Romania stuff is a blow to UKIP, but given the stuff on the rest of Eastern Europe, not a major one. It may not have come from exactly the countries they predicted, but there's no difference between similarly skilled Romanian and Hungarian immigrant as far as the effect on the economy.
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MagicNMedicine
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
UKIP must be such a fun to place to work. Morning conference: 'Who shall we blame for Britain's economy today? - Poles/Lithuanians/Germans/Africa

Tomorrow lunch: 'Blog check - let's decide who to send the police round to'.
"Miles, get that new posh totty intern you've got to go and get us a round of coffees, and send her to check the incoming freepost while she's at it. Oh and Miles, I much preferred her when she came in a skirt on the first day....maybe have a word, you know?"

"Oh balderdash some council candidate has gone and tweeted that darkies in the army aren't proper British soldiers, that's going to cause such an awful hoo-haa".
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by MagicNMedicine)

"Oh balderdash some council candidate has gone and tweeted that darkies in the army aren't proper British soldiers, that's going to cause such an awful hoo-haa".
"Gawd yes, I mean we all know it's true Nigel, but really, we do need to stop the rank and file from saying it."
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redferry
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Repped. Excellent post.

UKIP must be such a fun to place to work. Morning conference: 'Who shall we blame for Britain's economy today? - Poles/Lithuanians/Germans/Africa

Tomorrow lunch: 'Blog check - let's decide who to send the police round to'.
Its the Australians we should be worrying about I tell you!!!!!
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by redferry)
Its the Australians we should be worrying about I tell you!!!!!
UKIP policy in a nutshell.

'We like each other. Anyone not white, English, male and old, we don't like.'
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