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This country is a complete joke. Watch

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    (Original post by teen1234)
    'We are going to get laughed at'
    OH NO PLEASE GOD NO. NOT THAT.
    I mean mass genocide, governmental racism, death penalties, legalised child marriages is fine. But please, not other people laughing at us
    I'm referring to the Military here, not social and political factors in the UK.
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    (Original post by Sanctimonious)
    Because none of this happens in the UK right? Let's not pretend none of this is happening in the UK. If you think it all isn't then you're incredibly naive.
    They do, but not even close to other countries in terms of the regularity or severity.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    I'm referring to the Military here, not social and political factors in the UK.
    Your thread is called 'This country is a joke'
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    (Original post by Clip)
    I wouldn't worry too much. Things have been much worse and they always sort themselves out. Before Peyps, the RN was in absolute meltdown and we basically had no Navy. After the first Options for Change, we still had loads of infantry - but as it turns out we were pretty incapable of doing anything with it. Before the Falklands, our Army was much bigger - but as it turns out not very good at dealing with anything other than rolling around the German countryside.


    I also would caution against all this Laconophilia. The Spartans were really overrated. The only reason they got to be "professional" soldiers of the day was by not only owning slaves, but effectively enslaving the native Helots. Outside of the Peloponnesian Wars and some sallies against the Persians, the Spartans rarely went to war because they were too scared of a domestic uprising by the Helots. They were also rubbish at Naval Warfare, didn't get seige warfare and were everyone's *****es at Pylos.
    Look at how much men that cost though. How many people were killed due to sheer senseless idiocy and incompetence. Absolutely no planning in the long term, and zero plan of actions for such things such as war occurring. Just about to scrap half the bloody navy, and it was only the Argies that saved us. (And then killed a few hundred more)

    I know what the Spartans were. (I used the video as a expression. I would be the Leonidas on the left at some point in the future, and a bunch of reservists/civil servants come along and **** about) I'm not purposefully being a prick, I'm a reservist myself.
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    (Original post by teen1234)
    Your thread is called 'This country is a joke'
    It is in terms of foreign and defence policy.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Prison and police is fair enough and respectable, but I really can't even see 1% of the civil service being able to become effective reservists. We are going to get laughed at and not taken seriously.

    Lets not pretend the OTC is anything like the regulars, or even reserves. Although the OTC has become a lot more serious in its aims and training standards since 2011 (quite a lot actually to be fair), it's not the same.

    I feel that this drive to get civil servants to join the reserves is nothing more than a last stand by the MoD before they admit they were wrong.
    Well, 1, no Government department will ever admit they were wrong... but no, it's not just a ploy to do that, or else they'd ask for more than 1% per department.

    And I don't see why that would be the case, who's laughed at the members of the TA over the past 60 years? They've always been pretty well respected, as well trained as they could be and keen to get stuck in. The way you're going on about it you make it sound like these reservists are going to be deployed on their own, everybody - and I'm including you in this - knows that that's utter nonsense. They'll only ever get deployed with regular personnel and getting brought into the regular force structure, so I fail to see what the problem is in having a larger reserve force.

    Who cares if people laugh at us, when we're in the field we'll still be British Forces and we'll still be effective. Let them laugh - makes our job easier if they're not prepared.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Well, 1, no Government department will ever admit they were wrong... but no, it's not just a ploy to do that, or else they'd ask for more than 1% per department.

    And I don't see why that would be the case, who's laughed at the members of the TA over the past 60 years? They've always been pretty well respected, as well trained as they could be and keen to get stuck in. The way you're going on about it you make it sound like these reservists are going to be deployed on their own, everybody - and I'm including you in this - knows that that's utter nonsense. They'll only ever get deployed with regular personnel and getting brought into the regular force structure, so I fail to see what the problem is in having a larger reserve force.

    Who cares if people laugh at us, when we're in the field we'll still be British Forces and we'll still be effective. Let them laugh - makes our job easier if they're not prepared.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...-with-regulars

    Pretty much. Integrated into a company means **** all when you are out in the field.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Look at how much men that cost though. How many people were killed due to sheer senseless idiocy and incompetence. Absolutely no planning in the long term, and zero plan of actions for such things such as war occurring. Just about to scrap half the bloody navy, and it was only the Argies that saved us. (And then killed a few hundred more)

    I know what the Spartans were. (I used the video as a expression. I would be the Leonidas on the left at some point in the future, and a bunch of reservists/civil servants come along and **** about)
    We're never going to make the right decisions long-term. No-one goes into this thinking "let's really mess up the Armed Forces" (except maybe Gordon Brown). Everyone has at least some good intent - it's just that it's impossible to plan and structure for the future and defence projects always, always cost far too much.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...-with-regulars

    Pretty much. Integrated into a company means **** all when you are out in the field.
    From that very source:

    "We will represent around 20% of the group alongside 200 Irish Guards. It is a great opportunity to learn from our regular counterparts while bringing our own unique skills to the operation."

    So, they're not deploying on their own. They're not forming the majority or even half of a formed unit. They're learning from the Regulars.

    Yeah... that's a disaster...
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    (Original post by Clip)
    We're never going to make the right decisions long-term. No-one goes into this thinking "let's really mess up the Armed Forces" (except maybe Gordon Brown). Everyone has at least some good intent - it's just that it's impossible to plan and structure for the future and defence projects always, always cost far too much.
    I could probably make a good few educated guesses where he next threat comes from in order to plan and structure our future defence and strategic assets. And it would probably end up being cheaper too.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    I could probably make a good few educated guesses where he next threat comes from in order to plan and structure our future defence and strategic assets. And it would probably end up being cheaper too.
    You think you could. Do you honestly think that no-one in any part of the General Staff or MoD has had any similar well intentioned ideas?

    I have a great plan for undermining terrorism and insurgency worldwide, but no doubt it is full of unforeseen holes and consequences. That's why I'm not in MI6.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    From that very source:

    "We will represent around 20% of the group alongside 200 Irish Guards. It is a great opportunity to learn from our regular counterparts while bringing our own unique skills to the operation."

    So, they're not deploying on their own. They're not forming the majority or even half of a formed unit. They're learning from the Regulars.

    Yeah... that's a disaster...
    No they are deploying within a regular company, but they are operating at a platoon level on their own. So whilst they are being mentored at the moment by regulars, they won't have access to that when they ship off to Cyprus. Other than those Guardsmen and a few G4's, they will be on their own. Now they do have full pre deployment training as per, however the rest of the reserves do not. Whilst the regulars (all of them) are practically deployable, give or take a few months, the reservist on the whole are not. Not by a mile. Lets remember the London regiment has 600 + members. If such a situation was to arise, those 600 members would basically have to go through a lot of rudimentary training, before they even get onto the pre deployment stuff. Then you have the other 15 00 - 20 000 (whatever numbers suits your fancy because nobody actually seems to know) who need the same.

    The underlying point is that they are being deployed on their own in independent units. A platoon is still an independent unit.
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    (Original post by Clip)
    You think you could. Do you honestly think that no-one in any part of the General Staff or MoD has had any similar well intentioned ideas?

    I have a great plan for undermining terrorism and insurgency worldwide, but no doubt it is full of unforeseen holes and consequences. That's why I'm not in MI6.
    Honestly? No. I have zero confidence in the general staff and MoD. Maybe there are a few good eggs at staff level like Major General Sanders, but on the whole, no; I don't think they have good intentions.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Honestly? No. I have zero confidence in the general staff and MoD. Maybe there are a few good eggs at staff level like Major General Sanders, but on the whole, no; I don't think they have good intentions.
    So you honestly believe that they have ill intent and want to actively make the Armed Forces worse?
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    (Original post by Clip)
    So you honestly believe that they have ill intent and want to actively make the Armed Forces worse?
    I very much believe that yes. I despise a lot of people in the General staff. I do think a lot of them have ill intent. In fact, I think many pose more of a threat to national security (chumming up to fellow NATO generals, the USA and various Middle Eastern Sultans who shall not be named at SOFEX et al), than anything else. Hence the high treason remark earlier.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Honestly? No. I have zero confidence in the general staff and MoD. Maybe there are a few good eggs at staff level like Major General Sanders, but on the whole, no; I don't think they have good intentions.
    Because you know them all...?


    The Forces have always been dealt a ****ty stick, you know that perfectly well, but they make them work. Plans right now won't be perfect, hence why an early deployment under the new model is to a place where nothing ever happens bar extinguishing a few forest fires and dealing with sunstroke. Plans will be refined and lessons learned and implemented in the future. Like it has been forever.

    Calling it a disaster before it's even had chance to prove you right is nothing more than typical defeatism.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Because you know them all...?


    The Forces have always been dealt a ****ty stick, you know that perfectly well, but they make them work. Plans right now won't be perfect, hence why an early deployment under the new model is to a place where nothing ever happens bar extinguishing a few forest fires and dealing with sunstroke. Plans will be refined and lessons learned and implemented in the future. Like it has been forever.

    Calling it a disaster before it's even had chance to prove you right is nothing more than typical defeatism.
    Not on a personal best friend level no and other such rubbish, although I have met a few personally, and a lot of the others I have researched up on/ read biographies/ journals etc. I dislike many I met (other than Sanders) and the others I have read up on have made ill judged or incompetent decisions. The one I like to refer to (personal favourite and has recently come out in book format) is the buffoon who decided it was a good idea to send in 60 guys against 30 000 men of the Iraqi 5th corps, and a couple of thousand extra of the Fedayeen.

    Also, kind of related to the military culture, but when half the board of general staff have mistresses, you know that their loyalty is questionable. They have no integrity, and are not ethically fit to lead or command men.



    I'm fed up of the forces being ****ted on for the past 100 years. It's better to be defeatist now and tell them how **** their plans are, than wait till they are actually needed for real and pretend to act all surprised and other such bull*** when things go pear shaped, lethal mistakes are made and people die needlessly. Here I refer to Sun Tzu.
 
 
 
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