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Feminists want us to move towards dictatorship Watch

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    (Original post by Veni Vidi Fugi)
    Oh good, one example. I'd agree that this kind of feminist sits on the side of the political left in advocating state control, but that in no way necessarily constitutes dictatorship. Your definition of feminist is also laughably narrow. I consider myself a feminist in a broad sense, but I'm very politically liberal. By talking only about hardline feminist activism, you exclude the majority of self-defining feminists.

    More to the point, that's not an argument. You will only cease to look paranoid when you provide a full argument, rather than one anecdote twice.
    Increased state control is a move towards dictatorship. That is a fact. The more powerful the state becomes, the less free we are. If you look at societies on a sliding scale with libertarian societies at one end and dictatorships at the other, passing laws that restrict what businesses can sell takes a society closer towards the dictatorship end of the scale.

    As another poster rightly pointed out above, UK Feminista and Object are both large organisations in the UK feminist movement. They are not "hardline" when compared to other feminists, if anything they are moderates. That's how radical (compared to the rest of us) feminism has become.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    See what's really your problem here is that some feminists are authoritarian. By all means criticise that, I'm certainly against it. But it's not a criticism of feminism any more than opposing a ban on cigarettes is a criticism of doctors.
    Doctors are worryingly authoritarian at times, which is concerning. But they contribute an enormous service to society that nearly negates their views on banning certain products and activities.

    By contrast, banning things is a raison d'etre of feminism, and most feminists contribute nothing to society beyond calling for stuff to be banned.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    For a few years now feminists have been holding up their banners saying things like "I need feminism because science toys shouldn't be in the boys section" and "I need feminism because boardrooms and politics are full of men" etc.

    Feminism is trumpeted as the solution to these problems, but you'll almost never hear a feminist stating exactly how feminism will go about solving these problems.

    The reason they never say how is because the only way such views can be enforced is via a larger and more controlling state. Feminists are suspicious of the vast majority of humans who make judgements on ability rather than gender, and thus want state regulation to ensure they get their own way.

    Rather than leading to increased freedom for women, what feminism really leads to is bigger government and more normalisation of state control, taking us on the path towards authoritarianism and dictatorship.
    You are generalising. I consider myself a feminist, yet I would not go around saying things like "I need feminism because science toys shouldn't be in the boys section" or "I need feminism because boardrooms and politics are full of men", etc. Of course some feminists do these things, but not all.

    Do you have any evidence that most feminists do indeed want more state regulation, or are you just guessing? Also, there are alternative ways in which feminists can get change happening. For example, a large demand for more science-orinentated girls toys might encourage companies to make them.

    Your last bit is effectively a slippery slope.

    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Having studied feminism in detail, I can only conclude that feminists are authoritarians who wish to force their values upon us without our consent. That is the very definition of dictatorship.
    All feminists, or just some? Do you have any evidence to back up that claim?

    Also, a dictatorship is a type of government that is run by a dictator (one person with all the power). Any kind of government (democratic, undemocratic or otherwise) can impose values onto the population.

    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    The links between feminism and authoritarianism are plain to see, and it's scary how many young people support state intervention to give women unearned privileges.
    (Citation Needed)
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    Well what I'm talking about is my friends who would identify as feminists. I don't know if they are members of any organisations, you certainly don't have to be in order to be a feminist. I also know some who would purposely avoid joining many of the mainstream feminist groups because they simply don't agree with what those groups say and do.

    Another analogy - point me to the sensible, centre-leaning student organisations.
    Being a student and feminist is completely different.

    For a start society almost expects you to be a student, being a student is seen to many as a vital step in being successful later in life, the same can't be said for being a feminist.

    If you become a student there are so many countless reasons you could have joined university etc. and being a student isn't a belief. To be a feminist you would have to share a relatively similar view with other feminists, students would have completely no need to share the same view as other students as they are all unique.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    By contrast, banning things is a raison d'etre of feminism, and most feminists contribute nothing to society beyond calling for stuff to be banned.
    See now, this just proves you don't know anything about feminism beyond what you read in the Daily Mail.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Increased state control is a move towards dictatorship. That is a fact. The more powerful the state becomes, the less free we are. If you look at societies on a sliding scale with libertarian societies at one end and dictatorships at the other, passing laws that restrict what businesses can sell takes a society closer towards the dictatorship end of the scale.

    As another poster rightly pointed out above, UK Feminista and Object are both large organisations in the UK feminist movement. They are not "hardline" when compared to other feminists, if anything they are moderates. That's how radical (compared to the rest of us) feminism has become.

    I don't accept that an increase in state control is a move towards dictatorship. A strong democratic state will be more authoritarian, but less dictatorial, than a laissez-faire monarchy. Medieval polities were dictatorial but they didn't really have any great state control. You've conflated falsely two issues.

    We're defining feminist in different ways. The mainstream definition is 'one who seeks to redress the disadvantages faced by women'. Most people, by that definition, are feminists even if they don't self-identify as such. You're seeking to define feminism by institutions first, which is the wrong way round. Institutions are always more radical than those whom they represent, such as trade unions. There's no point representing your views in some pathetically insipid way, after all.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    But it's impossible to enforce them - my dad recently had trouble with an employee they believed was only hiring men and excluding more qualified women, but there was nothing he could do about it, because it's impossible to prove.
    It's very easy to prove. You look through applicant data at each stage of the process and see whether or not women are being unfairly excluded.

    If your father's business has no method of tracking who has applied to them, and no way of storing such data etc, then that's pretty poor and something they need to rectify.
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    These threads are getting more and more ridiculous as the days go by...
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    feminists have an anti male mindset and seek to emasculate men, and by doing this they are destroying the basic structures that are needed for a healthy and functioning society. shows how sinister they are.
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    I can only assume that the "moderate" feminists commenting here have never seen what other feminists get up to on Tumblr and Twitter. If they did, they might not be so insistent that most feminists are moderate really.
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    (Original post by JG1233)
    Being a student and feminist is completely different.

    For a start society almost expects you to be a student, being a student is seen to many as a vital step in being successful later in life, the same can't be said for being a feminist.

    If you become a student there are so many countless reasons you could have joined university etc. and being a student isn't a belief. To be a feminist you would have to share a relatively similar view with other feminists, students would have completely no need to share the same view as other students as they are all unique.
    To be a feminist, the only view you need to have is that society is sexist and that is a bad thing that you want to change. That's it. The number of differing views are so many that it's quite frankly foolish to even talk about the views of feminists. It's like talking about the views of 'the left wing' or some other huge and varied group.


    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    It's very easy to prove. You look through applicant data at each stage of the process and see whether or not women are being unfairly excluded.

    If your father's business has no method of tracking who has applied to them, and no way of storing such data etc, then that's pretty poor and something they need to rectify.
    Yes but the problem is that job applications are to some degree subjective. Otherwise we'd just use computers to allocate jobs. If you confront someone about sexist hiring, they can simply say 'they performed worse at interview' or something equally dismissive. And what happens if sexism occurs in hiring at the top level? Then there's essentially no-one to go over their heads.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    I can only assume that the "moderate" feminists commenting here have never seen what other feminists get up to on Tumblr and Twitter. If they did, they might not be so insistent that most feminists are moderate really.
    How do you know that Tumblr/Twitter feminists are the majority?
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    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    How do you know that Tumblr/Twitter feminists are the majority?
    Because that confirms his pre-existing suspicions.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    Because that confirms his pre-existing suspicions.
    Exactly.

    I think I smell a troll.
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    The strongest evidence yet that the logical conclusion of feminist state intervention is dictatorship. An "expert panel" :rolleyes: at the Nordic Council wants to ban criticism of feminism in the five Nordic countries. They also group those who challenge radical feminism in with Anders Breivik. Horrifying.

    http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/03...dic-countries/

    In the Nordic countries, feminism is far more ingrained in the state than it is here, and feminists play a far bigger role in the decision-making process. If this is what it leads to, then we must do everything we can to ensure that feminists get absolutely nowhere near our government.

    The people on here who claim they oppose such authoritarianism while still calling themselves feminists need to disown the label and start calling themselves something else, such as equalists. They cannot continue to associate themselves with such radical authoritarianism.
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    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    Exactly.

    I think I smell a troll.
    I suspected so as well, but then there are plenty of people who do believe this stuff.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Having studied feminism in detail
    lmao
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    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    How do you know that Tumblr/Twitter feminists are the majority?
    Their voices shout loudest. If there are so many moderate feminists then you need to make more of an effort to disown these loons rather than attacking those like me who view men and women as equal, but don't believe that there should be special privileges for women.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    The strongest evidence yet that the logical conclusion of feminist state intervention is dictatorship. An "expert panel" :rolleyes: at the Nordic Council wants to ban criticism of feminism in the five Nordic countries. They also group those who challenge radical feminism in with Anders Breivik. Horrifying.

    http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/03...dic-countries/

    In the Nordic countries, feminism is far more ingrained in the state than it is here, and feminists play a far bigger role in the decision-making process. If this is what it leads to, then we must do everything we can to ensure that feminists get absolutely nowhere near our government.

    The people on here who claim they oppose such authoritarianism while still calling themselves feminists need to disown the label and start calling themselves something else, such as equalists. They cannot continue to associate themselves with such radical authoritarianism.
    If that's the strongest evidence, then it seems your claim isn't very well founded. :teehee:

    Also, I love how you'reusing Nordic countries as a bad example. 'Oh no, what if we were like Scandinavia, where people are richer, healthier and more equal. Oh God, save us!'
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Their voices shout loudest. If there are so many moderate feminists then you need to make more of an effort to disown these loons rather than attacking those like me who view men and women as equal, but don't believe that there should be special privileges for women.
    Ah. That would explain why all Muslims are terrorists. :facepalm:
 
 
 
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