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Isn't reproduction technically child abuse? Watch

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    (Original post by ILovePancakes)
    Simply this.
    But at a certain point in a mother's womb we decide that it is a human being and don't allow abortion past that point.
    So at that point it is something that is due to be given birth to without being asked.

    I accept that we can't ask a child whether it would wish to be born. But we can make educated guesses as to what it might prefer to be born in to.

    Not a crime ridden estate with poor local schools for a start.

    Of course some great, happy, people have been born in relatively unillustrious places. In fact they might be amongst the most interesting people who have ever been born. But their character is partly in passionate- or desperate- opposition to their circumstances rather than because of them. Not everyone should be expected to have such 'will to power'. Especially when 'rules of life' more useful to public school people like 'It's the taking part that matters, not the winning' serve to keep down those born in to less silvery spoon circumstances.
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    (Original post by Nogoodsorgods)
    But at a certain point in a mother's womb we decide that it is a human being and don't allow abortion past that point.
    So at that point it is something that is due to be given birth to without being asked.

    I accept that we can't ask a child whether it would wish to be born. But we can make educated guesses as to what it might prefer to be born in to.

    Not a crime ridden estate with poor local schools for a start.

    Of course some great, happy, people have been born in relatively unillustrious places. In fact they might be amongst the most interesting people who have ever been born. But their character is partly in passionate- or desperate- opposition to their circumstances rather than because of them. Not everyone should be expected to have such 'will to power'. Especially when 'rules of life' more useful to public school people like 'It's the taking part that matters, not the winning' serve to keep down those born in to less silvery spoon circumstances.
    I would argue that the act of being born isn't child abuse then. The abuse occurs whilst the child is growing up.

    Regardless, childline define child abuse as such:
    Child abuse consists of any act of commission or omission that endangers or impairs a child’s physical or emotional health and development. Child abuse includes any damage done to a child which cannot be reasonably explained and which is often represented by an injury or series of injuries appearing to be non-accidental in nature.

    http://www.childhelp.org/pages/what-is-child-abuse

    Surely just because a child is not brought up in a relatively 'safe' area, this does not mean that they are being abused. A child born into a poor family may receive the same, if not more, love and commitment from its parent than a child being born into a family that is more well off. Would you still say that this child is being abused?
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    Not giving children free will does not amount to child abuse. In many cases, giving them a choice is tantamount to child abuse by neglect.
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    Don't know whats more Strange, OP making this thread or people giving detailed comments.
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    (Original post by QuantumSuicide)
    This is why i secretly curse my parents everyday i wake up from sleep. If i had the choice i would defo choose to not be born

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    *looks at username* yep.
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    (Original post by BlueSam3)
    Not giving children free will does not amount to child abuse. In many cases, giving them a choice is tantamount to child abuse by neglect.
    By what justification should children not have free will? Because they don't know better? Surely you could argue the same about particular mentally ill people, people with a low IQ, people who wear socks with sandals, etc, etc, etc...

    Any other relationship in which one member is forced (literally until the age of 16 in the UK) to take part fully in said relationship, to love and cherish the other(s) for potentially the entirety of their life would be considered abusive, why does the relationship between a child and a parent not?
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    By what justification should children not have free will? Because they don't know better?
    If you knowingly allow a child to run into the middle of a busy road, you are entirely and completely guilty of child neglect.

    Surely you could argue the same about particular mentally ill people, people with a low IQ, people who wear socks with sandals, etc, etc, etc...
    And the former (who are the only ones to whom this is relevant) are already cared for in ways that ignore their free will.

    Any other relationship in which one member is forced (literally until the age of 16 in the UK) to take part fully in said relationship, to love and cherish the other(s) for potentially the entirety of their life would be considered abusive, why does the relationship between a child and a parent not?
    What the **** are you talking about? This has absolutely nothing to do with what is being discussed whatsoever.
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    Having thought about my topic, I now realise that it's a little stupid.

    We do end up learning from our mistakes. We do learn to be passionate about things. We do learn when to lead and when to fit in.

    As such, it is nice to be alive in a world that has such natural beauty, beautiful buildings, gardens / landscapes, art (sometimes), hard working people striving for an aim.
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    (Original post by Nogoodsorgods)
    When a baby is born, it has no choice in the matter of whether it wishes to come in to this world.

    To not give someone a choice in a matter is to deprive them of free will.

    Not only that but you will be bringing them in to a world in which 99.99% of people might not even specifically care about them- or have the time / emotion / intellect to show that they care about them.

    A world in which they could experience great pain - physical, emotional, intellectual - at any point which could last a lifetime depending on how sensitive they are or how supportive the people in their environment are.

    A world in which some of the greatest people who have lived are dead, not close to hand or who never had the appreciation that they deserved in their own lifetime - or even after that.

    A world in which they are at the mercy of choices denied to them - such as where and when they are born and often which school they will go to.

    If a parent feels that it gives it childs adequate love, they form that opinion subjectively based on how they feel that their child's upbringing compares to their own. And family love is sometimes no weapon against uncaring 'society'. So the child has to learn how to fend for themselves. Someone who never even asked to be born is put in an unavoidable situation where they have to conquer, adapt, be controlled or shrink away. None of these options is sufficient enough for clever and sensitive children that they would have happy enough lives. Because in order to preserve their sensitivity they have to conquer which means that they compromise their very sensitivity. So by being born, which they were not given a choice in, they are forced to deny their very self. If that is not a supreme example of child abuse- at an existential level- I don't know what is.

    If God exists, God no doubt wants some (not necessarily all) to reproduce.
    But if God exists God surely wouldn't make life so very hard on some of the young. It's hard for the young to even look at some adults - adults who are walking embodiments of failure in many cases.

    But if God does not exist (as many say) there is no objective yardstick that says that reproduction is a good. Just because it might feel nice having sex doesn't mean that its possible product is necessarily a good.

    and then comes the eternal soul...
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    (Original post by Nogoodsorgods)
    Having thought about my topic, I now realise that it's a little stupid.

    We do end up learning from our mistakes. We do learn to be passionate about things. We do learn when to lead and when to fit in.

    As such, it is nice to be alive in a world that has such natural beauty, beautiful buildings, gardens / landscapes, art (sometimes), hard working people striving for an aim.
    You had started wise and ended stupid.

    If you don't know that there is something, you cannot care about it, not to mention about the situation in which you are not yet alive. When you come alive, there are some nice things that is going to happen to you, but lot's of sufferings also. And you are going to lose everything because you will die anyway.

    Still, we can't stop reproducing because the religious people will not stop on their own so they will continue to spread sufferings forever, untill the human kind will be killed by a natural disaster, or they will start a nuclear war or something, for some religious reason...
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    (Original post by PTMalewski)
    You had started wise and ended stupid.

    If you don't know that there is something, you cannot care about it, not to mention about the situation in which you are not yet alive. When you come alive, there are some nice things that is going to happen to you, but lot's of sufferings also. And you are going to lose everything because you will die anyway.

    Still, we can't stop reproducing because the religious people will not stop on their own so they will continue to spread sufferings forever, untill the human kind will be killed by a natural disaster, or they will start a nuclear war or something, for some religious reason...
    PT, thank you for now making me admit that I do wholly agree with my original post. Because of its uncompromising nature, its is awkward to want to agree with it.

    Reproduction happens for all kinds of psychological reasons - faith, vanity, desperation, lust, rape, and sometimes what is called love but who can sometimes separate that from some of the former.

    Whatever the reason, the child has no choice in being born. They could be born to the most brilliant of parents there is but if they happen to live in a hostile neighbourhood - in itself or to them personally- it's not going to be a bed of roses.

    Why risk giving someone any thorns in their life that might twist all their love in to forms that are not recognisable to most people as being loving forms?

    Why bring an innocent, good, loving, clever child in to a world where 'intellectuals' decided that, to some extent, cocky cynicism within the boundaries of a comfortable middle class existence, is 'de rigeur'. This has filtered in to how the working classes have seen themselves, particularly as some of their offspring have gone to university themselves.
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    Stupid thread
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    (Original post by Roger1)
    Stupid thread
    If you think that the thread is stupid, then don't visit the "philosophy". Perhaps in your opinion, a question "What is that is, which is in everything that is?" or "How to prove that the world exists?" would be stupid, but asking that sort of questions was necesary to discover the logic laws, and develop analitical skills.
    Perhaps a necessity to give birth to another future-deads is a dogma for you, but ignoring problems is not a way to solve them.
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    This is such a stupid thread, wow are we becoming more and more messed up.

    People who wish they're were never born etc , maybe you guys suffer from depression and should probably visit a clinic or something.

    I love my life, I've gone through hard times but i still love it.
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    I've read some pretty messed up views on here but this takes the medal. To answer your question, no. It is not child abuse. You don't even need to think about it especially not as ridiculously deeply as you have. It is N O T.
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    (Original post by goobypls)
    This is such a stupid thread, wow are we becoming more and more messed up.

    People who wish they're were never born etc , maybe you guys suffer from depression and should probably visit a clinic or something.

    I love my life, I've gone through hard times but i still love it.
    Don't get me wrong brah. I'm not depressed or anything and I lead a fairly decent life. I just wish i wasn't born because life is completely trivial with the some sad moments and some wicked moments. I'd rather be non-existent than go through this life. Non-existence seems quite appealing, just like how i was before i was born.

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    ...is this a joke?
    You have got to be kidding. Making new life is natural, its not child abuse. You're saying its wrong to reproduce as the child born has no choice but to live and experience life. I'm pretty sure this is just because you personally feel that you are 'sensitive' and can't handle life. I think its pretty stupid that you would rather wish nothing existed than to get help for your problems. Try talking to someone about how you feel because feeling like you wish you hadn't been born isn't healthy.

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    Thats enough internet for you for one day.
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    (Original post by princesssarah)
    ...is this a joke?
    You have got to be kidding. Making new life is natural, its not child abuse. You're saying its wrong to reproduce as the child born has no choice but to live and experience life. I'm pretty sure this is just because you personally feel that you are 'sensitive' and can't handle life. I think its pretty stupid that you would rather wish nothing existed than to get help for your problems. Try talking to someone about how you feel because feeling like you wish you hadn't been born isn't healthy.

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    Genuinely these type of people are messed in their head, in my opinion they seriously need help!! Good to see there are people like you that can actually think straight.
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    (Original post by princesssarah)
    ...is this a joke?
    You have got to be kidding. Making new life is natural, its not child abuse. You're saying its wrong to reproduce as the child born has no choice but to live and experience life. I'm pretty sure this is just because you personally feel that you are 'sensitive' and can't handle life. I think its pretty stupid that you would rather wish nothing existed than to get help for your problems. Try talking to someone about how you feel because feeling like you wish you hadn't been born isn't healthy.

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    It's not a problem, it's a viewpoint. Let's face it, the average person spends a third of their lives asleep, would go through education for 12-15 years, then get a job (which they dont particularly enjoy) for the next 40 years and then chill in a care home for their last 10-20 years. Sure, you may meet the love of your life, go on holiday etc and enjoy some bits of life but would i want to go through all that? Nah, i think i'll pass.

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