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      (Original post by James222)
      The star of david has nothing to do with the Holocaust and jews were forced to wear it long before that. As explained its technically difficult to do and many take aways dont feel safe promoting they are owned by muslims.

      Gelatine always comes from animals it comes from the Bone I believe and vegetarians are opposed to eating meat as opposed to by products from animal bones.
      I was using it as an example, I'm aware of the meaning behind the Star of David, I'm a Jew after all, I just didn't like your, frankly stupid, comparison of being forced to wear a religious symbol and making it law to display what many already do.
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      (Original post by Qwertish)
      Hindus aren't vegetarian...


      We probably should, yes.


      Why should I have to eat meat without knowing where it has come from and how it was killed?


      Hardly. It's just about saying "this is how this meat was killed" and then the consumers can decide if they want to eat it or not.
      well I guess the 10 hindus at my school form class would disagree with you.
      No one is forcing you to eat meat without knowing where it comes from, as consumer you can shop at stores that do tell you. In my opinion you should not have the right to demand everyone and every single restaurant in the UK conform to your standard of information cater to your query .

      no its abit more than that

      (Original post by tehFrance)
      I was using it as an example, I'm aware of the meaning behind the Star of David, I'm a Jew after all, I just didn't like your, frankly stupid, comparison of being forced to wear a religious symbol and making it law to display what many already do.
      yes I misworded my orginal post didnt mean to imply that. I think its a very real issue and drip drip effect
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      (Original post by James222)
      well I guess the 10 hindus at my school form class would disagree with you.
      There is a subset of Hindus which are vegetarian, but Hindus in general are not vegetarian. This Hindu and most of the population of India will tell you that.

      I can go into details of the caste system and traditional reasons why certain Hindus eat meat and certain Hindus don't, but it's rather pointless and boring.

      (Original post by James222)
      No one is forcing you to eat meat without knowing where it comes from, as consumer you can shop at stores that do tell you. In my opinion you should not have the right to demand everyone and every single restaurant in the UK conform to your standard of information cater to your query.
      Why?

      We force shops to show an ingredients list, weight, storage instructions, description of the food, GM stuff, place of origin, and use by date.

      It's all about providing consumers with the information they need to make an informed decision.
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      (Original post by tehFrance)
      Personally I care as a Jew and it's my duty to uphold these... :yawn::lol: I don't care and I prefer Halal rather than Kosher food, maybe I should become a Muslim? :lol:

      ----

      Also I thought my suggestions had corrected the bill, clearly not;
      1.3 and 2.2, the 'and/or' should be 'or' only, you can't have Kosher and Halal as one although as a Muslim you can eat Kosher just Jews can't eat Halal
      Sorry, that post wasn't clear. What I meant was there is no reason why a non-Jew/Muslim would care whether prayers were said over it. Apparently Hindus may have a problem with this, although Qwertish appears to disagree.
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      (Original post by Qwertish)
      There is a subset of Hindus which are vegetarian, but Hindus in general are not vegetarian. This Hindu and most of the population of India will tell you that.

      I can go into details of the caste system and traditional reasons why certain Hindus eat meat and certain Hindus don't, but it's rather pointless and boring.


      Why?

      We force shops to show an ingredients list, weight, storage instructions, description of the food, GM stuff, place of origin, and use by date.

      It's all about providing consumers with the information they need to make an informed decision.
      do we show GM stuff and stuff like use by date is important. if something has meat how its been killed is irrelevant, halal meat is a fraction of the total meat in the UK and entire story is full of dog whistle politics.
      we cant cater to every single niche, people that bothered by it is their duty to go and research not the state.
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      (Original post by James222)
      do we show GM stuff and stuff like use by date is important. if something has meat how its been killed is irrelevant, halal meat is a fraction of the total meat in the UK and entire story is full of dog whistle politics.
      we cant cater to every single niche, people that bothered by it is their duty to go and research not the state.
      The thing is, halal meat is a not insignificant fraction of the total meat, and it is not uncommon to eat it without knowing. Not that that's a problem, and I agree that the method of killing is not important unless it explicitly has to be halal/kosher. But I agree, soon it'll be compulsory to label with what machine the fruit and veg were picked.
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      I don't support the bill as I believe the animals suffer through halal and kosher slaughter no more than in conventional slaughter.

      I would if it was widened to include all meat and fish, with a detailed description of how the animal was slaughtered, similar to cigarette packet warnings...
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      (Original post by O133)
      The thing is, halal meat is a not insignificant fraction of the total meat, and it is not uncommon to eat it without knowing. Not that that's a problem, and I agree that the method of killing is not important unless it explicitly has to be halal/kosher. But I agree, soon it'll be compulsory to label with what machine the fruit and veg were picked.
      Ill post the statistics later but its a very small fraction and unstunned halal meat is even smaller. If a shop claims to sell non halal meat and then sells halal that is already illegal
      Was the farm powered by solar panels or fossil fuels this road is never ending
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        (Original post by redferry)
        I don't support the bill as I believe the animals suffer through halal and kosher slaughter no more than in conventional slaughter.

        I would if it was widened to include all meat and fish, with a detailed description of how the animal was slaughtered, similar to cigarette packet warnings...
        This is about detailing whether or not a meat is halal or kosher through prayer, this isn't about the slaughter of animals (not really), as for fish, all are automatically halal and it's more restricted within Judaism.
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        (Original post by tehFrance)
        This is about detailing whether or not a meat is halal or kosher through prayer, this isn't about the slaughter of animals (not really), as for fish, all are automatically halal and it's more restricted within Judaism.
        I don't think it needs to be known whether someone said a prayer over it, I think its pandering to the people who truly care least about this issue and are just using Judaism/Hinduism as a thin veil to cover anti Islamic sentiment.
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          (Original post by redferry)
          I don't think it needs to be known whether someone said a prayer over it, I think its pandering to the people who truly care least about this issue and are just using Judaism/Hinduism as a thin veil to cover anti Islamic sentiment.
          What are you on about, it's a requirement within Islam to say a prayer too otherwise it's not halal. So in what way is this a thin veil to cover anti-Islamic sentiment?
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          (Original post by tehFrance)
          What are you on about, it's a requirement within Islam to say a prayer too otherwise it's not halal. So in what way is this a thin veil to cover anti-Islamic sentiment?
          That's not the reason this has come about though is it? Its not Muslims asking for it to be labeled in the main but non Muslims.
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            (Original post by redferry)
            That's not the reason this has come about though is it? Its not Muslims asking for it to be labeled in the main but non Muslims.
            I'm unaware of who the author is, however there are a few religious groups within the Opposition where there were no objections to the bill, I supported it due to it making clear what's kosher which is needed and I feel that it'll be easier for Muslims to locate halal foods within chains that don't currently label products as such likewise they don't label products kosher.
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            (Original post by redferry)
            That's not the reason this has come about though is it? Its not Muslims asking for it to be labeled in the main but non Muslims.
            This has benefits for all of society, jews and muslims will be able to locate food which they can consume more easily at mainstream supermarkets. Other consumers (including hindus) can make a conscious choice about whether they want to consume it or not.
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            (Original post by James222)
            do we show GM stuff and stuff like use by date is important. if something has meat how its been killed is irrelevant, halal meat is a fraction of the total meat in the UK and entire story is full of dog whistle politics.
            we cant cater to every single niche, people that bothered by it is their duty to go and research not the state.
            GM isn't important. There are no adverse health effects with GM food. We label it because some people don't want to eat it.

            (Original post by redferry)
            That's not the reason this has come about though is it? Its not Muslims asking for it to be labeled in the main but non Muslims.
            That's hardly relevant. There are some religions which require that the meat hasn't been blessed in the name of another God. There are some people who just don't want to eat religiously killed meat for whatever reasons. These people have a right to know in order to make an informed decision.
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            (Original post by Qwertish)
            GM isn't important. There are no adverse health effects with GM food. We label it because some people don't want to eat it.
            GM food doesn't have to be labeled by law??

            That's hardly relevant. There are some religions which require that the meat hasn't been blessed in the name of another God. There are some people who just don't want to eat religiously killed meat for whatever reasons. These people have a right to know in order to make an informed decision.
            I see your point but I can't help but feel that it could mean people with islamophoboc tendancies/ misconceptions over halal slaughter stop using certain chains, dissuading them from using halal and limiting eating options for a sognificant section of the population.
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            (Original post by redferry)
            GM food doesn't have to be labeled by law??
            Under the food and feed regulation, labelling is required for all food and feed products derived from GM sources, regardless of the presence of detectable novel genetic material in the final product and regardless of the quantity of intentionally used GM ingredient present.
            http://www.food.gov.uk/business-indu...e#.U7xU2vldVrk

            Yes it does.

            (Original post by redferry)
            I see your point but I can't help but feel that it could mean people with islamophoboc tendancies/ misconceptions over halal slaughter stop using certain chains, dissuading them from using halal and limiting eating options for a sognificant section of the population.
            It might do, but if they want to stop using certain chains because they're bigoted that's their problem. Additionally, you're saying that we should basically trick these people into eating this stuff they're not comfortable with simply by not labelling it.
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            (Original post by Qwertish)
            http://www.food.gov.uk/business-indu...e#.U7xU2vldVrk

            Yes it does.


            It might do, but if they want to stop using certain chains because they're bigoted that's their problem. Additionally, you're saying that we should basically trick these people into eating this stuff they're not comfortable with simply by not labelling it.
            Well, they can always just ask like us veggies/sustainable meat eaters

            I'd be more supportive if the bill was more encompassing of better food labeling in general.
            These days everything else seems to be going the other way - palm oil can just be labeled as vegetable oil as of three years ago.
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            (Original post by redferry)
            Well, they can always just ask like us veggies/sustainable meat eaters

            I'd be more supportive if the bill was more encompassing of better food labeling in general.
            These days everything else seems to be going the other way - palm oil can just be labeled as vegetable oil as of three years ago.
            But it's not always obvious and sometimes even the staff won't know if it's brought in from an outside supplier. With vegetarian food it's generally fairly straightforward as to what's okay and what isn't.

            I would agree with you on the point of better labelling overall.
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            (Original post by Qwertish)
            But it's not always obvious and sometimes even the staff won't know if it's brought in from an outside supplier. With vegetarian food it's generally fairly straightforward as to what's okay and what isn't.

            I would agree with you on the point of better labelling overall.
            You'd be surprised at how difficult it is to find out things like how fish and meat are sourced.

            I'm just concerned that making labeling compulsory will lead to less eating choices for Muslims. Although to be honest really I should be unfazed as maybe it would mean less people eating meat.
           
           
           
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