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Should English unis become market places from 2015? Watch

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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    Is this for real or just speculation at moment ?

    I think a removal of the cap without reforming the fees structure will be a disaster which of course I suppose UK being UK will be what will happen
    It is the government's intention.

    It probably will not make a lot of difference. There is little sign that universities that recruit students with lower grades are now recruiting up to their caps. One of Willetts lesser remarked achievements seems to have been to get government out of the business of determining how many students go where. By removing the cap in stages rather than all in one go, it has released pressure from the system.

    The question is whether any HE minister will be willing to tackle the issue of medicine. There is this enormous pent up demand from people with stratospheric A level results for what is effectively a job for life. This is more or less unique to the UK. In the rest of the world, recruitment for medical degrees and the medical job market works like the rest of the economy.
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    (Original post by clh_hilary)
    I think it is for real but this is not telling the whole story - the cap, as I understand, is lifted only for higher performers, ie people who get either ABB or AAB. So not people who get FFF or EEE or DDD.

    So instead of having everybody into universities, second-tier universities will get everybody whilst leaving the ex-polies for the most part starved to death.
    That is this year. From 2015 the cap is lifted entirely.

    Your analysis of the effects is too simplistic. The universities that are hit are those that lack USPs. Those ex-Polys that have kept close to their roots offering vocational courses not offered elsewhere will do very well from the changes because they will be able to expand those courses. Applicants can't "trade up" because there is no up for that course. Other universities have other USPs. The ones that will lose out are those offering the same courses as the better university down the road. This is a trend we have seen for the last three years and it will only continue.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    It is the government's intention.

    It probably will not make a lot of difference. There is little sign that universities that recruit students with lower grades are now recruiting up to their caps. One of Willetts lesser remarked achievements seems to have been to get government out of the business of determining how many students go where. By removing the cap in stages rather than all in one go, it has released pressure from the system.

    The question is whether any HE minister will be willing to tackle the issue of medicine. There is this enormous pent up demand from people with stratospheric A level results for what is effectively a job for life. This is more or less unique to the UK. In the rest of the world, recruitment for medical degrees and the medical job market works like the rest of the economy.
    The issue is you have to increase post graduate training places if you increase the number of places for medicine. Training doctors is very expensive and letting graduates go to waste due to a lack of training places would be an expensive waste of public money.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    That is this year. From 2015 the cap is lifted entirely.

    Your analysis of the effects is too simplistic. The universities that are hit are those that lack USPs. Those ex-Polys that have kept close to their roots offering vocational courses not offered elsewhere will do very well from the changes because they will be able to expand those courses. Applicants can't "trade up" because there is no up for that course. Other universities have other USPs. The ones that will lose out are those offering the same courses as the better university down the road. This is a trend we have seen for the last three years and it will only continue.
    But top universities will not increase their number of students randomly.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    The issue is you have to increase post graduate training places if you increase the number of places for medicine. Training doctors is very expensive and letting graduates go to waste due to a lack of training places would be an expensive waste of public money.
    That is argument of the Commissar for Tractor Production down the ages.

    The cost of training is nowhere near as high as the scarcity premium on doctors' salaries we pay.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    That is argument of the Commissar for Tractor Production down the ages.

    The cost of training is nowhere near as high as the scarcity premium on doctors' salaries we pay.
    Doctors' salaries in the NHS are comparable to other developed countries, Britain also imports a lot of doctors so there is no scarcity.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    It is the government's intention.

    It probably will not make a lot of difference. There is little sign that universities that recruit students with lower grades are now recruiting up to their caps. One of Willetts lesser remarked achievements seems to have been to get government out of the business of determining how many students go where. By removing the cap in stages rather than all in one go, it has released pressure from the system.

    The question is whether any HE minister will be willing to tackle the issue of medicine. There is this enormous pent up demand from people with stratospheric A level results for what is effectively a job for life. This is more or less unique to the UK. In the rest of the world, recruitment for medical degrees and the medical job market works like the rest of the economy.

    I don't know, in theory that sounds ok but reality is our universities are run by unions who have a political agenda and that means make as much money as they can for their union cronies at the expense of us - the students.

    I reckon this will mean standards will drop even more as the better universities will lower grades albeit surreptitiously

    I'm witnessing this at the place I am targeting which has zero history in inflating student no's for profit but the signs are there. They have suddenly made up a few ' foundation ' courses and that means stuffing the place with under qualified, illiterate people

    I suppose unions benefiting will bring a smile to your face ?
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    I don't know, in theory that sounds ok but reality is our universities are run by unions who have a political agenda and that means make as much money as they can for their union cronies at the expense of us - the students.

    I reckon this will mean standards will drop even more as the better universities will lower grades albeit surreptitiously

    I'm witnessing this at the place I am targeting which has zero history in inflating student no's for profit but the signs are there. They have suddenly made up a few ' foundation ' courses and that means stuffing the place with under qualified, illiterate people

    I suppose unions benefiting will bring a smile to your face ?
    You really do occupy a different planet don't you.

    To suggest that the UCU has any influence over universities is laughable. The organisation is a Marxist laughing stock even amongst its members. It is run by people stuck in a 1970s timewarp.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    You really do occupy a different planet don't you.

    To suggest that the UCU has any influence over universities is laughable. The organisation is a Marxist laughing stock even amongst its members. It is run by people stuck in a 1970s timewarp.
    I'm sorry I disagree.

    By the way, what do you do for a living ? You seem to always have had loads of free time, are you a UB40 ?
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    I'm sorry I disagree.

    By the way, what do you do for a living ? You seem to always have had loads of free time, are you a UB40 ?
    I am a practising solicitor and you will see that I only comment before or after work when I am doing other things on the computer.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I am a practising solicitor and you will see that I only comment before or after work when I am doing other things on the computer.
    OK, If you insist
 
 
 
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