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    (Original post by elpistolero7)
    So you're saying WAGS are useless?? :eek:
    No... Of course not... What would give you that- yes.
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    Some of the people on this thread make it seem like cleaning your house, shopping and doing laundry take up 8 hours of your day, every day. They don't.

    Besides, you can pay someone to clean your house and keep it spotless, you can get groceries delivered to your house, etc etc. The only thing that takes any real time at all is cooking, but you can make great-tasting nutritious meals very easily in under 30 minutes.
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    (Original post by LolaLowe)
    When you have two working adults with children then both adults should reasonably expect to share the job of looking after and running the house and looking after the children. For most people this means everyone getting home at 5 from school and work, meal to be cooked, house to clean, laundry, homework, paperwork etc. If one party (man or woman) is willing to take on the job of looking after those things instead of being employed then it means evenings and weekends are free from chores for the employed adult and family life can be enjoyed.

    I'd far rather kids and husband come home to a clean house with a home cooked meal, all paperwork done and a relaxed and happy family sharing quality time together, than a chaotic place where everyone is busy and nobody has time for themselves or each other.
    I see what you're saying, but "chaotic" is a bit of an extreme word to use! With a bit of time-management, it's perfectly possible to have a good home life when both parents work full time.
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    I see what you're saying, but "chaotic" is a bit of an extreme word to use! With a bit of time-management, it's perfectly possible to have a good home life when both parents work full time.
    I agree many people manage it just fine. Chaotic is my word for how it seems to me, I'm sure its just normal life to many people.

    Nobody is suggesting it takes all day to clean a house, it doesn't, but there is more to running a household than cleaning. How many people have to do all the maintenance on their house at the weekend? mowing lawns, DIY, decorating...all that can be done thru the week. Washing and ironing for four people takes time. Plus paperwork takes a few hours a week like banking etc, then children need haircuts, regular dentist/optician visits, then there is all the school stuff that is good to be involved in that many parents dont get to do.

    Each to their own, I know some people who feel that being employed makes them a better person to come home to despite the inevitable bickering that happens when two people are tired and there is a mountain of stuff to do, or who takes time off with a sick child etc. Thats great. But for me to have a husband whose free time is any time he is not in the office, and kids who have a calm and relaxed parent who can devote any amount of time to them that they want or need, is worth a career break of a couple of decades.
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    (Original post by LolaLowe)
    I agree many people manage it just fine. Chaotic is my word for how it seems to me, I'm sure its just normal life to many people.

    Nobody is suggesting it takes all day to clean a house, it doesn't, but there is more to running a household than cleaning. How many people have to do all the maintenance on their house at the weekend? mowing lawns, DIY, decorating...all that can be done thru the week. Washing and ironing for four people takes time. Plus paperwork takes a few hours a week like banking etc, then children need haircuts, regular dentist/optician visits, then there is all the school stuff that is good to be involved in that many parents dont get to do.

    Each to their own, I know some people who feel that being employed makes them a better person to come home to despite the inevitable bickering that happens when two people are tired and there is a mountain of stuff to do, or who takes time off with a sick child etc. Thats great. But for me to have a husband whose free time is any time he is not in the office, and kids who have a calm and relaxed parent who can devote any amount of time to them that they want or need, is worth a career break of a couple of decades.
    While I understand that it's a matter of preference and that many people, especially women, enjoy looking after their families, I don't think it's fair or accurate to insinuate that families with only one working parent are somehow better, more stable or happier than families with two working parents.

    I think I would personally prefer my family splitting the chores and helping each other out. I think it would help us appreciate each what we do for each other, because I do feel that sometimes people under-appreciate all the work housewives do for their families.

    Besides, I would go insane out of my mind if I didn't have something else to focus on other than housework. I've never been particularly good at domestic stuff, but I am very ambitious and hard-working in other ways. I would love to have a career where I can work towards something and keep moving up the ladder and achieving more.

    Also, in this economy I think it would be less stressful to have both partners working, in case one of the partners gets made redundant or something.

    But, like you said, each to their own!
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    While I understand that it's a matter of preference and that many people, especially women, enjoy looking after their families, I don't think it's fair or accurate to insinuate that families with only one working parent are somehow better, more stable or happier than families with two working parents.

    I think I would personally prefer my family splitting the chores and helping each other out. I think it would help us appreciate each what we do for each other, because I do feel that sometimes people under-appreciate all the work housewives do for their families.

    Besides, I would go insane out of my mind if I didn't have something else to focus on other than housework. I've never been particularly good at domestic stuff, but I am very ambitious and hard-working in other ways. I would love to have a career where I can work towards something and keep moving up the ladder and achieving more.

    Also, in this economy I think it would be less stressful to have both partners working, in case one of the partners gets made redundant or something.

    But, like you said, each to their own!
    I didnt mean to insinuate that one system is better than another, just that I have a strong preference about what seems better for me personally. I have a friend with a high flying banking career, she openly admits she has missed sports days, school plays, dentists and dedicated homework time etc with her kids, but on the other hand she has a very high disposable income, both her kids have a trust fund and they have kick-ass holidays, so its swings and roundabouts!
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    (Original post by LolaLowe)
    I didnt mean to insinuate that one system is better than another, just that I have a strong preference about what seems better for me personally. I have a friend with a high flying banking career, she openly admits she has missed sports days, school plays, dentists and dedicated homework time etc with her kids, but on the other hand she has a very high disposable income, both her kids have a trust fund and they have kick-ass holidays, so its swings and roundabouts!
    Fair enough.

    I think a lot depends on the individual and the type of career they have. I know plenty of families where both parents work and they have a very stable home life, even more so than mine when only my dad works.
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    I think the most important principle here is choice. People should ideally have the opportunity either to work, or to stay at home with the kids. And I don't think they should be judged for making certain decisions.

    Having said that, I do believe that a woman who opts to be a stay-at-home Mum permanently is selling herself short. Sure, when the kids are younger its great to have at least one of the parents around full-time. But when they're a little older, I think it's good for both Mum and the kids for Mum to have a profession.

    My Mum did not work until I started school, she went back into the workforce and is a senior civil servant in the Treasury of my home state (back home in Aus). As well as being my Mum, whom I can go to for love and support, I also have tremendous respect for her as a professional, I know I can always ask for her advice on work issues, on feedback on some of the more complex pieces of work I do for my employer, on how to navigate office politics, and so on. I really like the fact that our relationship is more than just that I love her, but that I look up to her as someone who has much wisdom, who is supremely confident and an intellectual force in her own right.

    I wouldn't have that if she'd always been a stay-at-home Mum. I respect the decision of those women who do, but I value that my Mum has these other sides to her.
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    My mum was a housewife until I was 15 (and my youngest sibling was 11) then she went back to the career she used to have prior to having children. As well as taking us to school, doing activities with us, teaching all of us to read, cooking, cleaning, running a brownie pack, being a school governor at a primary school and a junior school, being captain of the local boating club... She did a lot. There were women she knew who had au pairs, cleaners, nannies etc and did spend the vast amount of their time just doing what they wanted to do, but they had the income to support that lifestyle. She also knew stay at home mums who had evening jobs in supermarkets or restaurants when their partners were back from work and could keep an eye on the kids. I think making generalisations about housewives is detrimental, a lot can be said about them is untrue and a housewife isn't necessarily unemployed or lazy, in fact raising children can be a daunting task (especially if you have a lot of them!) and if anything the term housewife is almost synonymous with "not the breadwinner". I think if you want to be a housewife (or house husband) it's great for the children and is a perfectly pleasant way of life. And there's nothing wrong with that. Choice is the key factor.
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    (Original post by GoodbyeHorses)
    This is very good. It's getting more and more difficult to find women who know their role in life these days.
    So you believe, in other words, that women belong in the kitchen?
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    (Original post by Катя)
    So you believe, in other words, that women belong in the kitchen?
    No, but 9 out fo 10 women on those shows where a couple is looking for a new house seem too. Look at their faces when they see a small, old looking kitchen. They look like their GP just told them they have terminal cancer.
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    I believe they are largely irrelevant because people can't afford to live like that anymore. Very few people earn enough to support their partner as well as their children so most families need the second wage earner to at least work part-time to support the standard of living they expect. I imagine a lot of housewives/husbands get lonely with only the children to talk to all day unless they have a strong support network of people in the same position. I think it's important to have a social life outside of the family - you don't want to be reliant on your partner for all your social needs as well as financially.
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    (Original post by GoodbyeHorses)
    No, but 9 out fo 10 women on those shows where a couple is looking for a new house seem too. Look at their faces when they see a small, old looking kitchen. They look like their GP just told them they have terminal cancer.
    You're a very odd sort of person.
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    (Original post by Катя)
    You're a very odd sort of person.
    At least I'm not a great big fat person.
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    (Original post by Huskaris)
    A proportion of women greater than 20% but less than 80% (so as not to be told I am generalising, generally there's a tickbox when talking to certain members on here which turns a simple statement into a 4 paragraph terms and conditions box) do not respect each other's choices.

    Try asking women about breast feeding, caesareans, whether lazing about all day at home is work etc, you will find they militantly defend what they do and rule other things out as incorrect.

    And that's without talking about stuff like naked modelling, porn, abortions etc.

    People disagree with each other, there isn't some sort of sisterhood where all women get along and respect each other's choices at all!
    I agree. However being a feminist should be about respecting women's choices and anyone who doesn't do that is not a feminist
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    I agree. However being a feminist should be about respecting women's choices and anyone who doesn't do that is not a feminist
    So there's two types of feminist.

    The type that says that you have to agree with ME or you are not a feminist

    And the type that says you have to agree with THEM or you are not a feminist.

    I am glad we have cleared that up, I feel enlightened
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    (Original post by (Ari))
    What will you do when your children are in school from 9-3:30? Paperwork/shopping isn't an everyday task, cooking doesn't take 6 hours, neither does cleaning the house, and the stuff you mention doing with your kids can only be done during the afternoons and weekends once they're four years old and off to day school. Sounds like you just don't want to work tbh.
    It does if you do it properly. If you cook from scratch and spend time on it

    Also why limit those things to evenings and weekends? It's not I don't want to work more that I actually want a relationship with my kids and not Palm them off to some stranger
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    (Original post by Huskaris)
    So there's two types of feminist.

    The type that says that you have to agree with ME or you are not a feminist

    And the type that says you have to agree with THEM or you are not a feminist.

    I am glad we have cleared that up, I feel enlightened
    What? No...
    But tbh whatever I say you'll stick to making smart arse comments because that's what you do isn't it
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    (Original post by Clip)
    Most feminists I have met reserve the right to label any woman's choice they don't like as being coerced by men.
    Yeah and those "feminists" are disgusting

    (Original post by elpistolero7)
    To be fair, the stuff with the ids does sound nice . I should, perhaps, have mentioned that my opinion is one that's slightly more extreme in that I'm very driven career minded, so the concept of being a house husband/housewife is alien to me.

    What you describe does sound quite nice though, although I still think you'd have an awful lot of spare time. If it makes someone and their partner happy though, they should go for it.

    Then again, I think you could do most of those things (barring the cooking and cleaning, which if you split with your partner/hire someone to do), you'd have enough time for a full proper career and enough time to be a hands on mom who spends a lot of time with the kids. Not everyone wants that though and that's a fair enough preference to have.
    I think it just depends how a couple wants to. Someone might choose to have equal financial contribution and equal effort on chores someone might choose to have one person doing finance and one doing chores. It's the individuals or couples decision
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    It depends. If the housewife is a type of person who cooks, looks after the kids, does the groceries, organises the bills and makes sure the tax is paid on time etc., then yes. However, if they have a nanny, a butler and a cleaner to help them with the house and take the kids to school because she has a mani-pedi and luncheon in the afternoon, then absolutely not.
 
 
 
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