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    Having used such a system myself there seems to some things absent from the proposal.

    Firstly... cans. Cans can be deposited in RVMs in other countries, what is the justification for their absence here?

    Secondly... how will the new system affect those people who currently are quite happy to recycle at home. Where they fill their recycle bins to be collected at intervals by the local authority, will they be reimbursed the 25/10p deposit through some other mechanism or simply have to accept paying what becomes a levy?
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    (Original post by Daffodilian)
    Why not scrap the machine idea altogether and instead use the money to implement a German style system covering everything form recycling at the home to how the recyled waste is managed afterwards instead of being sent abroad? The machines are an 'on the side' thing which does very little in the larger scheme of events.
    The machine allows the bottles to be re-used rather than recycled.
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    (Original post by G8D)
    Having used such a system myself there seems to some things absent from the proposal.

    Firstly... cans. Cans can be deposited in RVMs in other countries, what is the justification for their absence here?

    Secondly... how will the new system affect those people who currently are quite happy to recycle at home. Where they fill their recycle bins to be collected at intervals by the local authority, will they be reimbursed the 25/10p deposit through some other mechanism or simply have to accept paying what becomes a levy?
    I wasn't aware that cans could be deposited - they can go in in a second reading.

    Again, the RVM allows the bottles to be sterilised and re-used (this doesn't apply to cans however), so they will still have to return their bottles to the RVM to get their deposit back.
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    (Original post by O133)
    I wasn't aware that cans could be deposited - they can go in in a second reading.

    Again, the RVM allows the bottles to be sterilised and re-used (this doesn't apply to cans however), so they will still have to return their bottles to the RVM to get their deposit back.
    The PANT system in Norway takes glass/plastic bottles (of various shapes) and cans. I don't know if this is for reuse or recycling though.
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    (Original post by G8D)
    The PANT system in Norway takes glass/plastic bottles (of various shapes) and cans. I don't know if this is for reuse or recycling though.
    I doubt cans can be re-used because they cannot be re-sealed.
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    Yes- can we have pint bottles too?
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Yes- can we have pint bottles too?
    No, we don't have pints any more so we don't need them. (Not that I've ever seen a pint bottle.)
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    I fully support this.
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    What happens if I want to buy a bottle of cider? Even with the TSR Government's voodoo non-metric "metric pint", the bottle wouldn't be allowed to exist. The whole idea of having Government regulated bottles... it's way too Orwellian. It's a nay on that alone.

    It also sounds like a hell of a lot of government regulation just to get people to recycle more, like it would become very bloated, unmanageable and inefficient very quickly. I know for one that I'd find it a major hassle. I recycle at home by putting it into my green bin, I don't want to have to travel all the way over to a special machine to do something that I already do. That's going to cost me time and money, which means I probably won't do it, so then I'll be hit by extra costs when I'm already paying out of my arse for other things. Chances are this kind of measure is going to affect poorer consumers more than anyone else as well.
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    (Original post by Jarred)
    What happens if I want to buy a bottle of cider? Even with the TSR Government's voodoo non-metric "metric pint", the bottle wouldn't be allowed to exist. The whole idea of having Government regulated bottles... it's way too Orwellian. It's a nay on that alone.

    It also sounds like a hell of a lot of government regulation just to get people to recycle more, like it would become very bloated, unmanageable and inefficient very quickly. I know for one that I'd find it a major hassle. I recycle at home by putting it into my green bin, I don't want to have to travel all the way over to a special machine to do something that I already do. That's going to cost me time and money, which means I probably won't do it, so then I'll be hit by extra costs when I'm already paying out of my arse for other things. Chances are this kind of measure is going to affect poorer consumers more than anyone else as well.
    Unless you're brewing your own cider then you have to go to a shop to buy it. That is the benefit of having an RVM in every shop, you can do your recycling before you buy the next lot of shopping.
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    (Original post by O133)
    Unless you're brewing your own cider then you have to go to a shop to buy it. That is the benefit of having an RVM in every shop, you can do your recycling before you buy the next lot of shopping.
    But maybe I only go to the shop very occasionally for a big shop, and don't want a massive stack of glass bottles clogging up my small kitchen. Maybe I've been happily recycling my glass for the better part of ten years on my own and don't want to have to start receiving regressive levies for doing it my way now. Maybe carrying all of those bottles back to the shop would be a massive pain. Or perhaps I just buy everything at the local village shop which is too small to justify the existence of a machine and I'd have to catch a series of buses just to make it back to civilization. Better yet, I might get everything delivered because the shop is too far away.

    You see this is all very well and good for someone who doesn't live out in the sticks, but even in my area which is only slightly rural, I'd find this immensely challenging. The types of people who would echo that sentiment are more likely to be poor, old or disabled.

    Even when I was at uni this would have been annoying. It was hard enough taking 20 bottles down to the recycling bank 10 metres away from my room, you can't seriously expect me to take them all the way to the supermarket. It's a short walk - but not when you've got half of Venice Beach in your arms.

    And what about the concern on cider? It's bottled in pints.
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    (Original post by Jarred)
    But maybe I only go to the shop very occasionally for a big shop, and don't want a massive stack of glass bottles clogging up my small kitchen. Maybe I've been happily recycling my glass for the better part of ten years on my own and don't want to have to start receiving regressive levies for doing it my way now. Maybe carrying all of those bottles back to the shop would be a massive pain. Or perhaps I just buy everything at the local village shop which is too small to justify the existence of a machine and I'd have to catch a series of buses just to make it back to civilization. Better yet, I might get everything delivered because the shop is too far away.

    You see this is all very well and good for someone who doesn't live out in the sticks, but even in my area which is only slightly rural, I'd find this immensely challenging. The types of people who would echo that sentiment are more likely to be poor, old or disabled.

    Even when I was at uni this would have been annoying. It was hard enough taking 20 bottles down to the recycling bank 10 metres away from my room, you can't seriously expect me to take them all the way to the supermarket. It's a short walk - but not when you've got half of Venice Beach in your arms.

    And what about the concern on cider? It's bottled in pints.
    Even if it is easier to recycle the bottles, what happens next is that they are melted down to make new glass objects. With the deposit system they need only be sterilised and then they can be re-used, which saves a tonne of energy.

    Perhaps supermarkets could collect the bottles when they deliver shopping (put an RVM on the van).

    And cider? It's not sold in pints down the pub any more, so it doesn't need to be bottled in pints.
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    (Original post by O133)
    Even if it is easier to recycle the bottles, what happens next is that they are melted down to make new glass objects. With the deposit system they need only be sterilised and then they can be re-used, which saves a tonne of energy.

    Perhaps supermarkets could collect the bottles when they deliver shopping (put an RVM on the van).

    And cider? It's not sold in pints down the pub any more, so it doesn't need to be bottled in pints.
    Recycling's good enough. Feel free to introduce re-use centres, just don't make us all pay for when we don't use it.

    That'd only solve the problem for people who have their shopping delivered. It ignore the other problems, and also introduces new problems: The drivers in those delivery vans could do without having to collect and process everyone's bottles, it'd slow everything down which may lead to them having to send out more vans, which is an extra cost they could do without.

    As I said, it's sold in the Government's voodoo non-metric "metric pint"... for now at least.
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    (Original post by Jarred)
    Recycling's good enough. Feel free to introduce re-use centres, just don't make us all pay for when we don't use it.

    That'd only solve the problem for people who have their shopping delivered. It ignore the other problems, and also introduces new problems: The drivers in those delivery vans could do without having to collect and process everyone's bottles, it'd slow everything down which may lead to them having to send out more vans, which is an extra cost they could do without.

    As I said, it's sold in the Government's voodoo non-metric "metric pint"... for now at least.
    They manage in Germany, and the Germans aren't superhuman.

    It's sold in whatever size the manufacturer wants to sell it in, and if there is some standard size that I've not heard of it hasn't been changed by introducing the metric pint.
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    Aye, though it would be good if it could be extended to cans etc as already suggested.
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    Definitely aye!!


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    (Original post by O133)
    They manage in Germany, and the Germans aren't superhuman.

    It's sold in whatever size the manufacturer wants to sell it in, and if there is some standard size that I've not heard of it hasn't been changed by introducing the metric pint.
    I think my concerns are perfectly legitimate.

    And on your final point: in this bill, the manufacturers would be forced to sell their drinks in one of the Orwellian state approved bottles of 500ml, 750ml or 1000ml. Presumably, since metrication, a drinks manufacturer who used to sell a 568ml product would now want to sell a 600ml product so that it can be sold as a pint in the pub; but this bill would still make that option illegal. It applies to lagers too, many of which are sold in 330ml bottles, another banned volume.

    Also, how exactly do these bottles even work? Would every manufacturer be forced to use the same bottle design? Some sort of bland communal Government bottle? Or are they simply forced to use the same volumes? Because if it's the former then that's pretty crazy, the design of a bottle is an important part of the product's own identity and we shouldn't be restricting the way an organisation markets a product like that.
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    (Original post by Jarred)
    I think my concerns are perfectly legitimate.

    And on your final point: in this bill, the manufacturers would be forced to sell their drinks in one of the Orwellian state approved bottles of 500ml, 750ml or 1000ml. Presumably, since metrication, a drinks manufacturer who used to sell a 568ml product would now want to sell a 600ml product so that it can be sold as a pint in the pub; but this bill would still make that option illegal. It applies to lagers too, many of which are sold in 330ml bottles, another banned volume.

    Also, how exactly do these bottles even work? Would every manufacturer be forced to use the same bottle design? Some sort of bland communal Government bottle? Or are they simply forced to use the same volumes? Because if it's the former then that's pretty crazy, the design of a bottle is an important part of the product's own identity and we shouldn't be restricting the way an organisation markets a product like that.
    330 ml is an accepted size. I will probably add in a 600 ml option as your concern there is pretty legitimate.

    If all manufacturers use the same bottle shapes then the bottles can be reused by anybody. I should have paid more attention when I was in Germany last year but from what I remember all the bottles were the same shape. (I didn't go looking for 500 ml Coca Cola bottles or anything like that though so I don't know if they still use their classic design.)
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    (Original post by O133)
    330 ml is an accepted size. I will probably add in a 600 ml option as your concern there is pretty legitimate.

    If all manufacturers use the same bottle shapes then the bottles can be reused by anybody. I should have paid more attention when I was in Germany last year but from what I remember all the bottles were the same shape. (I didn't go looking for 500 ml Coca Cola bottles or anything like that though so I don't know if they still use their classic design.)
    330ml is not an accepted size for glass, only plastic, and I'll be damned if I'm drinking a Corona out of plastic That can easily be amended though.

    I could maybe consider not voting no on this if the entire regulatory aspect was done away with. Can't you just let manufacturers use and develop their own bottles, then charge the ransom on these, and when they're returned they get handed back to that same manufacturer who are then forced to re-use them? Get rid of the whole Government bottle thing and it's still a little bit undesirable for me but it's certainly an improvement.
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    (Original post by Jarred)
    330ml is not an accepted size for glass, only plastic, and I'll be damned if I'm drinking a Corona out of plastic That can easily be amended though.

    I could maybe consider not voting no on this if the entire regulatory aspect was done away with. Can't you just let manufacturers use and develop their own bottles, then charge the ransom on these, and when they're returned they get handed back to that same manufacturer who are then forced to re-use them? Get rid of the whole Government bottle thing and it's still a little bit undesirable for me but it's certainly an improvement.
    OK then, I didn't realise glass bottles went that small but I'll add it in come the second reading.
 
 
 
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