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    (Original post by Cryptographic)
    That way we would only be left with London and the SE.
    Right, ok then.
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    Aye.
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    Aye!
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    Nay. I thought 18th century petty and provocative squabbling over rocks was a dead policy.
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    (Original post by Mechie)
    Right, ok then.
    Scotland produces a deficit (%-wise) equal to rUK average.
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    (Original post by Cryptographic)
    Scotland produces a deficit (%-wise) equal to rUK average.
    Does it aye? Is that why all the Westminster politicians are so keen to keep Scotland?
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    (Original post by Mechie)
    Does it aye? Is that why all the Westminster politicians are so keen to keep Scotland?
    Money shouldn't really come into it. We have strong cultural ties, now a charismatic idiot in a suit knows how to lie on TV, now that is placing all we have together at risk. Even if money was important, the rUK has bankrolled Scotland ever since it rescued it from it's self inflicted disaster. Only in 2001 has Scotland ever produced a surplus. However like all regions of the UK, they have their good points (NE in the day, London & SE today.) and their bad financial points (NE today). Furthermore, if it was all about money, a sensible option would have never been to take it aboard.

    Head over to the Scottish Independence thread, I have a feeling that your fellow unhinged will greet you.
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    (Original post by This Is Matt)
    Losing the ability to secure ships in the Mediterranean and the Middle East will make UK trade more vulnerable and damage the economy. Gibraltar contributes towards an economic advantage




    You two didn't read the report, did you? You do realise their report calls for legal action to be taken in EU/UN courts and to involve both bodies?
    There is no need. This could be resolved between the countries involved in a civil manner if the will were there.
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    (Original post by This Is Matt)
    Losing the ability to secure ships in the Mediterranean and the Middle East will make UK trade more vulnerable and damage the economy. Gibraltar contributes towards an economic advantage
    Perhaps we could agree to give Gibraltar to Spain in exchange for the right to use their Mediterranean ports.
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    (Original post by O133)
    Perhaps we could agree to give Gibraltar to Spain in exchange for the right to use their Mediterranean ports.
    Where is the sense in that? You give away an entire segment of land which generates loads from tourism and has been a strategic base for over a 100 years just negotiate with Spain to use the same base (Gibraltar has probably the best location for a Mediterranean bas).

    That's a lose-lose situation. Not only are British bases under the control of Spain (what if Spain wanted to end the agreement 20 years down the line?) but there will need to be massive rehousing of the Gibraltarian people who have overwhelmingly voted to maintain the status-quo.

    Considering Gibraltar is not an economic drain on Britain and provides a huge strategic advantage to Britain, I must missing the big reason to give it away. Care to explain?
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    (Original post by This Is Matt)
    Where is the sense in that? You give away an entire segment of land which generates loads from tourism and has been a strategic base for over a 100 years just negotiate with Spain to use the same base (Gibraltar has probably the best location for a Mediterranean bas).

    That's a lose-lose situation. Not only are British bases under the control of Spain (what if Spain wanted to end the agreement 20 years down the line?) but there will need to be massive rehousing of the Gibraltarian people who have overwhelmingly voted to maintain the status-quo.

    Considering Gibraltar is not an economic drain on Britain and provides a huge strategic advantage to Britain, I must missing the big reason to give it away. Care to explain?
    The question is whether it is important enough to actively seek to retain it Falklands-style in the case of an invasion (although the EU connection should avoid that) or whether conflict could be settled with a treaty gifting Spain sovereignty but with Britain maintaining use of the port (plus English-language rights for the Gibraltarians).
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    Sadly I see the British government feeling this way about Northern Ireland (I am from Northern Ireland). The problem is the territory that the UK own will all be lost should they take this approach. This isn't the way forward!

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Just made my day
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    (Original post by O133)
    The question is whether it is important enough to actively seek to retain it Falklands-style in the case of an invasion (although the EU connection should avoid that) or whether conflict could be settled with a treaty gifting Spain sovereignty but with Britain maintaining use of the port (plus English-language rights for the Gibraltarians).
    If Spain used any sort of military power then the words 'crippling sanctions', 'ostracization' and 'backing of Catalan Independence' come to mind.
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    (Original post by O133)
    The question is whether it is important enough to actively seek to retain it Falklands-style in the case of an invasion (although the EU connection should avoid that) or whether conflict could be settled with a treaty gifting Spain sovereignty but with Britain maintaining use of the port (plus English-language rights for the Gibraltarians).
    You suggested handing it over before any hint of a Spanish invasion. There is no conflict to settle and there is no need for a treaty as of yet. You essentially said Gibraltar should be handed over just in case Spain choose to invade. Why do that?

    Surely, instead of handing Gibraltar over just in case the sanctions proposed by Cryptographic are a batter line of defence?
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    (Original post by This Is Matt)
    You suggested handing it over before any hint of a Spanish invasion. There is no conflict to settle and there is no need for a treaty as of yet. You essentially said Gibraltar should be handed over just in case Spain choose to invade. Why do that?

    Surely, instead of handing Gibraltar over just in case the sanctions proposed by Cryptographic are a batter line of defence?
    I did mean only if tensions heighten and we are looking at military action.

    It depends on how other countries view the Gibraltar situation as to whether sanctions are likely to be effective, we certainly can't have effective sanctions working alone.
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    An aye for I!
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    There hasn't been a legitimate reason given by the Spanish to cede Gibraltar to them, yet they continue to cause disruption to the lives of the Gibraltarians, purely for their decision to stay in Britain. These persistent acts of harassment should not and cannot be tolerated for much longer.
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    Abstain



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    Eh, I suppose. I'm by no means blindly wedded to British sovereignty but while it remains British and the people who live there wish to be British, Spain should respect that.
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    Abstain. I agree with Blue's comments about the Gibraltans (correct demonym?) being British and wishing to remain British, I don't believe playing hard ball with Spain will do anything but increase tensions.
 
 
 
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